Florida

[loveofourlord]

This is exactly the issue I had with the whole, "lets fudge the data." govenors, they can fudge how many sick or dead, but they can't fudge the hospital capacity,

 

[wing2000]

Florida

Given that this President and his Administration have been on the wrong side of every decision concerning COVID-19 from Day 1, now they are prepared to play a high stakes version of "Russian roulette" with the nation's children!

Apparently the President is prepared to coerce Governors into reopening the schools - irrespective of the CDC guidelines, the 3 million testing positive, 50,000+ new cases daily, over 130,000 pandemic deaths and state healthcare systems on the verge of being overwhelmed!

Without adequate testing to ensure that each child is not asymptomatic, if the pandemic is surging in most states after just 2 holiday weekends and the relaxation of some "lockdown" rules, the examples provided by the nation's meat packing plants and nursing homes are harbingers of things to come when large numbers of individuals are placed indoors in a confined space for extended periods of time!

This President and his Administration have effectively "thrown-in-the-towel" and given up on combating the pandemic - now the American public is supposed to accept the White House's new, improved version of history whereby COVID-19 is nothing more than another of life's inconveniences and they are prepared to jeopardize the health of the nation's children and their families to prove their point!

...from today:
In morning tweets, Trump called the guidelines “very tough & expensive” as he continued to pressure local school districts to open in the fall, even as many states are facing a surge in coronavirus cases.

“While they want them open, they are asking schools to do very impractical things,” Trump said of CDC officials. “ I will be meeting with them!!!”

...later at the COVID task force briefing VP Pence:

“We don’t want the guidance from CDC to be a reason why schools don’t open,” Pence said. “I think that every American, every American knows that we can safely reopen our schools. … We want, as the president said this morning, to make sure that what we’re doing doesn’t stand in the way of doing that.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-administration-officials-downplay-guidance-from-health-experts-as-they-push-to-reopen-schools/2020/07/08/236a6c5e-c13b-11ea-b178-bb7b05b94af1_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-banner-main_trumpcdc-149p:homepage/story-ans&itid=hp_hp-banner-main_trumpcdc-149p:homepage/story-ans

There you have it....we can't be bothered to do the necessary work required to make our schools safe for children.
.

 

[FireDragon76]

Florida

Given that this President and his Administration have been on the wrong side of every decision concerning COVID-19 from Day 1, now they are prepared to play a high stakes version of "Russian roulette" with the nation's children!

Apparently the President is prepared to "pressure" Governors into reopening the schools - irrespective of the CDC guidelines, the 3 million testing positive, 50,000+ new cases daily, over 130,000 pandemic deaths and state healthcare systems on the verge of being overwhelmed!

Without adequate testing to ensure that each child is not asymptomatic, if the pandemic is surging in most states after just 2 holiday weekends and the relaxation of some "lockdown" rules, the examples provided by the nation's meat packing plants and nursing homes are harbingers of things to come when large numbers of individuals are placed indoors in a confined space for extended periods of time!

This President and his Administration have effectively "thrown-in-the-towel" and given up on combating the pandemic - now the American public is supposed to accept the White House's new, improved version of history whereby COVID-19 is nothing more than another of life's inconveniences using the nation's children and their families to prove their point!

And people wonder why there are so many riots... could it be because we have widespread leadership that simply lacks empathy and connection with peoples actual experiences?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

There you have it....we can't be bothered to do the necessary work required to make our schools safe for children.

There you have it like so many things plain as day. And still unrecognized.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Do you not see the irony of these two sentences?

Sure, protest are one potential source of new infections. But they certainly are not the only one - or even the principle contributor as you seem to be suggesting in several posts.

No, I don't see any irony, because a massive gathering with thousands of people was something that would've been labelled "very transmissible event" only a week or two prior if it was in a different context. Even a backyard, outdoor, gathering of 10-15 people would've been considered "irresponsible and dangerous".

There is a political narrative at play, and I think we're all well aware of what it is.

In the coverage of these protests, where certain outlets have attempted to defend the protests and say they weren't risky (and the covid spikes were just the result of other things)...

If you were to swap out "George Floyd Protest" with "Outdoor Ted Nugent Concert" (even if they were all wearing masks), you'd see very different coverage.

If outdoor transmission is enough of a risk factor that governors had to shut down beaches, then protests would have the same carry the same risk factor.


The fact of the matter is, there are narratives...
The far-right: "It's all the protests, had nothing to do with re-opening"
The far-left: "The effect of the protests were negligible, it's mostly the re openings"


If you cut through all of the "Fox vs. CNN" tribalism (which really comes down to a "I wanna show how much I'm pro-cop" vs. "I wanna show how woke I am" argument), and just look at the things we know about the virus, combined with the timing of the spikes, it's reasonable to say that the protests had a bigger hand in the upticks than reopenings did.

While there were small upticks (which most governors accounted for) post-phase 1 reopenings (most governors were pretty open about the fact that that would be trade off), and knowing what the incubation time is, and knowing that many, if not most of the those positive tests in the uptick are a much younger age group, it makes sense.

That's why we're seeing data trends like this:

Combined with increased testing, it makes sense we're seeing more positive cases, especially among people under 40.

When testing capacity was limited, only those showing severe symptoms were getting the test, and those with simply mild symptoms were being told to stay home and asymptomatic people were getting tested at all.

Now many states have "pop-up testing sites" where people can go get a test in a grocery store parking lot whether they have symptoms, or if they're just simply curious.

Fun fact, I actually paid to have an antibody test done at a local hospital that was offering that test for $160 bucks if you want to have it done...got my results back this morning, apparently I've already had it. I was simply curious because back in early February, I had what I thought was a mild flu a week after attending a live indoor event at Wolstein Center in Cleveland, and at the time, just thought it was odd because I'd always had good luck with not getting the flu when I've gotten the flu shot in October of each year. (we didn't really know much about Covid at the time or think anything of it because we were still hearing that the US wasn't at risk), so out of curiosity, I got the test done.

Now with more testing readily available, people with only mild symptoms (which would be me back in early Feb, achy and a cough for 3 days) or no symptoms at all can get tested when that wasn't happening before.

 

[wing2000]

There is a political narrative at play, and I think we're all well aware of what it is.

There are multiple narratives. There are multiple reasons for the spread...but they all have one thing in common: An individual decided to participate in an activity that is irresponsible.

However, I see you are more interested in debating a media narrative and specifically highlighting protesters. I think that's pretty clear to any one....CNN will cover one angle, FOX another. I can't really comment further as I don't watch either.

 

[wing2000]

Fun fact, I actually paid to have an antibody test done at a local hospital that was offering that test for $160 bucks if you want to have it done...got my results back this morning, apparently I've already had it. I was simply curious because back in early February, I had what I thought was a mild flu a week after attending a live indoor event at Wolstein Center in Cleveland, and at the time, just thought it was odd because I'd always had good luck with not getting the flu when I've gotten the flu shot in October of each year. (we didn't really know much about Covid at the time or think anything of it because we were still hearing that the US wasn't at risk), so out of curiosity, I got the test done.

....one less doubt to deal with...congrats.

 

[hedrick]

....one less doubt to deal with...congrats.

In an area with a fairly low prevalence, there’s a reasonably high chance of false positives. The math is weird. See CDC warns antibody testing still too inaccurate to use for coronavirus-related policy decisions

 

[FireDragon76]

No, I don't see any irony, because a massive gathering with thousands of people was something that would've been labelled "very transmissible event" only a week or two prior if it was in a different context. Even a backyard, outdoor, gathering of 10-15 people would've been considered "irresponsible and dangerous".

There is a political narrative at play, and I think we're all well aware of what it is.

In the coverage of these protests, where certain outlets have attempted to defend the protests and say they weren't risky (and the covid spikes were just the result of other things)...

If you were to swap out "George Floyd Protest" with "Outdoor Ted Nugent Concert" (even if they were all wearing masks), you'd see very different coverage.

If outdoor transmission is enough of a risk factor that governors had to shut down beaches, then protests would have the same carry the same risk factor.


The fact of the matter is, there are narratives...
The far-right: "It's all the protests, had nothing to do with re-opening"
The far-left: "The effect of the protests were negligible, it's mostly the re openings"


If you cut through all of the "Fox vs. CNN" tribalism (which really comes down to a "I wanna show how much I'm pro-cop" vs. "I wanna show how woke I am" argument), and just look at the things we know about the virus, combined with the timing of the spikes, it's reasonable to say that the protests had a bigger hand in the upticks than reopenings did.

While there were small upticks (which most governors accounted for) post-phase 1 reopenings (most governors were pretty open about the fact that that would be trade off), and knowing what the incubation time is, and knowing that many, if not most of the those positive tests in the uptick are a much younger age group, it makes sense.

That's why we're seeing data trends like this:
View attachment 280538

Combined with increased testing, it makes sense we're seeing more positive cases, especially among people under 40.

When testing capacity was limited, only those showing severe symptoms were getting the test, and those with simply mild symptoms were being told to stay home and asymptomatic people were getting tested at all.

Now many states have "pop-up testing sites" where people can go get a test in a grocery store parking lot whether they have symptoms, or if they're just simply curious.

Fun fact, I actually paid to have an antibody test done at a local hospital that was offering that test for $160 bucks if you want to have it done...got my results back this morning, apparently I've already had it. I was simply curious because back in early February, I had what I thought was a mild flu a week after attending a live indoor event at Wolstein Center in Cleveland, and at the time, just thought it was odd because I'd always had good luck with not getting the flu when I've gotten the flu shot in October of each year. (we didn't really know much about Covid at the time or think anything of it because we were still hearing that the US wasn't at risk), so out of curiosity, I got the test done.

Now with more testing readily available, people with only mild symptoms (which would be me back in early Feb, achy and a cough for 3 days) or no symptoms at all can get tested when that wasn't happening before.

No mainstream news outlet that I am aware of has linked the protests to significant COVID-19 outbreaks. All of them are reporting it's due to people going to bars and house parties, which plays out in my own experience as well here in Florida.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

....one less doubt to deal with...congrats.

There's no guarantee, there is a margin of error. However, the hospital I had it done at actually takes two samples, does one in their own lab, and then sends the other off to a separate independent lab to try to eliminate the concept of "lab error"

 

[ThatRobGuy]

No mainstream news outlet that I am aware of has linked the protests to significant COVID-19 outbreaks. All of them are reporting it's due to people going to bars and house parties, which plays out in my own experience as well here in Florida.

So are they inaccurate on the incubation period then? People (in many states) have been breaking protocols and going to parties secretly for a while...and had been going to restaurants and bars for nearly a month. Why would the uptick start 1-2 weeks after the protests.


Unless, they were contracting it at the protests, and then unknowingly spreading it in restaurants, parties, and, bars a few days after having participated...that's a distinct a possibility.

 

[FireDragon76]

So are they inaccurate on the incubation period then? People (in many states) have been breaking protocols and going to parties secretly for a while...and had been going to restaurants and bars for nearly a month. Why would the uptick start 1-2 weeks after the protests.

It can take some time for people to report symptoms of COVID-19

Unless, they were contracting it at the protests, and then unknowingly spreading it in restaurants, parties, and, bars a few days after having participated...that's a distinct a possibility.

The anecdotal reports I have heard of people spreading COVID-19 into workplaces are all white people who are not the protesting types.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

The anecdotal reports I have heard of people spreading COVID-19 into workplaces are all white people who are not the protesting types.

...but their kids may be.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...k-lives-matter-how-far-will-their-support-go/

So it's possible that they contracted at the protests, and then brought the virus home to their parents who "aren't the protesting types"

 

[essentialsaltes]

Florida reports over 15,000 COVID-19 cases in single-day record

Florida reported a record increase of more than 15,000 new cases of COVID-19 in a single day on Sunday as the growing outbreak forces state authorities to close some businesses and beaches.

If Florida were a country, it would rank fourth in the world for the most new cases a day behind the United States, Brazil and India.

Its daily increases have already surpassed the highest daily tally reported by any European country during the height of the pandemic there. Florida has also broken New York State’s record of 12,847 new cases on April 10 when it was the epicenter of the U.S. outbreak.

 

[FreeinChrist]

My goodness but that is horrible.

 

[hedrick]

Also, deaths are starting to go up, in Florida and nationally. It's too early to know whether it's a spike or the start of a rise that will match cases and hospitalization. The same pattern is present in Arizona and Texas. I had hoped that California's cases wouldn't be matched by hospitalization and death, but those are starting to look like the other states.

Aside from the people infected, I'm concerned that this is going to make it impossible to open schools. But without schools we can't fully open the economy, and it's also likely that some students' education and development won't recover. We absolutely have to open schools in Sept. But what if we can't?

 

[loveofourlord]

Florida reports over 15,000 COVID-19 cases in single-day record

Florida reported a record increase of more than 15,000 new cases of COVID-19 in a single day on Sunday as the growing outbreak forces state authorities to close some businesses and beaches.

If Florida were a country, it would rank fourth in the world for the most new cases a day behind the United States, Brazil and India.

Its daily increases have already surpassed the highest daily tally reported by any European country during the height of the pandemic there. Florida has also broken New York State’s record of 12,847 new cases on April 10 when it was the epicenter of the U.S. outbreak.

what caused it? Sunday is usually the worst day, hopefully it's just a blip, I mean were probably going to be getting that in a few weeks, testing permiting but still.

 

[loveofourlord]

Also, deaths are starting to go up, in Florida and nationally. It's too early to know whether it's a spike or the start of a rise that will match cases and hospitalization. The same pattern is present in Arizona and Texas. I had hoped that California's cases wouldn't be matched by hospitalization and death, but those are starting to look like the other states.

Aside from the people infected, I'm concerned that this is going to make it impossible to open schools. But without schools we can't fully open the economy, and it's also likely that some students' education and development won't recover. We absolutely have to open schools in Sept. But what if we can't?

schools have ZERO buisness opening up right now, kids are not guiniepigs. Least in person.

 

[FireDragon76]

...but their kids may be.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...k-lives-matter-how-far-will-their-support-go/

So it's possible that they contracted at the protests, and then brought the virus home to their parents who "aren't the protesting types"

The demographic spreading COVID-19 is too young to have children that go to school, for the most part.

 

[wing2000]

My wife's extended family in the Miami and Houston partied like Covid was over.....and now many are testing positive. In one case, a twenty-something son passed Covid to his mid sixties father who is now in the ICU at Miami hospital.

IMO, people in general let their guard down, wanted to socialize and got lured into thinking the virus was past. And of course, here in the US we are receiving mixed messages from our political leaders from the very start.