Florida next?

uberd00b

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But the judges decision at Dover was that ID was just creationism-lite, wouldn't that make it illegal to put it on the school curriculum?

(I think I might be missing something here, either in this school boards moves or in the original Dover decision.)
 
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TheOutsider

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But the judges decision at Dover was that ID was just creationism-lite, wouldn't that make it illegal to put it on the school curriculum?

(I think I might be missing something here, either in this school boards moves or in the original Dover decision.)
Dover only made it illegal in Pennsylvania. There would have to be a case taken to the Supreme Court (like Edwards v. Aguillard) for it to be illegal in the entire United States. Dover did set up a good legal precedent though.

BTW, IANAL.
 
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uberd00b

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Dover only made it illegal in Pennsylvania. There would have to be a case taken to the Supreme Court (like Edwards v. Aguillard) for it to be illegal in the entire United States. Dover did set up a good legal precedent though.

BTW, IANAL.
Ah thanks that's what I was missing.

Well, I hope they have to fend off another lawsuit, the last one was just so outstandingly embarrassing for them. I'll have my popcorn at the ready.
 
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Washington

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Well, they're certainly entitled to their opinions, and as long as that's all it amounts to I don't see any issue. However, should they act on them, as was done in Dover, they better set aside enough money to pay for the outcome. Dover showed that such actions don't come cheaply. A million dollars if I recall.
 
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Pete Harcoff

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My word, these comments just get stupidier one after the other:

"I think that students should be given the opportunity to view all theories on how man evolved and let their science background and their religious background take over as to which one they believe in," said Gallucci, the immediate past president of the National School Boards Association.

Bostock: "The entire theory of evolution is not scientific fact. Intelligent design balances it out."

Cook: "To teach one as if nothing else existed, I think we're doing our students a disservice."

O'Shea suggested that parents who object to evolution being taught to their children might be able to opt them out of that day's lesson. "I'd probably ideally like to keep it all out of the classroom," she said. "If it's going to create this much controversy, how important is it?"

And these people are tasked with the responsibility of determining public science education standards? Are these people trying to help America fail?
 
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TheOutsider

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LittleNipper

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*dons tin foil hat* Because a population of stupid people is easier to control.
Actually, a nation of stupid people is harder to control. Visit any public American school today. Imagine all the guns laying around 100 years ago. How many students were shot back then.......
 
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TeddyKGB

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Actually, a nation of stupid people is harder to control. Visit any public American school today. Imagine all the guns laying around 100 years ago. How many students were shot back then.......
It depends on the scope of ignorance. If you can convince people that they can't find their own way, that they can't survive without God & government, then you've got it made.

Incidentally, how many guns were laying around 100 years ago? You apparently expect us to accept uncritically the insinuation that the average family in 1900 had guns in the umbrella rack. But is that actually true?
 
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Baggins

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My word, these comments just get stupidier one after the other:
And these people are tasked with the responsibility of determining public science education standards? Are these people trying to help America fail?

You'd think that as an outside observer I'd be sitting back and enjoying the self inflicted collapse of American hegemony. But when you realise that the 21st century will be the Chinese century, as the 20th was the US and the 19th the UK, you realise that even with all its faults the American century might actually be a golden age.
 
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ChordatesLegacy

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My word, these comments just get stupidier one after the other:









And these people are tasked with the responsibility of determining public science education standards? Are these people trying to help America fail?

Quote from your link.

Consider one root cause of the problem: The severe shortage of qualified science teachers. An astonishing 28% of those who teach at least one science class in 7th to 12th grades don't have a major or minor in science, according to Richard M. Ingersoll, an education professor at the University of Pennsylvania. Moreoever, even those who have a science degree are often teaching outside their area of expertise. In the physical sciences -- including chemistry and physics -- 60% of the instructors don't have a major or minor in the subjects they teach.

America is defiantly dumbing down, the rest of the world is loving this, I mean if America is going to teach so called creation science, they will even fall behind countries like Zimbabwe.
 
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Tonks

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America is defiantly dumbing down, the rest of the world is loving this, I mean if America is going to teach so called creation science, they will even fall behind countries like Zimbabwe.

We will still rank first in hyperbole, however.
 
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I

Ioinc

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Forgive me if someone has already posted this, but it seems another school board has their sights set on evolution.

Pinellas County School Board

Is there anything to be concerned about? Dover was the final nail in the coffin wasn't it? :scratch:

SWEET!!
I live in Pinellas county. I will take time off work to witness this debacle.

'bout time something cool happened here (and to think, I was considering moving to seattle)
 
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From a link by Pete Harcoff.

For anyone concerned about strengthening America's long-term leadership in science and technology,
the nation's schools are an obvious place to start.

But brace yourself for what you'll find.
The depressing reality is that when it comes to educating the next generation in these subjects,
America is no longer a world contender.

In fact, U.S. students have fallen far behind their competitors in much of Western Europe and in advanced Asian nations like Japan and South Korea.

This trend has disturbing implications not just for the future of American technological leadership but for the broader economy.

Already, "we have developed a shortage of highly skilled workers and a surplus of lesser-skilled workers," warned
Federal Reserve Board Chairman Alan Greenspan in a Mar. 12 address at Boston College. And the problem is worsening.
"[We're] graduating too few skilled workers to address the apparent imbalance between the supply of such workers and the
burgeoning demand for them," Greenspan added.
As a result, "the future strength of the U.S. science and engineering workforce is imperiled," the National Science Board warned
in a sweeping report issued last year.
GLOBAL COMPETITION.

Until now, America has compensated for its failure to adequately educate the next generation by importing brainpower.
In 2000, a stunning 38% of U.S. jobs requiring a PhD in science or technology were filled by people who were born abroad,
up from 24% in 1990, according to the NSB. Similarly, doctoral positions at the nation's leading universities are often filled with foreign students.
However, because the "the global competition for science and engineering talent is intensifying...the U.S. may not be able to rely on the
international market to fill our unmet needs," warns the NSB. Indeed, as globalization accelerates, bright young Indian or Chinese scientists
may well have better opportunities at home than in the U.S.

The consequences of this could be enormous.
Because the quality of a nation's workforce has such a huge influence on productivity,
effective school reform could easily stimulate the economy more than conventional strategies, such as the Bush tax cuts.

Consider what would happen if the U.S. could raise the performance of its high school students on math and science to the levels of
Western Europe within a decade. According to Eric A. Hunushek, a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University,
U.S. gross domestic product growth would then be 4% higher than otherwise by 2025 and 10% higher in 30 years.

That may not sound like much. But Hanushek figures that the 4% annual increase alone would be enough to offset the entire cost of
America's public K-12 school system for the same year.
SCIENCE LEFT BEHIND. Here's where the problem begins with science education: By the time U.S. students reach their senior year of high school,
they rank below their counterparts in 17 other countries in math and science literacy,
according to the Third International Mathematics and Science Study, completed in 1996-97, the largest international study of student achievement
ever conducted. In physics, U.S. high school seniors scored last among 16 countries tested.
Ironically, President Bush's education-reform initiative, No Child Left Behind, may be exacerbating the problem, at least for now.
Because NCLB now requires that students be tested just in reading and math (science tests won't be added until late 2007),
"some teachers are being told to stop teaching science and get back to reading and math," complains Gerald Wheeler, executive director
of the National Science Teachers Assn., which represents more than 50,000 science teachers.

One result is that most high school graduates aren't adequately prepared for college-level science courses.
Indeed, the NSTA reports that just 26% of 2003 high school graduates scored high enough on the ACT science test to have a good chance
of completing a first-year college science course. That's one reason why enrollments of U.S. students in science and engineering majors
has been flat or declining -- even as demand for many of these skills increases.
ILL-EQUIPPED TEACHERS. The upshot: The U.S. now ranks below 13 other countries - -- including Japan, Germany, and South Korea --
in the percentage of 24-year olds with a college degree in these subjects, down from third place 25 years ago.
You don't have to be a scientist to recognize that the status quo is a recipe for big trouble -- or that reversing this slide will require stronger
federal leadership and more money.

Consider one root cause of the problem: The severe shortage of qualified science teachers.
An astonishing 28% of those who teach at least one science class in 7th to 12th grades don't have a major or minor in science,
according to Richard M. Ingersoll, an education professor at the University of Pennsylvania. Moreoever, even those who have a science
degree are often teaching outside their area of expertise. In the physical sciences -- including chemistry and physics -- 60% of the instructors
don't have a major or minor in the subjects they teach.

Earlier this year, The Teaching Comission, headed by former IBM Chairman Louis Gerstner, argued in a report that the U.S. must pay
science teachers more if it hopes to solve this problem. But that isn't likely to happen without leadership from Washington.

As things stand now, science graduates simply have too many lucrative alternatives to teaching.

As America sleeps, other nations that have long since recognized the critical importance of science and technology education to their futures
are moving ahead.
The U.S. has grasped this lesson in many Olympic sports, where strong national programs have been established to ensure
that America has world-class athletes.
Unless the nation applies the same approach to science education, it stands to lose far more than a few gold medals.
It could ultimately squander its leadership of the world economy.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And creationists want to dilute the science class with religion, this begs the question.

Do American creationists love their country?
 
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TheGnome

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I live in Pasco county. We're the county above Pinellas, and we aren't having this debate. When I was in high school, we covered a short blurb of evolution, nothing noteworthy. The entire state of Florida had a very horrible education system, especially in the sciences. I had a decent teacher my last two years of science in high school who happened to be an ex-surgeon, but the head of the science department of my high school was a crazy creationist who, according to friends, was an idiot on other things as well. Apparently that didn't stop the guy from pretending like he knew what he was talking about.

At least the universities here are good.
 
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