Fleeing to Mars not of God

Niels · Apr 9, 2025

truthpls said:
The reason that is given for the main players who want to evacuate earth was doomsday. Now if you want to get into how it is better to spend hundreds of billions or trillions of dollars than to actually help mankind, maybe start a thread on that.

The people who see it as an evacuation frame it that way, but they only speak for themselves. If that's how the main players see it, that tells us more about them as individuals than it does about their employees or space enthusiasts in general. Either way, the "hundreds of billions or trillions of dollars" is spent constructively and helps the economy. If only those billionaires were less greedy and spent more of their money on something so beneficial.

truthpls said:
I disagree. Perhaps you can explain how that trumps hundreds of millions of starving people? WE already know that countries with space programs have used them for womd. So why would I agree to spend trillions on killing us all and in the meanwhile, letting hundreds of millions of people starve?

Those starving people are bright and capable of great things. Space programs are aspirational and can help lift them and their families out of poverty. What do you think happened when the Space Shuttle program ended? Folks lost their jobs.

truthpls said:
Or not.

Show me a teacher that promotes that who thinks womd are good? Space is filled with junk you know. I consider that an insult to God and man.

Space exploration isn't a weapon of mass destruction. We can use rockets to destroy or use rockets to explore and improve the human condition. The latter is a more noble use of technology in my opinion. It is constructive rather than destructive.

truthpls said:
They do not tell us when they sneak weapons in those programs do they? If they had a base on the moon what do you think would be stationed there? How would a base on Mars help the poor, exactly?

Military and civilian programs are usually kept separate. Regarding the moon base, what would be there depends on who would be there.

A base on Mars would provide inspiration and jobs.

RDKirk · Apr 9, 2025

truthpls said:
“If there’s something terrible that happens on Earth, either made by humans or natural, we want to have, like, life insurance for life as a whole,” Musk said in 2020. He wants to turn the planet into a self-sustaining colony, and he reportedly told SpaceX staffers last year he envisions one million people living on Mars by the 2040s.

Elon Musk Says He Wants To Send Humans To Mars As Soon As 2029

Musk—who has a history of setting unrealized goals for his companies—says he wants to send humans to Mars by 2029, though he says 2031 may be more likely.

www.forbes.com

The bible tells us Jesus is returning to earth to rule. There is no escape. Wasting trillions trying to avoid the fate of man on earth is in my opinion a waste and not of God at all.

Thoughts?

You should have put this in the Christians only section if you wanted (as seems apparent) a theological discussion of the issue.

RDKirk · Apr 9, 2025

truthpls said:
Maybe that is one reason He said the poor would always be here. He knows the wicked heart of man and how love of God and each other would not be a priority.

That is true, both what man would do and what the Lord knows man will do.

RDKirk · Apr 9, 2025

Niels said:
The people who see it as an evacuation frame it that way, but they only speak for themselves. If that's how the main players see it, that tells us more about them as individuals than it does about their employees or space enthusiasts in general. Either way, the "hundreds of billions or trillions of dollars" is spent constructively and helps the economy. If only those billionaires were less greedy and spent more of their money on something so beneficial.

If the billionaires were spending their own money, it would be fine.

But for NASA (or any other nation) to do it, that's taxpayer dollars being spent for a billionaire lifeboat (watch "Don't Look Up"). Sure, we can say it "helps the economy" to funnel taxpayer dollars somewhat into such a project, but it would help taxpayers a lot more to funnel their dollars into projects that benefit them on earth...like rebuilding the national infrastructure. Or even funding electric vehicles for everyone.

I don't disparage a single taxpayer dollar spent on the Eisenhower Intestate Defense Highway System. I use that puppy every day.

Niels said:
Those starving people are bright and capable of great things. Space programs are aspirational and can help lift them and their families out of poverty. What do you think happened when the Space Shuttle program ended? Folks lost their jobs.

Here's an idea: Hire even more people to rebuild the national infrastructure or plants to build electric vehicles.

Niels said:
Space exploration isn't a weapon of mass destruction. We can use rockets to destroy or use rockets to explore and improve the human condition. The latter is a more noble use of technology in my opinion. It is constructive rather than destructive.

Military and civilian programs are usually kept separate. Regarding the moon base, what would be there depends on who would be there.

A base on Mars would provide inspiration and jobs.

We need more projects along the line of the Hoover Dam, the Tennessee Valley project, or the Eisenhower Interstate System.

RDKirk · Apr 9, 2025

Gregory Thompson said:
Maybe in 100 or 200 years it could be a tourist destination. The technology right now is too "pioneer"

That's a lot of resources to plunk into developing a tourist destination.

For billionaire tourists at that.

RDKirk · Apr 9, 2025

FireDragon76 said:
Musk is a drug-addled mad scientist obsessed with so-called 'Longtermism', and ignoring immediate and clear ethical duties. A mission to Mars, let alone colonization, would have too many technical hurdles to overcome, and too many ethical considerations haven't yet been explored.

We would be far better off using all that money, science and technology to invest in methods of defending the earth from comet and asteroid strikes and solving climate change. Instead, he wastes money and resources on trying to create a dystopian and totalitarian state on our red neighbor, regardless of the feasability.

For that amount of money, we can develop asteroid protection (which may be a lot cheaper than we think, given the wild success of the DART experiment) and still build Earth-based billionaire hideaways from every other likely catastrophe.

RDKirk · Apr 9, 2025

BNR32FAN said:
I think it’s a waste of time anyway. Trying to survive on mars would take a vast amount of resources and we don’t even know how much ice is on mars. Man won’t be able to survive once the ice runs out.

It couldn't become a self-sustaining colony with the resources on Mars (presuming best-case scenarios of those resources) unless they also artificially limited their numbers to a quite small total...maybe only a couple of hundred or so.

The problem with a small colony is that it would be a "complex-simple" system. It would be complex enough to have thousands of ways to perish, but too simple to have more than a few ways to survive. It would end up like Roanoake.

Niels · Apr 9, 2025

RDKirk said:
If the billionaires were spending their own money, it would be fine.

But for NASA (or any other nation) to do it, that's taxpayer dollars being spent for a billionaire lifeboat (watch "Don't Look Up"). Sure, we can say it "helps the economy" to funnel taxpayer dollars somewhat into such a project, but it would help taxpayers a lot more to funnel their dollars into projects that benefit them on earth...like rebuilding the national infrastructure. Or even funding electric vehicles for everyone.

Part of the problem is the way public and private sector space programs currently interact. Although I support the idea of both, I don't like seeing NASA funds, our tax dollars, going to SpaceX. That, combined with how much unwarranted power Musk has right now, reeks of corruption to me.

RDKirk said:
Here's an idea: Hire even more people to rebuild the national infrastructure or plants to build electric vehicles.

We need more projects along the line of the Hoover Dam, the Tennessee Valley project, or the Eisenhower Interstate System.

Rebuilding the infrastructure and funding new public projects is what I like to see from our government. Unfortunately, not many contemporary candidates focus on such things.

One can support space programs and public works projects. It isn't a matter of either or. For what it's worth, Eisenhower is my favorite US president.

Hans Blaster · Apr 9, 2025

truthpls said:
So you do not know if it is true or not. OK.

I can't *prove* all gods don't exist, but I've never come across even mildly convincing evidence of one, so I feel pretty safe assuming there are none.

truthpls said:
Apparently you like to try to spice your sentences with a disdain of faith in God.

Only to demonstrate that I don't accept your bald faced assertions about them.

truthpls said:
I do not even go to church, so whatever those 'bad' churches were that you were part of for a quarter century I can't address. It sounds somewhat like there were abusers or something in your church,

That's what they got famous for.

truthpls said:
and this was blamed on God.

I blame nothing on a god, for I do not believe they exist.

truthpls said:
I don't look at it that way. If some Pharisees got mad about some people being healed on the Sabbath day, I don't blame God for that. If some Pharisees cast people out of society for believing in Jesus, I don't blame God for that. I don't much care what churches do.

I don't care about Pharisees. They haven't been around in nearly 2000 years.

truthpls said:
I disagree. My life is evidence. History is evidence. Fulfilled prophesies are evidence. The testimonies of millions of people is evidence. His spirit in our life is evidence. Miracles are evidence.

Most miracles are easily debunked. Most prophesies are meaningless or vague. People believe in all sorts of "spiritual" things including many you would not say are real. Belief is not evidence.

truthpls said:
Looking at the issue of neglecting the poor and needs of humanity, and diverting great resources to trying to flee the planet is useful. It is good to have a position on what is a common thread in modern society.

truthpls · Apr 9, 2025

Niels said:
The people who see it as an evacuation frame it that way, but they only speak for themselves. If that's how the main players see it, that tells us more about them as individuals than it does about their employees or space enthusiasts in general. Either way, the "hundreds of billions or trillions of dollars" is spent constructively and helps the economy. If only those billionaires were less greedy and spent more of their money on something so beneficial.

No matter what money is spent on it probably benefits some. That does not make it good or bad.

Niels said:
Those starving people are bright and capable of great things. Space programs are aspirational and can help lift them and their families out of poverty. What do you think happened when the Space Shuttle program ended? Folks lost their jobs.

Name, say, 20 starving families that went to space lately? Name a few that will be space tourists? You can usually get poor people to work at almost anything. If you did have some building nukes or rockets, that would not make it a good thing.

Niels said:
Space exploration isn't a weapon of mass destruction.

It is used that way. That is news to you? I have little doubt any base on the moon should there be one would contain some military component. Space is central to war these days.

Niels said:
We can use rockets to destroy or use rockets to explore and improve the human condition. The latter is a more noble use of technology in my opinion. It is constructive rather than destructive.

The problem once again is sin. Taking it on the road changes nothing. Science is space is no more the answer than science on earth. The human condition that needs fixing is the fallen condition. All problems arise from that. Wasting money to try and flee to space or take man to space can fix nothing.

Niels said:
Military and civilian programs are usually kept separate.

Really? I suspect that we don't know the full extent of what actually goes on.

Niels said:
Regarding the moon base, what would be there depends on who would be there.

A base on Mars would provide inspiration and jobs.

Thanks for your opinion. I already gave mine on that.

truthpls · Apr 9, 2025

RDKirk said:
You should have put this in the Christians only section if you wanted (as seems apparent) a theological discussion of the issue.

The players promoting the idea of fleeing earth are not Christian nor are most of the people discussing the issue on the thread, apparently. Perhaps it is not just Christians that need to think about the issue. One would hope almost all of them already know that escape from earth is not possible.

truthpls · Apr 9, 2025

RDKirk said:
That is true, both what man would do and what the Lord knows man will do.

Exactly

truthpls · Apr 9, 2025

Hans Blaster said:
I can't *prove* all gods don't exist, but I've never come across even mildly convincing evidence of one, so I feel pretty safe assuming there are none.

OK, so you have an opinion. Apparently long ago you had a different opinion. Hopefully in the future you will also have a different opinion. Meanwhile, we have to take it for what it's worth.

Hans Blaster said:
Only to demonstrate that I don't accept your bald faced assertions about them.

That's what they got famous for.

I blame nothing on a god, for I do not believe they exist.

I don't care about Pharisees. They haven't been around in nearly 2000 years.

Actually, I think the Sanhedrin is back.

"The Sanhedrin in Jerusalem, in some ways, like that of the Supreme Court in the United States, has made an official ruling that is making massive waves around the world by calling on all Jews come home to Israel.

“We are the rabbinic court of Jerusalem and we have officially ruled that all Jews around the world have an obligation to do whatever is in your power, to come to the land of Israel, and that is the mitzvah of Torah (Biblical requirement).”

The Sanhedrin’s ruling was sent out to Jews worldwide in English, Hebrew, Yiddish, French, and Spanish.

Jews can individually choose not to follow the mitzvah that commands Jews to live in Israel, but will be in disagreement to the Sanhedrin."

Sanhedrin Just Called All Jews To Move to Israel - Back to Jerusalem

The Sanhedrin in Jerusalem, in some ways, like that of the Supreme Court in the United States, has made an official ruling that is making massive waves around the world […]

backtojerusalem.com

Hans Blaster said:
Most miracles are easily debunked.

List two in the bible that were debunked? By the way, you might not realize that the lives of believers are filled with many miracles. None of which are debunked.

Hans Blaster said:
Most prophesies are meaningless or vague.

Many are eerily specific actually. Name a bible prophesy that is meaningless and vague?

Hans Blaster said:
People believe in all sorts of "spiritual" things including many you would not say are real. Belief is not evidence.

Why would I say the experiences of people were not real? I may say that they were not of God's spirit. But there are many spirits in the world. Therefore many spiritual experiences.

Desk trauma · Apr 9, 2025

truthpls said:
It is used that way.

When was it used that way?

truthpls · Apr 9, 2025

Desk trauma said:
When was it used that way?

When the military uses space, the result is mass destruction. Using satellites in Ukraine and elsewhere, for example. Then there are the space based weapons just waiting to be used. Etc I do not see how that is MERVs or other space based weapons are used, that they would not cause mass causalities? So the point remains that it is already demonstrated that space programs include military aspects. Why would we assume that any future moon bases or Mars bases would be pure and free of all that?

Desk trauma · Apr 9, 2025

truthpls said:
When the military uses space, the result is mass destruction. Using satellites in Ukraine and elsewhere, for example.

Now reconnaissance is a wmd…

truthpls said:
Then there are the space based weapons just waiting to be used.

Such as?

truthpls said:
Why would we assume that any future moon bases or Mars bases would be pure and free of all that?

The logistics making a strike from mars to earth beyond impractical first and foremost.

RDKirk · Apr 9, 2025

truthpls said:
The players promoting the idea of fleeing earth are not Christian nor are most of the people discussing the issue on the thread,

Which means they are not interested in, nor would they be influenced by, a Christian argument.

RDKirk · Apr 9, 2025

truthpls said:
When the military uses space, the result is mass destruction. Using satellites in Ukraine and elsewhere, for example. Then there are the space based weapons just waiting to be used. Etc I do not see how that is MERVs or other space based weapons are used, that they would not cause mass causalities? So the point remains that it is already demonstrated that space programs include military aspects. Why would we assume that any future moon bases or Mars bases would be pure and free of all that?

I would point out that the initial and primary purpose of the GPS system is military.

BNR32FAN · Apr 9, 2025

truthpls said:
Since God is coming back here and will change the heavens from what we know, being anywhere else would not appeal to me. (except heaven, but from there we return to earth anyhow when He returns)

Yeah well you also have to take into consideration that the scriptures were written during a time when no one knew what kind of technological advances mankind would achieve. There were a lot of things that changed from the Old Covenant that weren’t revealed until the New Covenant, so there will probably be even more revealed that was unexpected at Christ’s second coming.

truthpls · Apr 9, 2025

Desk trauma said:
Now reconnaissance is a wmd…

When used to target and kill hundreds of thousands of people, I would probably say yes.

Desk trauma said:
Such as?

Such as any weapon up there. They are not for decorations. You do realize there are oodles of weapons circling us as we speak?

Desk trauma said:
The logistics making a strike from mars to earth beyond impractical first and foremost.

I would think that is correct. But who knows what they might drop off on the way?

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