FLAT or ROUND Earth?

Bradskii said:

Since we've had at least two people who have flown these flights posting, it seems to have gone pretty quiet on the flat earth front.

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@Edwin Wright hasn't been back on CF for some time since his last post. Hope he is ok

Bradskii said:

Since we've had at least two people who have flown these flights posting, it seems to have gone pretty quiet on the flat earth front.

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prodromos said:

Please explain how direct flights between Sydney and Santiago or Sydney and Johannesburg exist on your 'biblical' flat earth.

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Right!

The 99% globetrotters win! [Flat Earth Theory.]

Johannesburg to Sydney flights. If 1% of the supposed flights take that direct route, why would 99% take 1, 2, or even 3 stops, detours; taking two, three times longer and costing more? They must be as dumb as the Flat Earthers! ...or

Paul4JC said:

Johannesburg to Sydney flights. If 1% of the supposed flights take that direct route, why would 99% take 1, 2, or even 3 stops, detours; taking two, three times longer and costing more? They must be as dumb as the Flat Earthers! ...or

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Airlines operate out of central hubs for logistical purposes.



QANTAS has its main hub in Sydney. It flies direct.

Emirates is based in Dubai (DXB) which is in the United Arab Emirates. Its flights pass through its hub.

Qatar Airways is based in Doha (DOH) which is the capital city of Qatar. Its flights pass through its hub.

More importantly, even one direct flight with a 14 hour flight time makes the 'standard' flat earth map impossible.

I have a Christian neighbor I discuss scripture with occasionally. He had been watching a video on youtube spewing that silliness. This teacher actually makes a lot of sense he exclaimed, you should listen to this. I didn't. Why, I have no interest in it. It reminds me of something another friend once expressed in an attempt at cleverness, 'If you can;t convince them with logic, baffle them with B.S.'

Some topics of conversation really don't deserve to be engaged in unless they are in pleasant jest.


That aside, and no offense intended, the shape of earth is immaterial as far as I'm concerned.


That scripture that states, 'The circle of the earth...' proves nothing. You can draw a circle on a piece of paper, it is not a sphere.

Jimmy It said:

You can draw a circle on a piece of paper, it is not a sphere

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It would be equivalent to a 2D representation of an evenly lit sphere though.

Paul4JC said:

If 1% of the supposed flights take that direct route, why would 99% take 1, 2, or even 3 stops, detours; taking two, three times longer and costing more?

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In typical "flat earther" fashion, you deny any and all evidence that proves the falsity of your view.

Can you provide a flat earth map where you can draw a triangle tracing the flights between Sydney and Doha, Doha and Johannesburg, and Johannesburg and Sydney, where the lengths of the sides of the triangle are relative to the travel times? The aircraft for the flights above all have the same cruising speed.

Paul4JC said:

Johannesburg to Sydney flights. If 1% of the supposed flights take that direct route, why would 99% take 1, 2, or even 3 stops, detours; taking two, three times longer and costing more? They must be as dumb as the Flat Earthers! ...or

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Same reason that I can fly from Nashville to London nonstop, but have to make a stop and change planes in the other dorection. They schedule non-stop flights when there are enough passengers to justify it. Otherwise they do shorter connecting flights. Empty seats don't make money.

Paul4JC said:

Right!

The 99% globetrotters win! [Flat Earth Theory.]

Johannesburg to Sydney flights. If 1% of the supposed flights take that direct route, why would 99% take 1, 2, or even 3 stops, detours; taking two, three times longer and costing more? They must be as dumb as the Flat Earthers! ...or

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Because of economics, the physical limitations of aircraft, global aviation safety regulations and the laws that control international air travel (as embodied in the Chicago Convention).

Here's a quick explainer on legal side.

All international flights require the permission of multiple governments to operate. At the minimum, you need the departing and arriving countries to give permission. If you operate a stop via an intervening country, you'll need their permission as well. And different permission if you want to pick up/drop of passengers at the intermediate point(s).

These permissions are (typically) given under bilateral (two party) air services agreements (ASAs).

If you want to operate South Africa-Australia, you need approvals from both governments to operate the route. Usually, one of the stipulations is that a carrier is 'flagged' (that is, effectively owned or controlled) in one of those countries.

But, what if you want to operate South Africa-Australia and you're not a South African or Australian airline? Well, you can still do it, via what are known as fifth and sixth freedom traffic rights.

So, if you're Emirates and you're owned by the Emirate of Dubai, you'll have bilateral ASA rights to operate Dubai-Sydney-Dubai under Flight A and and you'll have ASA rights to operate Dubai-Johannesburg-Dubai under Flight B.

For legal purposes, those are technically separate flights under separate ASAs between pairs of governments. But, for commercial purposes you can combine Flight A and Flight B under a single ticket sold at either end and turn it into a Sydney-Dubai-Johannesburg route (or Johannesburg-Dubai-Sydney).

This is how a LOT of long haul travel operates - through large transit hubs. The big ones for international connecting traffic are Singapore, Hong Kong, Dubai, Doha, Abu Dhabi, Panama, as well as some more traditional point-to-point hubs like London Heathrow, New York JFK or Amsterdam.

So, if you want to know why Singapore Airlines or Cathay Pacific operates seemingly indirect Sydney-Singapore/Hong Kong-Johannesburg when it's much further to fly overall, the weirdly correct answer is: they don't.

They operate separate Singapore/Hong Kong-Sydney-Singapore/Hong Kong and Singapore/Hong Kong-Johannesburg-Singapore/Hong Kong routes, but sell you a Sydney-Johannesburg ticket.

For those who are interested, Qantas has multiple flights to Antarctica from Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth.

prodromos said:

For those who are interested, Qantas has multiple flights to Antarctica from Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth.

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I'll keep that in mind if I feel cold-deprived.

Jimmy It said:

I have a Christian neighbor I discuss scripture with occasionally. He had been watching a video on youtube spewing that silliness. This teacher actually makes a lot of sense he exclaimed, you should listen to this. I didn't. Why, I have no interest in it. It reminds me of something another friend once expressed in an attempt at cleverness, 'If you can;t convince them with logic, baffle them with B.S.'

Some topics of conversation really don't deserve to be engaged in unless they are in pleasant jest.


That aside, and no offense intended, the shape of earth is immaterial as far as I'm concerned.


That scripture that states, 'The circle of the earth...' proves nothing. You can draw a circle on a piece of paper, it is not a sphere.

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It definitely is not immaterial! At its very root, flat earth teaching is demonic. I have a close Christian friend whose wife is a flat earther. It is a great pain for him, esp. as her physical health deteriorates. .And she wonders why God' has not delivered her.

Michelangelo Goeloe said:

I hear a lot of Christians saying that we live on a flat earth and nobody can go in or out the earth. Is the Bible clear on this subject?

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According to my understanding, the Bible describes the earth and the sky as looking like this. This idea was probably derived from the Babylonian cosmology of the 1st millennium BC. However, the Bible is not a science textbook, and cosmology has advanced since Babylonian times.

Astrophile said:

According to my understanding, the Bible describes the earth and the sky as looking like this. This idea was probably derived from the Babylonian cosmology of the 1st millennium BC. However, the Bible is not a science textbook, and cosmology has advanced since Babylonian times.

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All that is missing is the elephants.

prodromos said:

All that is missing is the elephants.

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Isn't it turtles all the way down?

Bradskii said:

Isn't it turtles all the way down?

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Good grief, yes!. Why was I thinking elephants?

prodromos said:

Good grief, yes!. Why was I thinking elephants?

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They often work together.

there are four elephants who support the earth from the four directions from the netherworld, whose names are given in the Ramayana: Virūpākṣa (east), Mahāpadmasama (south), Saumanasa (west), and Bhadra (north)

essentialsaltes said:

They often work together.

there are four elephants who support the earth from the four directions from the netherworld, whose names are given in the Ramayana: Virūpākṣa (east), Mahāpadmasama (south), Saumanasa (west), and Bhadra (north)

View attachment 340850

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Astrophile said:

According to my understanding, the Bible describes the earth and the sky as looking like this. This idea was probably derived from the Babylonian cosmology of the 1st millennium BC. However, the Bible is not a science textbook, and cosmology has advanced since Babylonian times.

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Well done. You understand the Bible better than many Christians. They vehemently deny this is the biblical description. It says what it says.

Paul4JC said:

Well done. You understand the Bible better than many Christians. They vehemently deny this is the biblical description. It says what it says.

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You won me over. Thank you for that.

The earth is how the Bible describes.

The first physical thing God made was water; Proverbs 8:23-24
Then He was hovering over the water. Genesis 1:2

He made a firmament, an expanse, in the middle of the water. Genesis 1:5
To divide the waters from the waters. Genesis 1:6
And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament,
from the waters that were above the firmament: and it was so. Genesis 1:7
And God called the expanse, heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. Genesis 1:8

Have you with Him spread out the sky? which is hard as a molten looking glass. Job 37:18


We are under the hard as a molten look glass firmament that God created.
Outside there is more water and light.
God has cloaked the heavens with darkness; Isaiah 50:3
The city of heaven has streets of transparent gold Revelation 21:21
Water flows from the throne of God Revelation 22:1

So it's not a flat earth in outer space, it's a flat plane in water.
A transparent salad bowl shaped glass upside down , a dome, in an infinite ocean of water,
the water is coming from God Himself, and flowing down and around the dome.
Under the dome, inside the dome, the water is more calm.
Also there is a protrusion, a smaller dome protruding out from the main inside of which is the garden of Eden.
This information is in the book of Enoch.
Because of the flow of water outside the dome, and that the waters inside touch the dome,
that causes cold and ice at the edges of the dome, except that there is a way into the protruding part,
after you cross enough ice, in just that right area, but, there are angels guarding the entrance to Eden.


During Operation Dominick there was Operation Fishbowl, during which bombs were shot up into the sky.
The Sagnac experiment shows that the land is not moving.
Helicopter flight is a demonstration that the land is not moving, if it were a spinning ball a helicopter
should firstly take off more violently, and also be able to hover in place and wait for the earth to move beneath it.
A helicopter flies using it's own pocket of air that is at direct odds with the air around it,
therefore it should also be at odds with the supposed rotation of the earth,
because air current is effected by the supposed rotation of the earth.

There are more than 200 such proofs that the earth is not spinning and is not a ball.
"200 proofs earth is not a spinning ball by Eric Dubay" is a must watch. (use b chute)
"Astronauts gone wild by Bart Sibrel" is another must watch.

Nasa, "nasha" in original Hebrew means "to deceive"
they use parabolic dives to accomplish some minutes of 'zero g' and they edit those minutes together to make it seem
like a longer time of being in 'zero-g'. Often you can hear the plane nose diving, and they have to hair spray the females long hair,
because it would not stay the same between all the different takes so they hold it in place with hair spray.
If you look at footage of a zero-g commercial plane for the public you will see female hair floating all over the place as one would imagine.
Clearly the effect of zero g can be achieved in a plane.
And that is what they do, fit a plane to look like a space ship, and edit together moments of nose dive parabolic 'zero-g'.

Another tactic is wires and a harness that gets edited out with cgi, there are many videos showing glitches and harness outlines in shirts.
Often they are upside down, and in a harness and so things like microphones are actually falling,
but since it is turned to seem right side up to the viewer, when the microphone falls it kind of looks like its floating,
but now that I've told you this, look and see, and you'll be able to tell that it's really falling and they have to catch it.

Another old school tactic is having things stuck to glass and moving that glass before the camera to make it look like objects are floating.
And also they use under water replicas and edit out the water with cgi.
These hollywood tactics are what are used to make the public believe in outer space.

Why?
Because the enemy does not want us to understand the true nature of creation.
Because there is a city with streets of transparent gold on top of the sky.
The heavenly city, from which water flows down and around the firmament, filling the waters outside the firmament.
In the end, the firmament is destroyed (2 Peter 3:8-12) and that city comes down.

The enemy does not want people to understand how close heaven is.
The enemy wants us to feel insignificant.
And the ideas of outer-space and aliens are part of the anti-Christ deception.
Many aspects of the end times are masked and muddied by the generational lies.

When Revelation 8 is happening people will be led to believe it's just asteroids/nukes.
When Revelation 9 is happening people will be led to believe it's just aliens.
In this manner the ends times are being masked.
And I believe the anti-Christ, one pretending to be Jesus, will say he is from another planet,
and using physical lies will explain away many spiritual things.