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Flat Earth: Why doesn't a Plane's altitude meter (gyroscope) pitch up and down if it's a round earth

katerinah1947

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Hi,

As far as for show the difference between then and now, most Christians who are also scientists and engineers, both believe or know God is Real, and also use all things proven in science that we can understand.

Also a summary of science can be found in what our Governments says and does. I as a Chrisitian am Commanded by God in Romans 13:1-5 to follow all the Government's laws. Every Christian is commanded to do that, by God, in that book called the Bible.

So, what you are interfacing with, is those that do not follow their own rule book, as given them by God, but. But the reasons can be very innocent, like in not knowing, to not following it on purpose to abuse other people. That is roughly the range for believers.

LOVE,
 
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ecco

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katerinah1947
Yet, the Bible does not say to not do science. Rather the Bible commands us to do science.​
ecco:
Where?​
katerinah1947
His, position is not what a bunch of goat herders believed 3500 years ago. It is not.​
ecco
Show the difference​

Hi,

Although I am not prepared to give a lecture on this at this time, and I do not know your background, so I really don't know where to start to not bore you to tears in the process, I will start as though, you are not in the Spirit, a trade term and esoteric, ...

I am an atheist. I believe the OT was written over 3500 years ago based on stories that were handed down from generation to generation for thousands of years before that. In that regard it is just a creation story and is no different from any of thousands of other creation stories.

1.) Biblically the Bible is real, but one has to know what is actually said and meant by God.
How do you know what was said by god as recorded in Genesis?


and also as though you are not that familiar with how to make sense out of the Bible, yet.

The sense you, a christian, make out of the bible and the sense that JacksBratt and Morse86 , both also christians, make out of the bible is very different.

The difference is not in what is written in the bible.
The difference is in the way each of you interpret what is written in the bible.

You believe some of it allegory.
They believe most (all?) of it is literal.

People can believe in science only up to the point it conflicts their religious beliefs.
 
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freezerman2000

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Though it's always wise to be specific with people who deny the science on a topic that was settled thousands of years ago.



They'll probably say it's just a flat disk a few thousand miles away.

It's actually a giant Frisbee!
 
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katerinah1947

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katerinah1947
Yet, the Bible does not say to not do science. Rather the Bible commands us to do science.​
ecco:
Where?​
katerinah1947
His, position is not what a bunch of goat herders believed 3500 years ago. It is not.​
ecco
Show the difference​

I am an atheist. I believe the OT was written over 3500 years ago based on stories that were handed down from generation to generation for thousands of years before that. In that regard it is just a creation story and is no different from any of thousands of other creation stories.

How do you know what was said by god as recorded in Genesis?

The sense you, a christian, make out of the bible and the sense that JacksBratt and Morse86 , both also christians, make out of the bible is very different.

The difference is not in what is written in the bible.
The difference is in the way each of you interpret what is written in the bible.

You believe some of it allegory.
They believe most (all?) of it is literal.

People can believe in science only up to the point it conflicts their religious beliefs.

Hi, (Oops!. Some small edits now.) (Done now)

It seems to me these are your most important(s) point(s) above, if it(they) is(are) not, let me know please:

The sense you, a christian, make out of the bible and the sense the JacksBratt and Morse86, both also christians, make out of the bible is very different.

People can believe in science only up to the point it conflicts their relgious beliefs.

The science one is adressible easily, for me. Science cannot and is not and has not ever been in conflict with anything Biblical, other than (some people) extending the Bible into realms that it is not capable of being extended into like Calculus, or double or triple integrations; Rather science, which is Commanded in Genesis 1:28 to do, is a duty which is upon all Christians to do and follow.

Lots of people are Chrisitians. Almost no Christian has all of it correct or knows it all. So, when you ask like here, if a Christian is a Christian, and then assume that they are in full understanding of God, and the Bible then you most probably will not be able to figure out, what the full extent of Christianity is, nor will you find out what it is from a single person.

Lots of people are Scientists. Almost no Scientist knows it all or has it all correct either. I know, I worked in the field.

To add to both points but using science as an analogy, there were and are things in science once upon a time, where I was the expert, and there were things I went to others who were the experts and learned from them.

Do you see the point, I am trying to show you? I know for instance Genesis 1:28 and what it means to a scientist like me, and also what it means to Christians. I do not know everything in The Bible. I only know somethings.

I also know some things about God, and of those things I know I speak of. Others know other things about God, and some of them talk. Others do not out of fear of ridicule, rejection or whatever. I actually do not talk some of the time, even in some Chrisitian groups, as they cannot bear to hear things some of the time, but. But I have the paperwork for much of what I say, so that I can say it, if they will listen, and then I can show them how for me, it is legal to say that.

With your so called atheistic views, which I have done reserch on, and have the results of, I don't know how you could ask any Christian anything, without trying to show them how all of it is wrong.

And your last point. Science is not a believe, it is what is. I would say that any Christian who has to believe in science to discuss it, is in fact doing a dis service to Christians everywhere, as their comprehensions are so low, that they then think the issue is a fight. It is the scientists, all commanded by God to do that work in one way or another, and the theologians, who are now fighting to see, who, is, telling, the, truth. But it looks more like a fight that what it should be, Theologians are primarily Philosophy majors, and not scientists.

In my life, never have I been able to handle the ideas of philosophers, many of whom are wrong, with the proven ideas of engineering, or advanced science, and presenting them an idea that is scientific is like presenting them with an anethema. Now, that is my experience.

Another experience I have, is I actually came to and learned about God, from Science, but, there are few of us, and the Theologians do not normally talk to us, even when they make major mistakes because of it.

LOVE,
 
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Xalith

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Here's another "Do science!" verse:

Proverbs 25:2: It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

This can be applied to the Bible itself, but there's nothing there that says you can't apply it to the rest of reality, either. It is for God's Glory that He hides things that we are still finding out today.

For example, did you know that the values of Pi and E are found int he Bible? The Value of Pi is found twice and the value of E is found once; the two instances of Pi are found in the Old Testament and wasn't discovered until the Greeks.

E (the constant used in various mathematics) wasn't discovered until the 1700s, but yet it was written by John (unknowingly) in ~90AD and was discovered recently.

Nobody knew these things, though, until we had computers that can sift through this stuff much faster than men can.

We're still finding stuff like this to this day, and each thing is yet another straw on the growing pile of hay so to speak of the evidence that the Bible was not written merely by men, but by something much higher. Yes, the books were penned by men, but they were inspired by One much higher. You're not going to tell me that a collection of 66 books written over a 2000-3000 year period that is integrated the way it is happened just by accident, lol.
 
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JacksBratt

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They do not build airplanes they buy them from us. They have money because they have raw resources to sell the developed nations.

They don't build airplanes? What in the world does that have to do with anything?

They have money because they are thriving countries just like the US. They are not pygmy's with bones in their noses. They even have internet , cell phones and they watch TV. This is not exclusive to the northern hemisphere.

The pilots do not fly over the poles and they avoid to fly over the ocean if they can.

So, "we are not flying that way because there is a big ocean and we may crash. Better to crash on land. This is a million dollar airplane but I don't trust it to fly all the way there"

From here to Hong Kong is 17 hours. It could be 4 or 5 hours less if they took a more direct route.
But oceans are scary for huge jetliners. Unless, of course its the Pacific, it's warm in that water.

Last time my wife flew to Asia they landed in Anchorage Alaska for some sort of a medical emergency.
"please take your seats as we head for Hong Kong. If we have an emergency we will detour all the way to Alaska. It will only tale us 4 or 5 hours of time fuel and engine hours but who's in a hurry"?

The next major city would have been Beijing then Hong Kong. If they were to get in trouble over the North Pole there really is not even anyone that would rescue them.
Again with all this trust in the aircraft. Maybe they should build them in Brazil. Isn't air travell much safer than highways and trains?

The countries fight over the Oil deposits but no one is eager to provide rescue services for anyone up there. If Russia knew how much oil there was in Alaska, I am sure they would not have sold it to us as cheap as they did.

I'm sure Russia would have been much more concerned about the logistically strategic military position more than the oil. But who knows? By the way, you crash, its more of a recovery than rescue and it's not their reason for not flying over the water.
 
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JacksBratt

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You believe what a bunch of goat herders believed 3500 years ago, rather than what mankind has discovered over the intervening years.

Moses was trained by the Egyptian elite. King David was also educated and his son, Solomon, was the wisest man who will ever lived. Mark was a doctor. Goat herders.... LOL

Again "If they don't like the data....attack the source and discredit it."
 
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Xalith

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Moses was trained by the Egyptian elite. King David was also educated and his son, Solomon, was the wisest man who will ever lived. Mark was a doctor. Goat herders.... LOL

Again "If they don't like the data....attack the source and discredit it."

Not to discredit or disagree with you, but Wisdom != Intelligence and Intelligence != Wisdom.

You can have someone with an absurdly high IQ who makes absolutely stupid decisions in life, and you can have someone who makes wise choices that can't understand basic algebra.

Saying that Solomon was the wisest man who will ever live isn't saying he's the smartest person who will ever live. I'm not trying to discredit Solomon here, or downplay who he was, I just feel that the argument isn't really on solid ground, yaknow?

Especially since it has nothing to do with whether the Earth is a Globe or a Flat Disc.
 
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ecco

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Hi, (Oops!. Some small edits now.) (Done now)

It seems to me these are your most important(s) point(s) above, if it(they) is(are) not, let me know please:
They are valid.


The science one is adressible easily, for me. Science cannot and is not and has not ever been in conflict with anything Biblical, other than (some people) extending the Bible into realms that it is not capable of being extended into like Calculus, or double or triple integrations; Rather science, which is Commanded in Genesis 1:28 to do, is a duty which is upon all Christians to do and follow.

What about flat vs. spherical earth? What about creation vs. evolution? Where do you draw the line between allegory and literal interpretation?

Lots of people are Chrisitians. Almost no Christian has all of it correct or knows it all.
Some think they do.

So, when you ask like here, if a Christian is a Christian,
I never asked that. If you are going to misquote me or try to put words into my mouth, we are not going to get far.

and then assume that they are in full understanding of God, and the Bible then you most probably will not be able to figure out, what the full extent of Christianity is, nor will you find out what it is from a single person.
I don't need to ask that question, because if I ask 10 christians I will get ten different answers.

Lots of people are Scientists. Almost no Scientist knows it all or has it all correct either.
Do you see the point, I am trying to show you? I know for instance Genesis 1:28 and what it means to a scientist like me, and also what it means to Christians. I do not know everything in The Bible. I only know somethings.
I see your point. Now try to convince everyone in this thread that a spherical earth does not conflict with Genesis.



With your so called atheistic views, which I have done reserch on, and have the results of,
If you had done any research you wouldn't use the phrase "so called". I wouldn't refer to your views, nor the views of any christian, as "so called christian" views.


I don't know how you could ask any Christian anything, without trying to show them how all of it is wrong.
You have tried to show some christians in this thread that some of their beliefs are wrong.

And your last point. Science is not a believe, it is what is. I would say that any Christian who has to believe in science to discuss it, is in fact doing a dis service to Christians everywhere, as their comprehensions are so low, that they then think the issue is a fight. It is the scientists, all commanded by God to do that work in one way or another, and the theologians, who are now fighting to see, who, is, telling, the, truth. But it looks more like a fight that what it should be, Theologians are primarily Philosophy majors, and not scientists.
There are some theologians who try to reconcile sciences like evolution with scripture.

Again, it all depends on where the theologian draws the line between a literal interpretation and allegory. This is true for all people of all religions.


In my life, never have I been able to handle the ideas of philosophers, many of whom are wrong, with the proven ideas of engineering, or advanced science, and presenting them an idea that is scientific is like presenting them with an anethema. Now, that is my experience.

Another experience I have, is I actually came to and learned about God, from Science, but, there are few of us, and the Theologians do not normally talk to us, even when they make major mistakes because of it.
 
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JacksBratt

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Not to discredit or disagree with you, but Wisdom != Intelligence and Intelligence != Wisdom.

You can have someone with an absurdly high IQ who makes absolutely stupid decisions in life, and you can have someone who makes wise choices that can't understand basic algebra.

Saying that Solomon was the wisest man who will ever live isn't saying he's the smartest person who will ever live. I'm not trying to discredit Solomon here, or downplay who he was, I just feel that the argument isn't really on solid ground, yaknow?

Especially since it has nothing to do with whether the Earth is a Globe or a Flat Disc.
Well, not to be picky but the point I was arguing was a claim that the Bible was written by goat herders.

I agree. wisdom, intelligence and knowledge are all different. But goat herders? I think not. This is neglecting to take into consideration that not all goat herders are unintelligent, unwise or uneducated. How rude to all the goat herders out there.
 
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ecco

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For example, did you know that the values of Pi and E are found int he Bible? The Value of Pi is found twice and the value of E is found once; the two instances of Pi are found in the Old Testament and wasn't discovered until the Greeks.

Wow, people knew that the diameter of a circle was about 1/3 of it's circumference. Fantastic. A little piece of rope will tell you that.
E (the constant used in various mathematics) wasn't discovered until the 1700s, but yet it was written by John (unknowingly) in ~90AD and was discovered recently.

We're still finding stuff like this to this day, and each thing is yet another straw on the growing pile of hay so to speak of the evidence that the Bible was not written merely by men, but by something much higher. Yes, the books were penned by men, but they were inspired by One much higher. You're not going to tell me that a collection of 66 books written over a 2000-3000 year period that is integrated the way it is happened just by accident, lol.

Wow, people knew that the diameter of a circle was about 1/3 of it's circumference. Fantastic. A little piece of rope will tell you that.

Which E are you referring to and where did John write about it?
 
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ecco

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Moses was trained by the Egyptian elite. King David was also educated and his son, Solomon, was the wisest man who will ever lived. Mark was a doctor. Goat herders.... LOL

Again "If they don't like the data....attack the source and discredit it."
When you have really good evidence that the Exodus took place, I might believe that Moses was real.

But, in any case, as I stated earlier, I believe the OT was written over 3500 years ago based on stories that were handed down from generation to generation for thousands of years before that. In that regard it is just a creation story and is no different from any of thousands of other creation stories.

Goat herders was not a derogatory term, it was a descriptive term. People living 3500 or 10,000 years ago did not have the knowledge we have today. They had no way of knowing the earth was a spheriod and that gravity is what held them to it.
 
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AceHero

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Imagine what? What damage would that do to them?
So, if the governments , out of the blue, said "folks we were wrong and the earth is flat". This wouldn't cause mass confusion, loss of trust, denial, questioning of government right to rule, govern, the educational systems, military integrity....

It would cause massive hysteria, disconnection and upset the civilized world.

What would be the purpose of hiding the truth about the earth's geometric shape in the first place?

So you're telling me that NASA, an agency in a country that's predominately Christian, wouldn't want to see the Bible supported?
NASA, formed with the help of Nazi engineers, with the scrambled letters of SATAN (the "t" being a red forked tongue through the logo), made up of high level Masons.......Christian? I highly doubt that.

Oh brother. :doh:
 
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Xalith

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Wow, people knew that the diameter of a circle was about 1/3 of it's circumference. Fantastic. A little piece of rope will tell you that.

"About" 1/3? Did you somehow miss the bolded, underlined part where I said it was accurate to fifteen thousandths of an inch!? Do you have any idea how small of a number that is?

Which E are you referring to and where did John write about it?

This E:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_(mathematical_constant)

Actually, I'll just link you an article that says it without me having to re-type what was already typed.

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2003/482/

This explains it quite clearly.
 
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katerinah1947

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They are valid.

What about flat vs. spherical earth? What about creation vs. evolution? Where do you draw the line between allegory and literal interpretation?

Some think they do.

I never asked that. If you are going to misquote me or try to put words into my mouth, we are not going to get far.

I don't need to ask that question, because if I ask 10 christians I will get ten different answers.

I see your point. Now try to convince everyone in this thread that a spherical earth does not conflict with Genesis.

If you had done any research you wouldn't use the phrase "so called". I wouldn't refer to your views, nor the views of any christian, as "so called christian" views.

You have tried to show some christians in this thread that some of their beliefs are wrong.

There are some theologians who try to reconcile sciences like evolution with scripture.

Again, it all depends on where the theologian draws the line between a literal interpretation and allegory. This is true for all people of all religions.

Hi Professor,

All in all for me, that is a term of respect, and honor. So is Docotor if I ever feel compelled to use my terms for anyone.

I used Professor for you, because although I do not understand you totally, nor you me, on my part it is leaving out this or that piece of information, that you always notice, which causes me to suspect you are Professorial material, and nice also, but objective to the max.

Being objective to the maximum conceivable level, is rare even in that profession, but it puts all Professors in the realm of advanced research also.

A shorter way of saying Objective to the Max for me is this: "I don't care what the answer is, I just want the answer, but only if it is the correct answer, and no other, also provable would be nice." Okay, it's not shorter. When I started, I thought it would be.

You wrote, and I will now claim errancy, as I both say what I left out, and also leave the type of conversation which is formal, and go into an informal mode with you, for now. Actually I have been doing both, as the areas you are drawing me into are not my specialty, only I have not said that before, but notice it in your responses, and some adjustments in my words, needed because I too am learning now from you.

If you had done any research you wouldn't use the phrase "so called". I wouldn't refer to your views, nor the views of any christian, as "so called christian" views.

What I did not say about my research is when I did it, I set up the controlled experiments to find out one item. Are there any true Athesits by my esoteric research definition of Atheism. (I and other researchers as a matter of course, correct the definitions of professionally used words to what they should be, or even make up new words when none exist for the item being studied or found. So Atheism was changed to "No possibility that a God exists out there, who is responsible for all of this.")

Since that work was controlled, no one could be told beforehand anything, while I searched for Atheists everywhere. They were not told after either, as word of mouth could carry and ruin the work. The work finally ended. I found ZERO atheists by that definition in roughly 10 years of research. Since then I have used that information mightily, and keep it under test, to make sure that I find the true number of Atheists, under that definition. Now, I still find no Atheists by that definition, but it is almost impossible, but not entirely, to work with Atheists, once I have told them of that work. I do now, since the research is done, tell eveyone, when appropriate of the results of that research project.

I called you a so-called atheist, from the results of that work, however. However, that is not all I found out about the idea of anyone who could say for certain, That there is no possibility that a God exists out there that is responsible for all of this. I found out, then, and it was before I knew that God is Real, from finding out The Bible is Real, that in all the staunchest Atheists is also the stauchest ethics.

The ethics of the most affirmed Atheists were so amazing, that if they were Christian, I would envy them on their Christianity, from their actions and words of justice and rightness in the world that they adhered to and enforced, constantly.

I did become amazed with all of them. Staunch fighters for truth and justice, and abhorrance to what is wrong was in all of them. They even voted with their feet. They left organizations and Theologies and Ideologies, which were errant to them. They did that rather than try and fit in, despite the errors of the group they were trying to fit in with.

Is there anything higher, in ethics and morality than to vote with your feet, even if those feet said attack, rather than just leave?

LOVE,
 
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katerinah1947

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They are valid.

What about flat vs. spherical earth? What about creation vs. evolution? Where do you draw the line between allegory and literal interpretation?

Some think they do.

I never asked that. If you are going to misquote me or try to put words into my mouth, we are not going to get far.

I don't need to ask that question, because if I ask 10 christians I will get ten different answers.

I see your point. Now try to convince everyone in this thread that a spherical earth does not conflict with Genesis.

If you had done any research you wouldn't use the phrase "so called". I wouldn't refer to your views, nor the views of any christian, as "so called christian" views.

You have tried to show some christians in this thread that some of their beliefs are wrong.

There are some theologians who try to reconcile sciences like evolution with scripture.

Again, it all depends on where the theologian draws the line between a literal interpretation and allegory. This is true for all people of all religions.

Hi Again,

Would you like to know, how you can do the work I did, to see if that book called the Bible is fiction or not, using science, so that you can do that work yourself?????????

A researcher can gain tenure at a university normally, by being one of the five or so experts in the world on a subject.

An expert is defined as one who knows all that is written on a subject, and knows which of it is false.

Knowledge of a subject is defined as being present in a person, when they can teach the subject to others.

Would you like to become a Professorial type, a walking reference on The Bible???????

LOVE,
 
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JacksBratt

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When you have really good evidence that the Exodus took place, I might believe that Moses was real.

You should really check out a documentary called "patterns of evidence: Exodus" directed by Tim Mahoney. Ironically, one of his best colleagues in the search is an atheist. Very interesting and eye opening.

But, in any case, as I stated earlier, I believe the OT was written over 3500 years ago based on stories that were handed down from generation to generation for thousands of years before that. In that regard it is just a creation story and is no different from any of thousands of other creation stories.

Actually there is more numerous and recent documents and manuscripts for the Bible than any of the ancient works like Socrates and Plato.

Goat herders was not a derogatory term, it was a descriptive term. People living 3500 or 10,000 years ago did not have the knowledge we have today. They had no way of knowing the earth was a spheriod and that gravity is what held them to it.

They had knowledge, they lacked technology. There are structures from ancient times that we cannot figure out today.

Some may say that the human race has forgotten more in the past than we know today. Sometimes technology makes you lazy and naive as to the truth and methods of reality.
 
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JacksBratt

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What would be the purpose of hiding the truth about the earth's geometric shape in the first place?

It's one of Satan's biggest goals.......make God unnecessary or make Him a fairy tale.
 
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AceHero

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What would be the purpose of hiding the truth about the earth's geometric shape in the first place?
It's one of Satan's biggest goals.......make God unnecessary or make Him a fairy tale.

Most Christians believe that the earth is round.

And they still believe in God.
 
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katerinah1947

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It's one of Satan's biggest goals.......make God unnecessary or make Him a fairy tale.

Hi,
Dear Jack.,

One of the things I learned when I who did not know if God was Real or not, learned after I found out God was Real, is that Science really is "Finding out what God has done."

Science in no way, leads one away from God, it leads one to God.

Beauty. God is said to be beautiful. What keeps scientists working is the beauty they see in finding out What God has Done. Yes, they do not know they are finding out what God has done, but they do know beauty when they see it, and it is that beauty that captures them in a way.

Beauty is such a common thing in correct science, that it has been suggested to use beauty as a proof concept for scientific ideas. If it AIN'T beautiful, then it is not correct, is what was postulated as a tool to help anylyse new science discoveries. I don't think it is used though.

Making God unnecessary or a fairly tale, may be correct, but science makes God known, not a fairly tale, so your thoughts may not be correct. Instead is the poor use and undertanding of science, lies about science, that can lead people away from God, if they believe those lies.

Here is another item. Those of us at the top of science, are not understood by laymen, or those in the bottom areas of science. And the media, gets us totally wrong. The plays and movies reverse the truth. And, we sit in those upper areas of knowledge being so close to God in ways known and unknown, and we are unkown also.

It is not science that leads people away from God, it is what they don't have right, that leads people away from God.

Oh by the way, gravity is Real and a force. The earth is round, but slighlty not perfectly round due to spinning. God is Real. The Bible is Real, by this definition. It is true, where it says it is true. It is not true, where it says it is not true.

LOVE,
 
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