Flat Earth: Why doesn't a Plane's altitude meter (gyroscope) pitch up and down if it's a round earth

Dave-W · Oct 9, 2015

So if we have a flat earth - and it is not infinite - show me the edge.

Xalith · Oct 9, 2015

RE: "Does the Moon Have Gravity"?

Yes, it does, because every time the moon is closest to the Earth, we have high tides. The Moon's gravity is enough that it pulls water along with it enough to create high tides.

RE: "How can a plane maintain constant altitude!?"

Ever heard of Centrifugal Force? When something (A) is in orbit of a ball-shaped object (B), A is pushed away from B. However, if there was a force keeping A near to B (like a string, or in case of the plane, gravity), A will maintain a specific distance away from B.

This is easy to do yourself -- get a tennis ball, cut it in half, and get a disc the same diameter as the tennis ball. Put a pin through the "poles" of the tennis ball (so that it goes through the center of the disc) and attach a string to the edge of the disc. Put a small weighted object at the end of this string, and grab the tennis ball by the pin that you inserted into it and move it in a circular movement fast.

You will notice the weighted object will start to orbit the tennis ball (if the disc can spin freely) and the weighted object will maintain a consistent "altitude" from the surface of the tennis ball. The string represents gravity.

By adjusting the speed at which you are moving (the speed at which you move the tennis ball in a circular movement), you can adjust the altitude of the plane/weighted object (though in the experiment, the weighted object will try to go down towards the ground because of Earth's gravity so the experiment isn't a perfect model).

When flying a plane, the faster you go, the less thrust/wing lift you need to stay aloft because of Centrifugal Force. That is why planes like to cruise at an optimum speed -- you measure the amount of fuel needed to maintain that speed vs how easy it is to stay aloft. Too fast means you're spending too much fuel for the ease of gliding, and too slow means you're spending too much fuel on thrust to stay in the air. You need to make fine adjustments with gravity and Centrifugal Force in mind.

If the Earth were flat, there would be no CF, and thus you would be spending a lot more fuel to fly.

brinny · Oct 9, 2015

Jimmy D said:
Brinny, Brinny, Brinny, have you learnt nothing from this thread? Gravity doesn't exist so why would they fall down like that?

My theory is that there must be some sort of invisible force field that teleports the ships to the opposite edge of the world. They could sail outwards off the eastern edge and then appear sailing inwards on the western edge without even being aware of what had happened. It would work for aeroplanes too.

Flat Earth, Case closed.

LOL!

brinny · Oct 9, 2015

davedajobauk said:
You go tell-them Brinny Sis'

If an aircraft were a bullet fired from a gun STRAIGHT UP (vertically)
it would run out of speed, and not, reach the upper atmosphere before falling back to earth

Factors involved, are; aircraft speed, air-friction and gravity
An aircraft takes advantage of air-pressure/ air-friction, to place lift over it's wings
With 'lift' under/over it's wings an aircraft can effectively defeat gravity
BUT, it cannot reach 'escape velocity' and so travel into space

If, the earth were "FLAT".... where oh where, is it's edge ???
and why do the seas (oceans) NOT... drop, off the edges
If the earth were "FLAT" then we could see across the world using a telescope
but that ain't happening (is it ?)
because strangely, our horizons terminate at less than 30 miles distant on a flat plain
(why ? does everything drop 'out of view' beyond that limit ?)
[If everything were a flat plane, we would see everything from edge to edge]

awwww bless

"Flat Earth" LOL

Thank you sir.

I agree

The Cadet · Oct 9, 2015

Literally the only reasonable response to this thread said:
What research have you done? NONE.

Indeed.

You don't understand any of the concepts you're discussing. You don't know how gyroscopes work, how planes fly, how rockets fly, how GPS works, or how to measure parallax. It would be one thing if you came into this thread with a respectful, child-like attitude, saying "I don't know how this works, could you guys explain it to me?" But instead you come in here angrily and arrogantly stating these questions in the vain hope that nobody will answer, thus proving your theory right. That's a terrible way to learn things and a great way to get everything wrong.

Papias · Oct 9, 2015

morse86 said:
Spherical earth directly makes God's word a lie. Let God be true and every man a liar. When God says there are four corners of the earth, when there is a firmament, when the earth is immovable, when it is his footstool (while spinning??!!?)....I believe it literally....it's not a parable.

All you have is God's word and man's cleverly lies. Who are you going to believe?

Morse is right. That's what the scripture literally says. Many of you know me - I post honestly based on what the evidence says.

It's not just a couple verses as Morse mentions - but over three dozen. The Bibles - nearly all of them - if read literally, again and again confirm a flat earth under a hard dome, with the stars, moon and sun inside that dome, and nearby (Joshua 10 suggests an earth to sun distance of around 20-40 miles). Genesis 1 describes this in detail, including the creation of the dome, the ocean above the dome, the lights inside the dome, and so on. Specifically:

Flat Earth-

Bible tells us that the earth is flat like a piece of clay stamped under a seal (Job 38:13-14), that it has edges as only a flat plane would (Job 38:13-14,.Psa 19:4), is set on a foundation, like a table (2Sm 22:16, Ps 18:15, 102:25, Pr 8:27-29, Is 48:13), has a length as only a flat plane would (Dan 4:11, Job 11:9, Job 28:24, Job 37:3, Job 38:13, Job 38:44, Jrm 16:19), that it is a circular disk (Isa 40:22), and that its entire surface can be seen from a high tree (Dan 4:10-11) heaven (Job 28:24) or mountain (Matt 4:8) or which is impossible for a sphere, but possible for a flat disk. Taken literally, as the YECs insist we do, any one of these passages shows a flat earth. Taken together, they are even more clear. And many Christians in history have interpreted it as such.

Geocentrism-

The Bible describes the earth as unmovable, set on a foundation of either pillars in water (1 Sam 2:8, 1 Chr 16:30, Job 9:6, 38:4, Psa 24:1-2, 75:s3, 93:1, 96:10, 104:5, 136:6). It also tells us that, although the earth does not move, the sun and stars do move about it (Josh 10:12, Psa 19:4-6, 50:1, Ecc 1:5 (note “returns”, not perspective), Hab 3:11). And that the stars could be dropped down onto the earth like fruit falling from a tree (Rev. 6:13 - imagine how ridiculous 6:13 would be if the stars were each physically larger than the earth). Taken literally, as the YECs insist we do, these verses show geocentrism. And many Christians in history (including Martin Luther) have interpreted it as such.

We live in a Planetarium-

The Bible describes the sky (firmament -- literally "metal bowl made by a hammer"- Gen 1:6-8, 1:14-17) as a solid dome, like a tent (Isa 40:22, Psa 19:4, 104:2, Pr 8:27-29, Ezk 1:26), that is arched over the surface of the earth. It also has windows to let rain/snow in (Gen 7:11, 8:2, Deut 28:12, 2 Kings 7:2, Job 37:18, Mal 3:10, Rev 4:1). Ezekiel 1:22 and Job 37:18 even tell us that it's hard like bronze and sparkles like ice, that God walks on it (Job 22:14) and can be removed (Rev 6:14). Ex 24:10 suggests that it is like sapphire. Joshua 10:12 estimates how far the Sun and Moon are from Earth’s surface. The Sun was stopped to illuminate the Valley of Gibeon, and the Moon was stopped to illuminate the Valley of Aijalon, showing that one wasn’t sufficient for both valleys (too close). So some basic trigonometry shows that they are therefore at a roughly similar height as the valleys are from each other – which is around 20 miles. Similarly, the whole Star of Bethlehem story in Mt (where a star designates a single house) makes no sense if stars are millions of miles across, but makes perfect sense if the stars are little lights hanging from a dome above us. Taken literally, as the YECs insist we do, these verses show a solid sky above us. And again, many Christians in history have interpreted it as such.

As Christians, we can approach this different ways. I choose to see these as God talking to people in their own language and worldview at the time. Other Christians may see them literally, giving a flat earth. Either way, however, it is clear that if one takes a literal view, then the result is a flat earth under a hard dome. I hope we can all be honest about that, just as Morse here is honest about that.

In Christ-

Papias

davedajobauk · Oct 9, 2015

I have a question for the guy that believes in "invisible force fields and teleportation"

The people on the other side of the world, are, 'upside down', right ?
So, if they, are walking on the ceiling, how do they stick to it ?

davedajobauk · Oct 9, 2015

Xalith said:
If the Earth were flat, there would be no CF

If the above were true, I wouldn't be able to see your posts
and so, to the contrary, CF 'exists'

OGM · Oct 9, 2015

This is 2015 right? Flat Earth?!!!

timewerx · Oct 9, 2015

morse86 said:
1) Why doesn't a Plane's altitude meter (gyroscope) pitch up and down constantly if it's a round earth? NASA says the curvature is 8 inches per mile. The average speed of a plane is 580mph......how come the altitude meter stays mostly constant?

Actually, the attitude indicator (gyro) in a plane is not entirely depending on the gyros. An attitude indicator will still hunt for gravity and other inertia forces. The gyro acts more like dampener because without it, the artificial horizon will bob and roll like a hula spring doll with every movement of the plane...

This is why an attitude indicator doesn't pitch as you cruise in a plane across a spherical planet at high speeds. But because the attitude indicator is still affected by gravity, if it is rolled to one side, it will very slowly rotate until it is no longer showing your correct attitude against Earth..

If you have a gyro-equipped smartphone, you can find aircraft instruments app for it via applestore or playstore. You should at least find an attitude indicator and install it on your phone. And then you'll find, if you tilt the phone a little for a long time, the artificial horizon will slowly tilt also to hunt the gravity, so if you turn the phone upright again, now the horizon is in error... But if you keep it upright for a long time, the instrument will eventually correct the error. The aircraft instrument also works in this manner. An aircraft in cruise, in level attitude, constant altitude and speed, the attitude indicator will keep pointing towards the Earth due to gravity.

JM · Oct 9, 2015

After a mean bout of insomnia I joined the Flat Earth Society for kicks. I don’t know much about the earth…just who created it.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

katerinah1947 · Oct 9, 2015

Papias said:
Morse is right. That's what the scripture literally says. Many of you know me - I post honestly based on what the evidence says.

It's not just a couple verses as Morse mentions - but over three dozen. The Bibles - nearly all of them - if read literally, again and again confirm a flat earth under a hard dome, with the stars, moon and sun inside that dome, and nearby (Joshua 10 suggests an earth to sun distance of around 20-40 miles). Genesis 1 describes this in detail, including the creation of the dome, the ocean above the dome, the lights inside the dome, and so on. Specifically:

Flat Earth-

Bible tells us that the earth is flat like a piece of clay stamped under a seal (Job 38:13-14), that it has edges as only a flat plane would (Job 38:13-14,.Psa 19:4), is set on a foundation, like a table (2Sm 22:16, Ps 18:15, 102:25, Pr 8:27-29, Is 48:13), has a length as only a flat plane would (Dan 4:11, Job 11:9, Job 28:24, Job 37:3, Job 38:13, Job 38:44, Jrm 16:19), that it is a circular disk (Isa 40:22), and that its entire surface can be seen from a high tree (Dan 4:10-11) heaven (Job 28:24) or mountain (Matt 4:8) or which is impossible for a sphere, but possible for a flat disk. Taken literally, as the YECs insist we do, any one of these passages shows a flat earth. Taken together, they are even more clear. And many Christians in history have interpreted it as such.

Geocentrism-

The Bible describes the earth as unmovable, set on a foundation of either pillars in water (1 Sam 2:8, 1 Chr 16:30, Job 9:6, 38:4, Psa 24:1-2, 75:s3, 93:1, 96:10, 104:5, 136:6). It also tells us that, although the earth does not move, the sun and stars do move about it (Josh 10:12, Psa 19:4-6, 50:1, Ecc 1:5 (note “returns”, not perspective), Hab 3:11). And that the stars could be dropped down onto the earth like fruit falling from a tree (Rev. 6:13 - imagine how ridiculous 6:13 would be if the stars were each physically larger than the earth). Taken literally, as the YECs insist we do, these verses show geocentrism. And many Christians in history (including Martin Luther) have interpreted it as such.

We live in a Planetarium-

The Bible describes the sky (firmament -- literally "metal bowl made by a hammer"- Gen 1:6-8, 1:14-17) as a solid dome, like a tent (Isa 40:22, Psa 19:4, 104:2, Pr 8:27-29, Ezk 1:26), that is arched over the surface of the earth. It also has windows to let rain/snow in (Gen 7:11, 8:2, Deut 28:12, 2 Kings 7:2, Job 37:18, Mal 3:10, Rev 4:1). Ezekiel 1:22 and Job 37:18 even tell us that it's hard like bronze and sparkles like ice, that God walks on it (Job 22:14) and can be removed (Rev 6:14). Ex 24:10 suggests that it is like sapphire. Joshua 10:12 estimates how far the Sun and Moon are from Earth’s surface. The Sun was stopped to illuminate the Valley of Gibeon, and the Moon was stopped to illuminate the Valley of Aijalon, showing that one wasn’t sufficient for both valleys (too close). So some basic trigonometry shows that they are therefore at a roughly similar height as the valleys are from each other – which is around 20 miles. Similarly, the whole Star of Bethlehem story in Mt (where a star designates a single house) makes no sense if stars are millions of miles across, but makes perfect sense if the stars are little lights hanging from a dome above us. Taken literally, as the YECs insist we do, these verses show a solid sky above us. And again, many Christians in history have interpreted it as such.

As Christians, we can approach this different ways. I choose to see these as God talking to people in their own language and worldview at the time. Other Christians may see them literally, giving a flat earth. Either way, however, it is clear that if one takes a literal view, then the result is a flat earth under a hard dome. I hope we can all be honest about that, just as Morse here is honest about that.

In Christ-

Papias

Hi,

When it comes to honesty and The Bible for me, it is honesty that requires me to know what God actually meant. Therefore, I have to stick to the simple things, not the complex. I also have an engineering degree in Electrical engineering, yet I stick to what is simple. I also have worked in advanced research for years, yet I stick to what is simple.

One of the simple things that I learned is just how many incorrect translators of The Bible are out there. Thus, comparing Translations, but also knowing every passage that I can find on a particular subect is also needed for me. It is needed to find out what God actually means, rather than what one person or group of people say God means.

In my Bible work, I have found the passage of Babylon and looked for why God was upset with them. Amazingly it was not what others told me the reasons were. That is true of many other sections of what we call theology.

In Galileo's time, the church actually said that they were right scripturally and Galileo was wrong Scripturally. They also using the Council of Trent put their infallibility statement out, in initially bringing up charges against Galileo. It was his saying things contrary to scripture that eventually led the Inquisition to look at his work. They proclaimed his work false, scripturally.

If God is Real, and He is Real from my own research, and if the Bible is Real and it is from my own research again, completed in the year 2000 or so, then neither God, nor The Bible can be wrong. Yet, many people see items like Galileo as indicators that God is not Real, or The Bilbe is not Real, and Both of Them Are Real. (Again falling back on that independent research.)

So, you should ask, how do I reconcile God as being Real, and The Bible as being Real, with Science? I do that by not throwing out inconvenient sections of The Bible.

Genesis 1:28, in that Blessing by God to all of humanity, told us to do science. Therefore throwing nothing out, on the flat earth idea, I use Science and what The Bible says.

Similarly before leaving that idea, some things are in Government Laws that God makes. It is similar to science in that The Bible gives us the great Why, why life exists, but it does not tell us how to make a tractor for plowing the fields to subdue the earth. In a very similar way, Government Laws, of Romans 13:1-5 fame, and also in another place written by Peter, they tell us how to handle things from God that are not in The Bible clearly also, but are very clearly spelled out in the Government's Laws.

In short, we have nothing to fear from following what God tells us to do, and He told us to do science. We also have nothing to fear from following what God tells us to do, and He told us to follow the Government's Laws, also.

We are to look at what the Bible says, we are to look at what Science says, we are to look at what the Government says, to know what God means more clearly.

LOVE,

ecco · Oct 9, 2015

morse86 said:
Flat Earth: Why doesn't a Plane's altitude meter (gyroscope) pitch up and down if it's a round earth

Let's start with the basics.

Here is my understanding of what the earth looks like. It is a two dimensional representation of a sphere.

I've shown you mine (spherical). Now you show us yours (flat). Any visual you can post would be acceptable.

ecco · Oct 9, 2015

morse86 said:
Computers in the 1960s were size of buildings

Wrong. Business computers like the IBM 7070 and 7090 would fit into a 4 x 10 room.

morse86 said:
and had TONS of errors in them. It took months to correct the errors.

Wrong the above mentioned computers were very reliable. When they did occasionally fail, an IBM tech would have them running within hours.

morse86 said:
Programs were stored on punch cards and storage were slow slow tape drives.

Mostly right.

morse86 said:
The first hard drive took an entire room, crashed often, and engineers had to come in special dust proof suits to fix the issue.

Wrong on every count. Hard drives were 4x4x4. Seldom crashed. Computer rooms were air conditioned but dust suits? NO!

morse86 said:
Programmers were horrible, there were no standards.

morse86 said:
There was tons and tons and tons of errors in the programs.

Wrong again, this is getting boring. Programming languages were not as easy to use as today's, but that didn't stop programmers from writing eg payroll programs that paid tens of thousands of employees (in just one company) correctly every week .

JacksBratt · Oct 9, 2015

brinny said:
wouldn;t this happen to ships on a flat earth?

Actually, they believe that Antarctica rims the perimeter of a round disk of a flat earth. You cannot prove different due to a mega treaty of six super nations which will not allow anyone to go there without express permission.

Funny thing, this treaty was signed after Admiral Byrd tried to fly over the south pole. They found something that is top secret and prompted the ban on people going there to see whats up.

Also, Admiral Byrd made a public statement, well documented, that there is an abundance of natural resources there. Why is none of it being recovered?

brinny · Oct 9, 2015

JacksBratt said:
Actually, they believe that Antarctica rims the perimeter of a round disk of a flat earth. You cannot prove different due to a mega treaty of six super nations which will not allow anyone to go there without express permission.

Funny thing, this treaty was signed after Admiral Byrd treed to fly over the south pole. They found something that is top secret and prompted the ban on people going there to see whats up.

Also, Admiral Byrd made a public statement, well documented, that there is an abundance of natural resources there. Why is none of it being recovered?

According to this theory, where is the North Pole?

morse86 · Oct 9, 2015

Yes, technicians wore dust suits, especially when replacing the head or aligning the hard drives. Programs had tons of errors and constantly crashed. This was just before the object oriented procedural programming standards came into place. Have you not heard of the float point error, the therac-25 incident etc.

The size of a computer was the size of a room, the technology they used would've been from the 1950s.

Admiral Byrd said there are plenty of natural resources in antarctica. This man was a national hero....why would he say something like that?
Why was there a treaty created immediately after Byrd's missions?!?!?

Here is the Admiral Byrd interview:

Goto the 7:13 minute mark.

Here is the U.N. Logo:
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net...est/scale-to-width-down/240?cb=20141002175403

Looks like a flat earth surrounded by "antarctica".

Why is the USGS....the map makers of the WORLD....use the map azimuthal equidistant projection.
Here is the azimuthal equidistant map:

Winken · Oct 9, 2015

ecco said:
Let's start with the basics.

Here is my understanding of what the earth looks like. It is a two dimensional representation of a sphere.

I've shown you mine (spherical). Now you show us yours (flat). Any visual you can post would be acceptable.

This is the view of earth from 25,000 miles up.
The red areas represent the oceans.
The toasted areas represent WW-III.
Obviously, the earth is flat. On both sides.
Airplanes fly off the end, bank and turn,
then fly upside down relative to right side
up.

Simple astronomical psychological physics socialogically expressed in a dynamic equivalent of hyperboliic hermenutics (fractionally disassociated).

I posted this in #33 and #38.

morse86 · Oct 9, 2015

Admiral Byrd said there are plenty of natural resources in antarctica. This man was a national hero....why would he say something like that?
Why was there a treaty created immediately after Byrd's missions?!?!?

Here is the Admiral Byrd interview:

Goto the 7:13 minute mark.

Here is the U.N. Logo:

Looks like a flat earth surrounded by "antarctica".

Why is the USGS....the map makers of the WORLD....use the map azimuthal equidistant projection.
Here is the azimuthal equidistant map:

This is what the flat earth probably looks like:

JacksBratt · Oct 9, 2015

brinny said:
According to this theory, where is the North Pole?

According to their theory, the north pole is the center of the disk shaped round but flat earth. Check out the United Nations logo.

Flat Earth: Why doesn't a Plane's altitude meter (gyroscope) pitch up and down if it's a round earth

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