Flat Earth & Geocentrism

[AV1611VET]

Here's my take on Flat Earth & Geocentrism.

I believe that God at one point showed Adam & Eve His perfect creation, during one of the many sessions where ...

Genesis 3:8a And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day:

This means that Adam & Eve believed ... and taught ... round earth and a heliocentric solar system.

Eventually, over time, and just like today, unbelievers arose; people who put more trust in their empirical senses than they did in the stories told by their ancestors.

Eventually, as the wheat outgrew the tares, flat earth and a geocentric universe became the empirical observation of the times.

Those who believed them did so in spite of what God told Adam & Eve.

In time, and under the tutelage of the Holy Spirit, scientists began to understand that the earth really is round, and our solar system really is heliocentric.

Now today, in the 21[sup]st[/sup] century, there is a tendency for some to blame the clergy and/or the Bible for espousing flat earth and geocentrism, when in fact, it was an unbelieving, rebellious generation that started it all.

 

[Loudmouth]

This means that Adam & Eve believed ... and taught ... round earth and a heliocentric solar system.

Why not make the same argument for an old earth and evolution?

 

[Jro]

Maybe flat earth is just the past state and earth became round in the 1700s.

 

[AV1611VET]

Why not make the same argument for an old earth and evolution?

I have Boolean standards I use that prevent me from doing so.

 

[AV1611VET]

Maybe flat earth is just the past state and earth became round in the 1700s.

Do you believe that? if not, mind if I don't either?

 

[Jro]

Do you believe that? if not, mind if I don't either?

Do you have any proof that it DIDN'T happen that way? Different state past man, you don't know, you weren't there.

 

[Split Rock]

Here's my take on Flat Earth & Geocentrism.

I believe that God at one point showed Adam & Eve His perfect creation, during one of the many sessions where ...

Genesis 3:8a And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day:

This means that Adam & Eve believed ... and taught ... round earth and a heliocentric solar system.

Book and chapter, please. Also, why would God tell them any of this? What good would it do, when they were about to eat the forbidden fruit?

Eventually, over time, and just like today, unbelievers arose; people who put more trust in their empirical senses than they did in the stories told by their ancestors.

Eventually, as the wheat outgrew the tares, flat earth and a geocentric universe became the empirical observation of the times.

Those who believed them did so in spite of what God told Adam & Eve.

In time, and under the tutelage of the Holy Spirit, scientists began to understand that the earth really is round, and our solar system really is heliocentric.

Now today, in the 21[sup]st[/sup] century, there is a tendency for some to blame the clergy and/or the Bible for espousing flat earth and geocentrism, when in fact, it was an unbelieving, rebellious generation that started it all.

Who was this unbelieving, rebellious generation you speak of? Why do you connect lack of belief and rebellion against God with not believing what God told Adam and Eve back in the Garden, but never bothered to record in the "Documentation?" How would they even know what God taught Adam and Eve?

 

[AV1611VET]

Do you have any proof that it DIDN'T happen that way?

No, sir.

If I did, I wouldn't believe it, would I?

In fact, I would not have even started this thread.

Different state past man, you don't know, you weren't there.

A different state past doesn't necessitate a reconfiguration of the solar system.

 

[AV1611VET]

Book and chapter, please.

Just a hunch.

Also, why would God tell them any of this?

Perhaps they asked?

What good would it do, when they were about to eat the forbidden fruit?

What do you mean what good would it do?

They were able to pass that information down to their children and childrens' children, and childrens' childrens' children, and so on; until they died.

Who was this unbelieving, rebellious generation you speak of?

The Nimrods of their day.

Cain, for example, may have not believed them; perhaps Lamech as well.

Does it matter, as far as my point goes?

Why do you connect lack of belief and rebellion against God with not believing what God told Adam and Eve back in the Garden, but never bothered to record in the "Documentation?"

I don't quite understand your question.

The OP is simple enough, is it not?

What's with pressing for details ... unless you don't want to believe it yourself?

Is this indicative of those questions you had for your priest?

How would they even know what God taught Adam and Eve?

Who's 'they'?

Adam & Eve's progeny that went astray?

If so, the same thing happened with Nimrod, who, if you'll read the Epic of Gilgamesh, refused to believe what Noah told him as well.

 

[Loudmouth]

I have Boolean standards I use that prevent me from doing so.

No, those are double standards. You have become the exact person you describe in the OP, taking to modern creationism even though the science shows otherwise.

 

[Split Rock]

Just a hunch.

Perhaps they asked?

What do you mean what good would it do?

They were able to pass that information down to their children and childrens' children, and childrens' childrens' children, and so on; until they died.

The Nimrods of their day.

Cain, for example, may have not believed them; perhaps Lamech as well.

Does it matter, as far as my point goes?

I don't quite understand your question.

The OP is simple enough, is it not?

What's with pressing for details ... unless you don't want to believe it yourself?

Is this indicative of those questions you had for your priest?

Who's 'they'?

Adam & Eve's progeny that went astray?

If so, the same thing happened with Nimrod, who, if you'll read the Epic of Gilgamesh, refused to believe what Noah told him as well.

My point was that if none of this information was documented in the bible (or any where else), then why would it be expected that anyone would remember it? If I am correct, then no rejection of God would be involved in believing in a flat earth or a geocentric solar system.

 

[Belk]

Here's my take on Flat Earth & Geocentrism.

I believe that God at one point showed Adam & Eve His perfect creation, during one of the many sessions where ...

Genesis 3:8a And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day:

This means that Adam & Eve believed ... and taught ... round earth and a heliocentric solar system.

Eventually, over time, and just like today, unbelievers arose; people who put more trust in their empirical senses than they did in the stories told by their ancestors.

Eventually, as the wheat outgrew the tares, flat earth and a geocentric universe became the empirical observation of the times.

Those who believed them did so in spite of what God told Adam & Eve.

In time, and under the tutelage of the Holy Spirit, scientists began to understand that the earth really is round, and our solar system really is heliocentric.

Now today, in the 21[sup]st[/sup] century, there is a tendency for some to blame the clergy and/or the Bible for espousing flat earth and geocentrism, when in fact, it was an unbelieving, rebellious generation that started it all.

Yes, your fictional account proves it. Well done AV.

 

[Jamin4422]

Do you believe that? if not, mind if I don't either?

I just got an infraction for saying that to them.

Genesis 3:8a And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day:

You see a lot of this in the book of Job. For example: "[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Then the LORD answered [/FONT]Job[FONT=arial, sans-serif] out of the whirlwind and said, “Who is this that darkens counsel By words without knowledge?" [/FONT] People believe that God gives them wisdom, knowledge and understanding. If there is no God, then did Adam just think that he heard the voice of God? Is God really just a product of our imagination?

What if all of that were true. When people go to church and worship they feel good. Maybe evolution can explain why they feel good without having to take drugs or drink. Even if there is no God what is the harm in getting together with friends and enjoying your self and having a good time?

 

[HitchSlap]

I typically don't hold myths as literal truths.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

If there is no God, then did Adam just think that he heard the voice of God? Is God really just a product of our imagination?

Possibly.
Or maybe there never was an 'Adam'
maybe these stories regarding Adam an Eve are allegorical and have no literal truth to them. It wouldn't take any moral merit from the story and you wouldn't have to take such lengths to prove to yourself, a man lived to be 930 years old when there is no evidence that suggests that.
It is entirely possible that God, time and mathematics among other things only exist in the imagination.

 

[ADTClone]

Well no you're wrong AV.

Church generally did not promote science, you only have to look back at some of the greatest scientists of our time. They were bound by their religious beliefs and the church. Eg. Galileo. If the Christian teachings were so towards assisting scientific advancement, mainly the discovery that we do not live in a geocentric world, why on earth would they have restricted and placed Galileo under house arrest for claiming and presenting evidence otherwise?

Oh yeah, that's right. The church advocated and taught geocentricism and if you questioned their teachings you were ex-communicated and excluded from society. Great way to promote science!

 

[ADTClone]

I just got an infraction for saying that to them.

You see a lot of this in the book of Job. For example: "[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Then the LORD answered [/FONT]Job[FONT=arial, sans-serif] out of the whirlwind and said, “Who is this that darkens counsel By words without knowledge?" [/FONT] People believe that God gives them wisdom, knowledge and understanding. If there is no God, then did Adam just think that he heard the voice of God? Is God really just a product of our imagination?

What if all of that were true. When people go to church and worship they feel good. Maybe evolution can explain why they feel good without having to take drugs or drink. Even if there is no God what is the harm in getting together with friends and enjoying your self and having a good time?

Neurology and psychology explain those things and many studies have been done on the psychology of religion.

I personally have no problem if you want to pray in private, or at your church, or even in public. I don't have a problem if you want to get together with a bunch of friends with the same beliefs as you and have a good time.

But be truthful, that is not all that happens. People use these beliefs to provide justification for their own views. For example, some people who are against homosexuality because it says so in the Bible. I would bet all my savings that they're not against it because it says so in the Bible, that they are against it because they personally feel that it is wrong.

People use their beliefs to provide justification for teaching unproven, bogus ideas in a science class. People use their beliefs to provide justification for excluding certain members from society.. People use their beliefs, and the beliefs of others in order to control what people do.. Some people with religious beliefs scam people by claiming that they are "faith healers" and justify it through their beliefs, and use the support of other people who believe in the same belief to further justify it. These people they "heal" stop taking their medicine and sometimes die.

And that was only touching Christianity, lets go into Islam. People use their beliefs to provide justification to laws in the government to put people in jail over blasphemy. People use their beliefs to provide justification for raping woman.. Some men use their beliefs to provide justification for treating woman unequally to men. People use their beliefs to provide justification to mass murder and terrorism.. People use their beliefs to justify attacking other nations/countries. People use their beliefs to justify mutilating their children so that they are less prone to having sex.

If people who believed in a religion kept it to themselves and within their own group, and didn't try to affect other people around them who do not believe in what they do through government, culture, society and force, then I would have no problem. But that is far from what actually happens.

 

[Tatian]

You know, AV, it is very striking to me that in your original post, I could replace the word "round earth" or "heliocentric" with the word evolution and the post would be no less consistent internally. You are hypothesizing outside of the available text that God taught Adam and Even something about the nature of the world. I could use the same reasoning for evolution. That God taught them about evolution and so they were actually evolutionary biologists.

 

[Styx87]

This is a perfect example of reinterpreting what the bible says. If you read through genesis 1 (and almost all of the 15 different versions of the Christian bible the Jewish Bible and the Holy Name Bible say roughly the same thing).

In fact, here's a great way to compare what each of them say.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Just keep clicking the next arrows.

 

[Styx87]

{snip}

And that was only touching Christianity, lets go into Islam. People use their beliefs to provide justification to laws in the government to put people in jail over blasphemy. People use their beliefs to provide justification for raping woman.. Some men use their beliefs to provide justification for treating woman unequally to men. People use their beliefs to provide justification to mass murder and terrorism.. People use their beliefs to justify attacking other nations/countries. People use their beliefs to justify mutilating their children so that they are less prone to having sex.

{snip}

I have to contradict you here a little bit. If you were to ask most Muslims how they feel about The terrorists who claim to kill in the name of Islam they would tell you that they "Pervert the teaching of their god to Justify promoting their own politically and/or financially motivated agendas".

I've known and spoken to Muslims who do not condone what the Terrorists have done in the name of Islam.

Although it is no secret that Religious cleansing is a fact and there are no doubt people who have and still do kill in the name of their faith as far back as the first faith. (read any bible ever written and you can find military campaigns driven by religion.)