Flat Earth & Geocentrism

[AV1611VET]

But nobody knows what, if anything, God told Adam on the matter, so you're basically talking out of your hat.

Suit yourself ... but I'm not buying it if you think people taught flat earth and geocentrism with respect to the Scriptures.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Suit yourself ... but I'm not buying it if you think people taught flat earth and geocentrism with respect to the Scriptures.

So you don't deny that you were making baseless assumptions about what God may or may not have talked to Adam about?

Good -- then, given your own tendency to add to the Scriptures whenever it suits you, it wouldn't shock you to consider actual religious figures -- people with weight and influence in their religious communities -- doing likewise.

 

[nebulaJP]

Perhaps He is talking about the Arctic Circle?

The inhabitants referred to in that verse are presumably people of the ancient near east, not penguins.

Yes, you can spread out a sphere;

No you can't. Even the word "stretch" would be a...stretch. "Fashion" maybe.

In fact, describing the earth in two dimensions makes it easier to get your point across ... as when one talks about the four corners of the earth, or chasing someone to the ends of the earth, etc.

No it doesn't. That's why nobody talks like that unless they're historical reenactors. Nobody talks about the corners, ends or edges of the earth or uses phrases like "as far as east is from west." The only reason people ever talked like that after they found out the earth is spherical is because the Bible was such a big influence on Western culture. Now people say "all around the world," "all over the earth" etc.

 

[nebulaJP]

What were they talking about here? Some obscure, floating island in a marshland somewhere? The little bit of ocean they may be underneath some rocky, eroded coastline? Underground streams in caves?

Psalm 136:6

New King James Version (NKJV)

6 To Him who laid out the earth above the waters,
For His mercy endures forever;

 

[AV1611VET]

The inhabitants referred to in that verse are presumably people of the ancient near east, not penguins.

Um ... God was above the Arctic Circle, looking down on the people ... wherever they were.

No you can't. Even the word "stretch" would be a...stretch. "Fashion" maybe.

Yes, you can; but let's simplify this ... can God?

No it doesn't. That's why nobody talks like that unless they're historical reenactors.

If God talks like that, who am I to disagree? I've already demonstrated how you can find the four corners of a sphere, and I'm not really interested in arguing with you over this.

QV please:

If you cut an orange into four wedges, then find the center-of-mass of each wedge, how many centers-of-mass do you have?

Put those wedges back together and you have an orange with four points inside of it.

Simply balloon those points outward to the surface of the orange and what do you have?

The four corners of an orange.

You believe what you want, and I shall do the same.

 

[AV1611VET]

What were they talking about here? Some obscure, floating island in a marshland somewhere? The little bit of ocean they may be underneath some rocky, eroded coastline? Underground streams in caves?

Psalm 136:6

New King James Version (NKJV)

6 To Him who laid out the earth above the waters,
For His mercy endures forever;

JP, no offense, my friend, but I'm not going to go through verse after verse of Scripture with you, explaining things.

It's been nice chatting with you, but your questions are wearing me down, and I'm not going to look up verse after verse, just to have it handwaved away.

My OP is pretty straightforward, in my opinion, and I stand behind it.

You're certainly entitled to disagree, based on some diagram that shows the cosmology of the earth from a gnostic perspective, but I certainly don't adhere to it.

 

[nebulaJP]

Um ... God was above the Arctic Circle, looking down on the people ... wherever they were.

This is the verse:

Isaiah 40:22

New King James Version (NKJV)

22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.


In the second line, "its" seems to refer to the "circle of the earth" whatever that is. If the circle of the earth is the arctic circle, its inhabitants are penguins.

 

[nebulaJP]

JP, no offense, my friend, but I'm not going to go through verse after verse of Scripture with you, explaining things.

It's been nice chatting with you, but your questions are wearing me down, and I'm not going to look up verse after verse, just to have it handwaved away.

My OP is pretty straightforward, in my opinion, and I stand behind it.

You're certainly entitled to disagree, based on some diagram that shows the cosmology of the earth from a gnostic perspective, but I certainly don't adhere to it.

What does gnosticism have to do with this? The diagram is of a common ancient cosmology: A COMMON COSMOLOGY OF THE ANCIENT WORLD

 

[Belk]

Which loops back to the OP; if they 'knew' it, as you say they did, they 'knew' it in spite of what God told Adam, not in respect to what God told Adam.

Wait. I thought this was just a scenario you made up in your head with no support from the bible whatsoever? Now you are treating it as if it had biblical support?

 

[nebulaJP]

This picture shows what they meant by circle of the earth AV. The point of me asking about a lot of different scriptures is that, while one explanation may explain one verse adequately, when you take the mountain of pertinent scriptures together as a whole Occam's razor leads to one conclusion: the Israelites had a cosmology very similar to their neighbors. So the Bible has scientifically errant information in it. Does this mean it's not divinely inspired? Nope.

Assume the OT is divinely inspired. Why does it have so many verses describing an inaccurate cosmology? Because anything else would be "too much proof" and so there would be less opportunity for faith in the religion.

I have a version of this belief because I believe many paranormal events are real but that there is a rule against it being proven so people can believe what they want.

 

[AV1611VET]

This picture shows what they meant by circle of the earth AV.

They who? the gnostics?

This picture shows what I mean by circle of the earth JP.

I note your tenacity, but I really think you're barking up the wrong tree with this.

 

[nebulaJP]

They who? the gnostics?

They the writer/s of Isaiah 40:22. Again, what do gnostics have to do with this?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Excuse me ... God said that Joshua said ...

Got it now?

no, no, no... you say that God said that Joshua said...

Got it finally?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Even Myths reflect the truth.

Quite so -- the question is, after thousands of years of veneration, literalizing, and distortion, is it reflecting the truth in the same way as a funhouse mirror?

So it does not matter if literal or not we are still responsible to learn and abide by the lesson contained in them.

And some people miss the lesson in the literalization.

The fact that the Bible is literal--

Enjoy your funhouse.

 

[TLK Valentine]

They who? the gnostics?

This picture shows what I mean by circle of the earth JP.

So there was no Australia in the Bible? Interesting...

 

[nebulaJP]

The thing you're not understanding AV is that an inerrantist position makes Christianity weaker. If the Bible were inerrant it would be proof positive it's divinely inspired and everyone would have to believe it. There would be no need for faith.

If the god of Abraham wanted it to be known by all that it inspired the bible, everyone would know. If this deity exists it obviously wants it to be a matter of faith whether or not the bible is its word, since many don't believe the bible was inspired by any deity.

So why would your god force modern people to believe in the bible by allegedly including information in it that ancient Hebrews couldn't have known at the time, that they only could have obtained by direct revelation from God? The answer is that there is no information in the bible about a spherical earth or heliocentrism, only descriptions in line with the common cosmology of the time and place, so it's a false allegation.

You can't have it both ways. Either your god wants us to have proof or it wants us to have faith. Which is it?

 

[variant]

Here's my take on Flat Earth & Geocentrism.

I believe that God at one point showed Adam & Eve His perfect creation, during one of the many sessions where ...

Genesis 3:8a And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day:

This means that Adam & Eve believed ... and taught ... round earth and a heliocentric solar system.

Eventually, over time, and just like today, unbelievers arose; people who put more trust in their empirical senses than they did in the stories told by their ancestors.

Eventually, as the wheat outgrew the tares, flat earth and a geocentric universe became the empirical observation of the times.

Those who believed them did so in spite of what God told Adam & Eve.

In time, and under the tutelage of the Holy Spirit, scientists began to understand that the earth really is round, and our solar system really is heliocentric.

Now today, in the 21[sup]st[/sup] century, there is a tendency for some to blame the clergy and/or the Bible for espousing flat earth and geocentrism, when in fact, it was an unbelieving, rebellious generation that started it all.

There you go again AV, making stuff up out of nowhere to suit your desired interpretations of both reality and the Bible.

You really are shameless.

 

[Criada]

Mod Hat On

​

Thread closed at OP request.

Mod Hat Off​