flat earth debate

Lulav

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Now THIS IS SILLY!


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Tayla

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The modern flat earth view must deny the scientific evidence claiming it's a conspiracy involving the collusion of millions, even billions of people. And their explanation for such things including why the suns sets below the horizon makes no sense. We should even be having this debate. This is one of the worst conspiracy theories.
 
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SeventyOne

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The modern flat earth view must deny the scientific evidence claiming it's a conspiracy involving the collusion of millions, even billions of people. And their explanation for such things including why the suns sets below the horizon makes no sense. We should even be having this debate. This is one of the worst conspiracy theories.

That's actually Flat Earth 101 stuff. If you don't know their answers to these things, you aren't educated enough in the debate for others to take such an opinion seriously.
 
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JackRT

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The modern flat earth view must deny the scientific evidence claiming it's a conspiracy involving the collusion of millions, even billions of people. And their explanation for such things including why the suns sets below the horizon makes no sense. We should even be having this debate. This is one of the worst conspiracy theories.

Over the last while I have been pondering a phenomenon that has actually been going for a very long time. I am referring to Denialists and Conspiracy Theorists. While they might seem to be different behaviours, I think they have a commonality in the sort of mind that subscribes to them. What also struck me as curious is the number of them that are centered around science, technology and medicine. Let me list a few.

>> the link between tobacco and cancer, particularly lung cancer

>> the fluoridation of water supplies to prevent tooth decay

>> the role of chlorofluorinated hydrocarbons in the deterioration of the ozone layer

>> the build up of DDT in the food chain and its effect on both reproduction success in birds and human health.

>> the link between HIV and AIDS

>> the role of vaccination in causing other health issues

>> the historicity of the moon landings

>>UFOs and aliens

>>flat earth (in a resurgence at the moment)

>> chemtrails

>> the human role in CO2 production and climate change

This is hardly an exhaustive list and it is easy to also point out others that have very little, if any, linkage to science, technology or medicine. For example, the historicity of the Holocaust, of the Twin Towers, of the assassination of President Kennedy and of both President Obama's birth place and religion.

What most puzzles me most is the state of mind of both those who advocate these theories and those who so readily subscribe to them. I will throw out a few random thoughts here in the hope that they will generate some discussion.

>> fear and powerlessness --- people feel overwhelmed by events that are beyond their control and require a scapegoat on which to pin their frustration and their anger.

>> fear and ignorance --- people are frightened by their own lack of understanding of the concepts and issues involved and suggest that 'the intellectuals' are trying to put one over on them.

>> the 'little guy syndrome' --- people fear big organizations, big government in particular, and feel the need to lash out at them by suggesting that the little guy is being somehow exploited.

>>contrarianism --- some people love to be different just for the sake of it

>>special knowledge syndrome --- a form of elitism where people like to feel they have some special or secret knowledge that makes them feel smarter and/or better informed than the rest, even if it doesn't have much practical application.

>> religion and political ideologies --- in at least a few cases the culprit is viewed as challenging religious and/or political beliefs.

To illustrate this last point we could look at two examples.

Political --- the fluoridation of water supplies to prevent tooth decay was opposed as a tactic by communists to poison the whole nation. This was particularly effective in the days of the 'red menace' but has a modern counterpart in the paranoia surrounding international terrorism.

Religious --- new technologies are viewed as challenging religious understandings. This goes back a long way in history. Two hundred years ago Timothy Dwight, Presbyterian minister and president of Yale University wrote “If God had decreed from all eternity that a certain person should die of smallpox, it would be a frightful sin to avoid and annul that decree by the trick of vaccination.” Today we see an echo of that religious fear in the debate surrounding stem cell research.

My final observation is that it seems to me that denialists, conspiracy theorists, and biblical fundamentalists / creationists are often the same people.
 
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SeventyOne

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My final observation is that it seems to me that denialists, conspiracy theorists, and biblical fundamentalists / creationists are often the same people.

So, the flip side to that would be those people who readily just accept what they've been told to believe without question would be biblical liberals and evolutionists?
 
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JackRT

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So, the flip side to that would be those people who readily just accept what they've been told to believe without question would be biblical liberals and evolutionists?

I am sure there might be a few but as not as much as the converse.
 
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JackRT

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No idea how you could ever justify such a claim.

Liberals or radicals are those people willing to think outside the box, to innovate, to take chances, to be the instrument of change.

Tony Campolo, a Christian motivational speaker, has said. "Conservatives are people who worship at the graves of dead radicals. Stop to think about that. The people who started this country, George Washington, Jefferson, Hamilton, these were not conservatives; these were the radicals of the time. In fact, conservatives always look back on people who they despised and make them into heroes. If you were to listen to the religious right today, they would make you believe that Martin Luther King was one of their flock. In reality, they hated him and did everything they could to destroy him."

You also denigrated evolutionists. While it is true that not all evolutionists are scientists, it is also true that virtually all scientists are evolutionists. Why is this so? Scientists are trained to ask questions, to be skeptical, to demand evidence. Scientists accept evolution as a theory because the evidence is there and the theory works. If another theory should challenge evolution, scientists would be naturally skeptical but if the evidence supported the new theory it would eventually displace evolution.
 
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SeventyOne

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Liberals or radicals are those people willing to think outside the box, to innovate, to take chances, to be the instrument of change.

Tony Campolo, a Christian motivational speaker, has said. "Conservatives are people who worship at the graves of dead radicals. Stop to think about that. The people who started this country, George Washington, Jefferson, Hamilton, these were not conservatives; these were the radicals of the time. In fact, conservatives always look back on people who they despised and make them into heroes. If you were to listen to the religious right today, they would make you believe that Martin Luther King was one of their flock. In reality, they hated him and did everything they could to destroy him."

You also denigrated evolutionists. While it is true that not all evolutionists are scientists, it is also true that virtually all scientists are evolutionists. Why is this so? Scientists are trained to ask questions, to be skeptical, to demand evidence. Scientists accept evolution as a theory because the evidence is there and the theory works. If another theory should challenge evolution, scientists would be naturally skeptical but if the evidence supported the new theory it would eventually displace evolution.


I denigrated evolutionists? All I did was take the flip side of your own comment. You don't like it? Too bad. Since it mirrored your own statement, you now know exactly how you sounded.

Seems to me many scientists are evolutionists because they've been taught within the framework of that lie and can't see outside of it. There is no thinking outside the box for them. They are stuck right inside of it and may never figure it out for themselves. Blind people claiming to see.

I don't know why you are trying to make this a political liberal/conservative thing. I never mentioned anything about that aspect.
 
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JackRT

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I don't know why you are trying to make this a political liberal/conservative thing. I never mentioned anything about that aspect.

In my experience the "liberal/conservative thing" works whether you are speaking of a political or a religious ideology.
 
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Rick Otto

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The modern flat earth view must deny the scientific evidence claiming it's a conspiracy involving the collusion of millions, even billions of people. And their explanation for such things including why the suns sets below the horizon makes no sense. We should even be having this debate. This is one of the worst conspiracy theories.
Yes, in one sense. In another, it is the best.
Any materialistic theory is going to eventually break down in an energy universe where matter is an illusion.
 
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Edison Trent

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I don't understand the question.
8" squared is 64".

The formula is not squared, it is 8 inch curve per mile straight ahead every mile.

Say a tall building is 240 feet tall and it is viewed from a distance of 60 miles with no obstructions, the person can only see 200 feet of the building,

8x60=480 inches
480 = 40 feet
 
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Shemjaza

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That's actually Flat Earth 101 stuff. If you don't know their answers to these things, you aren't educated enough in the debate for others to take such an opinion seriously.
That's the assertion, but I've yet to be presented with consistent justifications for sun set that don't violate simple applications of Pythagoras's theorem and a telescope.

And that doesn't begin to explain the consistent stars of the southern hemisphere or the flight distances between southern hemisphere locations.
 
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Edison Trent

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That's the assertion, but I've yet to be presented with consistent justifications for sun set that don't violate simple applications of Pythagoras's theorem and a telescope.

And that doesn't begin to explain the consistent stars of the southern hemisphere or the flight distances between southern hemisphere locations.

One year in the galaxy is 240 million years long on earth time and a mere 365 days in our solar system is a year, yea you are not going to see any change in stars of the Galaxy. It takes 240 million years for our solar system to make one full rotation around the Galaxy center.
 
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SeventyOne

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The formula is not squared, it is 8 inch curve per mile straight ahead every mile.

Say a tall building is 240 feet tall and it is viewed from a distance of 60 miles with no obstructions, the person can only see 200 feet of the building,

8x60=480 inches
480 = 40 feet

You might want to try an earth curve calculator since you don't know the formula.

Earth Curve Calculator

According to the calculator, looking from ground level (0 feet) to an object 60 miles away, would result in 2,400 feet of the object being hidden, not 40 feet. Your calculation has us living on a slope, not a sphere.

(60^2 * 8)/12 = 2,400 feet

Try it out for yourself. That calc matches the earth curvature calculator, which in no way reflects reality.
 
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mmksparbud

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View attachment 208853

This thread has been cleaned of
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Now THIS IS SILLY!


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NO!! That is adorably silly!!!
 
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SeventyOne

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That's the assertion, but I've yet to be presented with consistent justifications for sun set that don't violate simple applications of Pythagoras's theorem and a telescope.

And that doesn't begin to explain the consistent stars of the southern hemisphere or the flight distances between southern hemisphere locations.

There are people who have touched on this stuff in depth. So, it's there if you want to be presented with it.
 
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There are people who have touched on this stuff in depth. So, it's there if you want to be presented with it.
Could you give me an address or link to a thread?

One year in the galaxy is 240 million years long on earth time and a mere 365 days in our solar system is a year, yea you are not going to see any change in stars of the Galaxy. It takes 240 million years for our solar system to make one full rotation around the Galaxy center.
I don't understand your point.

I was commenting on the fact that people in the northern hemisphere see one set of stars and people in the southern hemisphere see a different (consistent) set.

In the flat Earth model all people in the southern hemisphere are on the outer edge of enormous flat disk, but see the same stars.
 
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