Flag burning-free speech or not?

[pgp_protector]

not all are violent. those who choose not to be violent.. literally weep over it being burned. You have no idea.

Well this Vet weeps over people trampling over the 1st Amendment, and approving of violence for speech that they don't like.

 

[Farmer4Christ]

Well, our collective rights as Americans are being trampled on everyday by warhawks, liars, thieves, torturers, out of control intelligence programs, bought-and-paid-for judges and politicians, banksters, and so on.

How is America strong? We are terrified of every shadow/bump in the night, and we have and continue to commit crimes against humanity frequently. We skirt the law, we suppress journalists, we hide the truth, we torture, we don't practice justice, and we murder without trial. America lies constantly, we suppress free speech movements, and we have a for-profit prison system that has less to do with rehabilitation and reconciliation and more about cheap labor and boosting the for-profit prison system's bottom line. Where is our compassion, love, sense of justice, willingness to listen, and kindness -- the virtues that are a true measure of strength?

Also, what freedoms? Here are some freedoms we have lost since 9/11:
nyclu.org/pdfs/eroding_liberty.pdf

I criticize America because I hold it to the standard it has set for itself just like I was held to a standard when I joined the military. If America fancies itself as a paragon of freedom and justice it needs to be held to that standard. Burning a flag that supposedly represents freedom and justice doesn't make any sense if that standard isn't being held.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Well this Vet weeps over people trampling over the 1st Amendment, and approving of violence for speech that they don't like.

I am not approving of the violence. I am pointing out the consequences of their actions.

 

[pgp_protector]

I am not a violent man, but go ahead. express your grief in burning the flag, and I will express my grief of you burning it by punching you square in the face. There is a proper way to brun the flag. I suggest you turn it into the boy scouts for disposal. They tend to know it and do it for free. it means a lot more to me, because I've sen it draped over my friends as they are buried.

I am not approving of the violence. I am pointing out the consequences of their actions.

So you don't approve of the violence you yourself say you would do ?

Do you normally publicly state you'll do things you don't approve of?

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

So you don't approve of the violence you yourself say you would do ?

Do you normally publicly state you'll do things you don't approve of?

You obviously miss my follow up post where I admit I probably wouldn't do it didn't you?

 

[SteveNZ]

...... How is America strong? We are terrified of every shadow/bump in the night, and we have and continue to commit crimes against humanity frequently. We skirt the law, we suppress journalists, we hide the truth, we torture, we don't practice justice, and we murder without trial......

WOW...
Hi Farmer4Christ,

As an 'alien' (LOL = non USA on your forms) married to a lovely US bride I see how neat the USA is. Warts and all ... I would never describe the USA as you do......

If you find it that bad I will take your place!
The good about the USA is worth fighting for and if I was living there I would get out there in the community and serve folk doing something about the bad bits.

PS-New Zealand is a fantastic place to live. I am not knocking my country at all with these views.

 

[Farmer4Christ]

WOW...
Hi Farmer4Christ,

As an 'alien' (LOL = non USA on your forms) married to a lovely US bride I see how neat the USA is. Warts and all ... I would never describe the USA as you do......

If you find it that bad I will take your place!
The good about the USA is worth fighting for and if I was living there I would get out there in the community and serve folk doing something about the bad bits.

PS-New Zealand is a fantastic place to live. I am not knocking my country at all with these views.

The good of America IS worth preserving, but I view it from the perspective that we MUST acknowledge what we are doing wrong and work toward fixing the problems that are harming people not only domestically, but abroad as well. I can't pretend that we stand for truth and justice when that hasn't been happening, and I feel that I must speak out against injustices for the purposes of correction.

You may see beauty warts and all, but the image America puts out is that it has no warts -- I'm saying that it does have warts and that it should acknowledge them.

Though just to put my commentary in context so that I don't come across as unjustly harsh to America: I disagreed with the economic system so I became part of a group of people that is building an alternative system that is people-driven, not profit driven. I saw several things that the military were doing wrong so I spoke out against it, I saw a revolving door in prisons so I'm introducing farming to prisons so prisoners can make their own paradise when they leave. I'm not blowing my own horn, but I wanted to say to you that if I do see something wrong that I just won't just complain about them, but I will at least try to fix them.

 

[SteveNZ]

The good of America IS worth preserving, but I view it from the perspective that we MUST acknowledge what we are doing wrong and work toward fixing the problems ................

...........I wanted to say to you that if I do see something wrong that I just won't just complain about them, but I will at least try to fix them.

I missed that. Good on you....

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

So far it doesn't seem like anyone is saying that it should be illegal. Wow, no devil's advocate?

 

[keith99]

So far it doesn't seem like anyone is saying that it should be illegal. Wow, no devil's advocate?

Well it should be subject the same laws as burning anything else.

If they lock people up for burning leaves then they should for burning flags.

 

[Farmer4Christ]

I missed that. Good on you....

Yeah sometimes I do come across as overly harsh without explaining myself -- I need to work on that lol.

 

[Red Fox]

I have no problem burning an American flag, if I had one. I don't even own one, never have, never will, although I did participate in a protest once and carried one upside down. I was on the opposite side of a pro-American rally. All of the patriotic idol worship over America makes me sick to my stomach.

“An upside down flag is an international signal of distress… now we, the Indian nations, are in distress. I will wear this flag upside down as long as my people are in distress!” - Russell Means, Lakota (1939 – 2012) - Russell Means, A Portrait

 

[SteveNZ]

Well it should be subject the same laws as burning anything else.

If they lock people up for burning leaves then they should for burning flags.

The flag is not an item like a leaf or firewood. It is a symbol with an important meaning.

CRIMINAL? - I think it should be a crime.
Folk knowing that to deliberately burn a USA flag to make a point should know it comes with 1 year (possibly more) in prison and/or $50,000 fine. Each judge shall decide the extent on a case by case basis.

 

[stamperben]

Well it should be subject the same laws as burning anything else.

If they lock people up for burning leaves then they should for burning flags.

I burn my leaves. What if I use the flag to get the wet leaves going?

 

[SepiaAndDust]

The flag is not an item like a leaf or firewood. It is a symbol with an important meaning.

An important meaning?

I think that a flag means something different to each person.

Nevertheless, destroying symbols that have important meanings is protected by the freedoms guaranteed in our Constitution.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

An important meaning?

I think that a flag means something different to each person.

Nevertheless, destroying symbols that have important meanings is protected by the freedoms guaranteed in our Constitution.

Yeah thats pretty true.. doesn't that crazy pastor in florida keep getting in trouble for burning the koran[ or trying to burn it] every year?

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

If I can't burn my Flags, how else am I to dispose of it?

Throw them in the trash.

 

[pgp_protector]

Throw them in the trash.

You do realize that Burning the Flag is the Preferred way to dispose of a flag that is no longer serviceable.
USFlag.org: A website dedicated to the Flag of the United States of America - United States Code

(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.

 

[poolerboy0077]

I am not a violent man, but go ahead. express your grief in burning the flag, and I will express my grief of you burning it by punching you square in the face.

So one person destroys their private property which constitutes an inanimate object and you react by a criminal act of violence based on becoming offended over the desecration of said inanimate object. Brilliant

 

[abysmul]

I have a funny feeling that those that want jail for flag burners, would NOT be the first to object when certain Presidents are burned in effigy.