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Verse 3 is sheep.Why didn't you quote John?
1 John 2
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
Sticking with Ephesians, in chapter 2 he saysGood point I believe Ephesians 1 addressed this:
Ephesians 1: NASB
11also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
Amen. I have found that the more I read and study the Bible cover to cover each year the more I am reminded God created everything which was a love letter in itself. We are His creation and He has put up with a lot of our disobedience. He is under no obligation to save any of us but in His Love sends the Divine Logos His Beloved Son in Whom He is well pleased to save us.Sticking with Ephesians, in chapter 2 he says
1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience-
3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. - Ephesians 2:1-3
There’s nothing different about our nature and those who will suffer eternal torment.
Verse 4, though, says this
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, - Ephesians 2:4
He shows mercy because of His love. He saves us. Even when we were dead, He made us alive. It’s all about Him.
Take in the entire dialogue in John 10 and we see the sheep hear His voice and follow Him. That’s the sheepish effectual call. But not stopping there Jesus says the Father gives Him the sheep.This verse does not say that Jesus calls His sheep to the sheep pen.
This verse says that the SHEEP (already saved) know His voice.
So I'm not sure how you think that verse is about calling anything because it is about those who are already sheep.
The folks trying to climb in are false shepherds. The context tells us this:Why would Christ not let them enter if they want to enter by Him (Christ) who is the gate?
Actually Total depravity is original sin. Augustine believed it and so does your church.If man is a free agent, his nature is not to ALWAYS sin. Total depravity is Calvinism.
You mean in human terms?BUT but but Calvinists say there is nothing upon which God varies his decision regarding his predestination.
Regardless of theology we know some will reject Christ and be goats on Judgement day.Don't forget that part of the "monster" charge is that God creates people for no other ultimate purpose other than damnation.
I thought Universalist Reconciliation was condemned by the Catholic Church.In my system, if a judge decides a person is guilty before hearing the case, he is unjust. In the case of the Calvinistic god, it is a thousand times more egregious because this god is actually bringing these damned souls into existence. Why would any god create a soul just to do nothing but send them to hell? It is the very definition of sadistic.
And why would anyone worship such a god? This soooo disturbs me.
Judas did not get that memo.Part of justice is treating everyone with the same even hand.
The other 11 disciples benefited from “preferential treatment” even though they cut and ran on their Rabbi and one even denied Him three times. Why were they preserved to be restored and Judas not?You don't give someone preferential treatment.
And when I am in charge of groups of any sort, whether they are my third grade class or my men's group therapy, the rule is if you bring anything special, you can't bring it for just some, you have to bring it for everyone.
I thought Universalist Reconciliation was condemned by the Catholic Church.
Reformed assumptions lead to Biblical teachings. Augustine had no issues with predestination because he proved it from the Scriptures.God IS creator. Why are we doing a hypothetical god who is not creator? The whole point of my argument is to show where Calvinist assumptions lead.
No God does not force us and I am at odds to see where even Calvin taught that. People equate predestination, which the Apostle Paul teaches, with forced kicking and screaming conversion. It’s not.I don't think Open Heart was advocating Universalist Reconciliation. What I heard advocated was that God loves all the souls he brings into the world and does not will that any should perish. Therefore we each are given our figurative 'day in court'--that is a REALLY open ended metaphor--and all can choose whether to love God or not, to accept the salvation offered by the Christ or reject it. I don't presume to know what, if any, provisions are made for unbelievers or what opportunities they may have, but that is between them and God.
I am 100% convinced that God does not force me to love and obey Him. If He did, he would do a much better job of it than I do for sure. I do pray that He will continue to help me get better at it though.
Why do some exercise a free will of disobedience and some obedience to God’s call to Salvation in Jesus Christ?No. I believe in free will. I believe that some hate authority and literally choose hell rather than be under God's thumb. But there is no real litmus test to know who is going to hell.
That didn't answer the question.
In your system, does He have to create those He knows He'll send to hell?
I'm not going to answer a non sequitur.
We do understand this obvious point. We call it God’s Sovereign will and purpose which the NT speaks of often and only mentions human free will once in John 1 and not favorably.Of course it's a serious question. What have they done to deserve to be loved less than those who are saved? There should be some criteria. If it's random, it's unjust. It is shocking to me that Calvinists don't understand this obvious point.
No Reformed theology teaches what the Bible teaches. We have a will and we make choices based on this will. It is free in the context of what we are in bondage to. Romans 6 makes this clear. Our will is either in bondage to sin leading to death or we are in bondage to God’s righteousness. The former is a will in bondage to the flesh and the latter to Christ.You are not being honest. Calvinism teaches that there is no free will.
Calvin wasn’t the first. St Paul was.By good I mean obey God and seek God. Calvinism teaches that man cannot seek God on his own, without grace.
I am a Reformed Baptist, and Calvinism seems to understand the actual process of salvation of God much better than any other system of theology...I believe what you outline above is what’s called common grace and not Prevenient Grace.
However, if this is how you consider some do and some do not come to Christ “choosing” Him it is very erratic and uneven. The spark you speak of is not even close to equal and would be making God capricious. Where’s the Justice or fairness in that.
I would love to psychoanalyze this but mostly they come here to troll.
We are all fallen. That is a fact. We all need Jesus.
I understand where you are coming from on where Christ died for all. It’s a general title of Savior of the world and many, not you, take it to the level of Universal salvation where all will be in the Kingdom of God. But we know not all will accept Christ. The Scriptures show is this.
We do know from the words of Jesus that everyone the Father gives Christ He will lose none and raise them up on the last day. That of course is truth from His own lips. He also said He lays His life down for the sheep. In the same chapter of John 10 He clearly tells some opposing Him they are not His sheep. And that the Father gives Christ the sheep and they will not perish.
So we are all condemned sinners by nature (Romans 3 Romans 4 and Romans 5) and Christ reconciles us by His shed blood.
I agree. I get grief with some of my brothers and sisters when I say I am a Biblicist first. I adopted that from Charles Spurgeon who was one of the most devoted evangelists and also of Reformed theology. But all Reformed will admit they hold to the 5 Solas for doctrine. Sola Scriptura as the Reformers taught compels us to test all doctrines with the infallible Word of God.
That is why I am Reformed, because it is based on Biblical truth and addresses all the doctrines of Holy Scriptures systematically. Meaning taking the full revelation of God in Scriptures into account.
Me too.
We are free to choose, but due to having sin natures, we are now limited in our available options to choose from!No Reformed theology teaches what the Bible teaches. We have a will and we make choices based on this will. It is free in the context of what we are in bondage to. Romans 6 makes this clear. Our will is either in bondage to sin leading to death or we are in bondage to God’s righteousness. The former is a will in bondage to the flesh and the latter to Christ.
Reformed believe, as the Apostle Peter did, that when Christ was arrested, tried and executed that such was the predestined plan of God. We also believe the Sanhedrin and Pilate acted with no coercion according to their will.
See Acts of the Apostles 2:22-24 and Acts of the Apostles 4:27-28
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