Five Misconceptions About Calvinism

[Hammster]

Think about it. "before" they enter.

In contrast to "when/during" they enter.

Your issue is that your theology is tied to the sheep being saved before they enter. But they are not sheep before they enter.

Then they aren't allowed to enter.

And no, I don't believe they are saved before they enter.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Then they aren't allowed to enter.

And no, I don't believe they are saved before they enter.

I don't think you are visualizing this.

A sheep pen is where Christ's sheep are. A person has to be saved to be a sheep.

So if someone enter's the sheep pen through the gate (ie Jesus Christ), than that is a parable about becoming saved and becoming a sheep and entering the sheep pen through Christ.

Why would Christ not let them enter if they want to enter by Him (Christ) who is the gate?

 

[ToBeLoved]

I think you guys are purposely being obtuse. I'm leaving. I have better things to do with my time.

 

[Hammster]

I don't think you are visualizing this.

A sheep pen is where Christ's sheep are. A person has to be saved to be a sheep.

So if someone enter's the sheep pen through the gate (ie Jesus Christ), than that is a parable about becoming saved and becoming a sheep and entering the sheep pen through Christ.

What part of this do you not understand?

You said that they aren't sheep before they enter. Now you say they become sheep and enter the sheep pen.

Which is it?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I hope this thread gets back on track.

So do I.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

What time you got there doc?

Time for you to answer some questions.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Then they aren't allowed to enter.

And no, I don't believe they are saved before they enter.

They are sheep before they enter, however.

 

[Hammster]

They are sheep before they enter, however.

Exactly.

 

[Hammster]

I think you guys are purposely being obtuse. I'm leaving. I have better things to do with my time.

I think it's better to admit that you know that non-sheep can't enter, but you keep saying that they become sheep after they enter, and you cannot reconcile the two views.

 

[Meowzltov]

Below are 5 common misconceptions about Calvinism. Please post either in either pro or anti arguments on any of these 5 misconceptions. (yes, they are all misconceptions)

1. It kills evangelism

2. It is a man-made doctrine

3. It eliminates free will and human responsibility

4. It promotes “easy believism”

5. It makes God a moral monster

The five facts about Calvinism, especially #5.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

The five facts about Calvinism, especially #5.

At anytime, feel free to make a comment or ask a question that contributes to the discussion and is inline with the OP.

 

[Meowzltov]

At anytime, feel free to make a comment or ask a question that contributes to the discussion and is inline with the OP.

Let's take just point number five, since the others are just bad theology, but number 5 is the one that gets me all angry.

According to Calvinism, God decides before he even created the world who was going to be saved and who would not. He did not imbue us with free will -- we have no choice in the matter. Where we end up depends solely on this predetermined choice. THEN, after deciding who, through no fault of their own, would not be saved, he has the audacity to punish them.

THAT IS NOT JUST. This is a monster god. It is not the God that Jesus taught, not the Christian God. The God of the Bible "so loved the WORLD" that He gave his only begotten son.

 

[Hammster]

Let's take just point number five, since the others are just bad theology, but number 5 is the one that gets me all angry.

According to Calvinism, God decides before he even created the world who was going to be saved and who would not. He did not imbue us with free will -- we have no choice in the matter. Where we end up depends solely on this predetermined choice. THEN, after deciding who, through no fault of their own, would not be saved, he has the audacity to punish them.

THAT IS NOT JUST. This is a monster god. It is not the God that Jesus taught, not the Christian God. The God of the Bible "so loved the WORLD" that He gave his only begotten son.

What if man is a free agent (can chose to do or not do, according to his nature) and his nature is to always sin and be an enemy of God. God decides to love some folks, so He gives them a new nature and they freely choose to love Him.

Would that make Him a monster?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Let's take just point number five, since the others are just bad theology, but number 5 is the one that gets me all angry.

According to Calvinism, God decides before he even created the world who was going to be saved and who would not. He did not imbue us with free will -- we have no choice in the matter. Where we end up depends solely on this predetermined choice. THEN, after deciding who, through no fault of their own, would not be saved, he has the audacity to punish them.

THAT IS NOT JUST. This is a monster god. It is not the God that Jesus taught, not the Christian God. The God of the Bible "so loved the WORLD" that He gave his only begotten son.

What you've posted is not a Calvinistic position.

 

[Meowzltov]

What you've posted is not a Calvinistic position.

What? Predestination is not a Calvinistic position? I showed how predestination effects those not predestined to salvation. Show me PRECISELY where I am wrong.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

What? Predestination is not a Calvinistic position? I showed how predestination effects those not predestined to salvation. Show me PRECISELY where I am wrong.

Look it up.

 

[Meowzltov]

What if man is a free agent (can chose to do or not do, according to his nature) and his nature is to always sin and be an enemy of God. God decides to love some folks, so He gives them a new nature and they freely choose to love Him.

Would that make Him a monster?

If man is a free agent, his nature is not to ALWAYS sin. Total depravity is Calvinism. God does not love just SOME folks. That is also Calvinism. We do not need a new nature to choose to love God. All we need to do is reach out and accept the grace that God offers us.

 

[Meowzltov]

Look it up.

If you don't want to defend your position, all the better for me.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

So you'd rather lose the argument... Fine with me.

I will debate anyone who understands what they are debating.

 

[Meowzltov]

I will debate anyone who understands what they are debating.

You won't defend you position. You want to take the easy road out by CLAIMING I don't understand. The truth is, you don't want to articulate. You want to just make your points without arguments, and say "You're wrong" without elucidation. That kind of thing doesn't fly.