Fish who won't evolve.

[quatona]

Your analogy works if it is a claim of intellect, but not about something over the horizon, and no amount of demonstrating or explaining will do what needs to be done. Discovering the truth, is all on you. I don't need to tell you, and I don't need you to know. But the best that can be done with information about what is over the horizon, is to share it...and I have.

No, you haven´t. All you shared and keep sharing is the information that it´s over the horizon, and that therefore you can´t share it.

 

[Extraneous]

Some people read the bible and feel shame and fear, others read it and feel mercy and peace. God works on the hearts of both, but they see different things. This is what it means to see into the dark. God opens our eyes and shows us our self. He shows us a part of him as well. Its a spiritual thing. I cannot put it under a microscope so you can observe it, but is real to me non the less.

 

[Davian]

Im just a man who came to a Christian web sight and got mocked by non Christians trolls.

I just came to this discussion board to get some insight into the religious, and then someone like Scott joins and (in his own words) treats myself and others like "deadbeat couch potatoes". Who is the troll in this context?

 

[Extraneous]

I just came to this discussion board to get some insight into the religious, and then someone like Scott joins and (in his own words) treats myself and others like "deadbeat couch potatoes". Who is the troll in this context?

I think we all struggle with social media. The internet is a tough place sometimes.

 

[Davian]

I think we all struggle with social media. The internet is a tough place sometimes.

Indeed, but I do keep in mind that the statement of purpose of this forum we find ourselves in reads that is is for the "Critical examination of the rational grounds of our most fundamental beliefs and logical analysis of the basic concepts employed in the expression of such beliefs."

Some people read the bible and feel shame and fear, others read it and feel mercy and peace. God works on the hearts of both, but they see different things. This is what it means to see into the dark. God opens our eyes and shows us our self. He shows us a part of him as well. Its a spiritual thing. I cannot put it under a microscope so you can observe it, but is real to me non the less.

With this forum's statement of purpose in mind, why should I consider what you feel to be real as an accurate description of reality? Scott seems to feel that we should just take his word for it.

 

[Extraneous]

Indeed, but I do keep in mind that the statement of purpose of this forum we find ourselves in reads that is is for the "Critical examination of the rational grounds of our most fundamental beliefs and logical analysis of the basic concepts employed in the expression of such beliefs."

With this forum's statement of purpose in mind, why should I consider what you feel to be real as an accurate description of reality? Scott seems to feel that we should just take his word for it.

You dont need to do anything friend. Im only a participant in a forum discussion. Your life doesn't revolve around me

 

[Davian]

You dont need to do anything friend. Im only a participant in a forum discussion. Your life doesn't revolve around me

How does that address my post?

 

[Extraneous]

How does that address my post?

How does it not?

 

[Deidre32]

The greatest of ironies exist among Atheists and scientists, who campaign for evolution, but cannot even conceive evolving themselves or ascending to anything higher than their best organic self.

Nonetheless, they end up here, here at the edge of their physical world gazing shoreward, not knowing there is more than a world above their own, but also waters above and beyond. These are fish out of water, and their instinct is to wiggle and fight and return to the sea...and why wouldn't they? Their eyes cannot see above, even in the air, let alone the waters above.

For most of us, it was fishers of men that lured us in. Some were born flying fish. Some didn't wait to be caught, but jumped in the boat. But the fish analogy only goes so far to explain, that like the waters below, there is also waters above, that great reef in the sky.

But how do you tell a fish that will not evolve about dry land, or prove what is dry...while immersed? How do you tell a landlocked fish about other waters, when they cannot and will not come out of the water?

Treating them like deadbeat couch potatoes isn't working. Any ideas?

PS, Greeting them with open arms isn't really working either. Isaiah 65:2

Is this an allegory for people who won't convert to Christianity? lol

 

[Catherineanne]

The greatest of ironies exist among Atheists and scientists, who campaign for evolution, but cannot even conceive evolving themselves or ascending to anything higher than their best organic self.

Nonetheless, they end up here, here at the edge of their physical world gazing shoreward, not knowing there is more than a world above their own, but also waters above and beyond. These are fish out of water, and their instinct is to wiggle and fight and return to the sea...and why wouldn't they? Their eyes cannot see above, even in the air, let alone the waters above.

For most of us, it was fishers of men that lured us in. Some were born flying fish. Some didn't wait to be caught, but jumped in the boat. But the fish analogy only goes so far to explain, that like the waters below, there is also waters above, that great reef in the sky.

But how do you tell a fish that will not evolve about dry land, or prove what is dry...while immersed? How do you tell a landlocked fish about other waters, when they cannot and will not come out of the water?

Treating them like deadbeat couch potatoes isn't working. Any ideas?

PS, Greeting them with open arms isn't really working either. Isaiah 65:2

Individuals do not evolve. Species do.

Individual fish do not make a choice to 'not evolve.' Their situation determines whether their species needs to adapt; if it doesn't need to, it won't.

Education =/= evolution.

Wilful ignorance =/= Christianity.

#epicsciencefail

#epicprojection

 

[TheQuietRiot]

Some people read the bible and feel shame and fear, others read it and feel mercy and peace. God works on the hearts of both, but they see different things. This is what it means to see into the dark. God opens our eyes and shows us our self. He shows us a part of him as well. Its a spiritual thing. I cannot put it under a microscope so you can observe it, but is real to me non the less.

What does it mean if I read it and feel amusement?

 

[Extraneous]

What does it mean if I read it and feel amusement?

The bible teaches us that man fades away like grass. Its true. WE are all fading away, growing old. Our dreams fading away as well. Death isn't amusing. Life is a gift, a God given gift. That's the good news.

 

[Catherineanne]

What does it mean if I read it and feel amusement?

That means it was not a waste of time.

 

[Catherineanne]

The bible teaches us that man fades away like grass. Its true. WE are all fading away, growing old. Our dreams fading away as well. Death isn't amusing. Life is a gift, a God given gift. That's the good news.

Not so.

The good news is that Christ came to offer mankind full reconciliation to God, through belief in him. The good news is not that we are all fading away.

#gospelfail

 

[Extraneous]

Not so.

The good news is that Christ came to offer mankind full reconciliation to God, through belief in him. The good news is not that we are all fading away.

#gospelfail

You misread my post. I said that life was the good news.

 

[Catherineanne]

Indeed, but I do keep in mind that the statement of purpose of this forum we find ourselves in reads that is is for the "Critical examination of the rational grounds of our most fundamental beliefs and logical analysis of the basic concepts employed in the expression of such beliefs."

It might be best to consider that an aspirational comment.

With this forum's statement of purpose in mind, why should I consider what you feel to be real as an accurate description of reality? Scott seems to feel that we should just take his word for it.

I am afraid for many Christians subjective reality is confused for the objective kind. They simply do not realise that there is a difference. A faith based on a personal relationship with a personal god who far too often becomes an extension of the ego is not going to tend towards evidence testing and rationality. There are Christians who are happy with evidence testing, but this Forum will not tend to produce many of them. Its bias is very much towards evangelical, emotional and 'the Bible says it, case closed' thinking.

 

[Catherineanne]

You misread my post. I said that life was the good news.

How amusing.

That isn't it either.

 

[Extraneous]

How amusing.

That isn't it either.

The Way. Truth, and Life

 

[TheQuietRiot]

The bible teaches us that man fades away like grass. Its true. WE are all fading away, growing old. Our dreams fading away as well. Death isn't amusing. Life is a gift, a God given gift. That's the good news.

It isn't good news for a lot of people. Many people live short, miserable lives due to no fault of their own.

There are children starving to death as we speak across the world, children dying from disease and even predation. When I look back across the entire history of the human species it's clear that until quite recently (around 10,000 years ago) most of mankind lived in poor conditions in a daily struggle to survive. I can't reconcile this reality with the god of the bible.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

What has spirituality given us?

As I see it, it has inspired some sublime art and literature (and some execrable art & literature). This is an example of the power of the deep emotional commitments it can produce. But, of course spirituality isn't the only source of deep emotional commitment, and it doesn't necessarily mean that the focus of spirituality is rational, reasonable, right, or true.

As Carl Sagan said in "The Demon-Haunted World":

When we finally come to terms with it (science) and fully recognize its beauty and its power, we will find, in spiritual as well as in practical matters, that we have made a bargain strongly in our favor.

But superstition and pseudoscience keep getting in the way, distracting us, providing easy answers, dodging skeptical scrutiny, casually pressing our awe buttons and cheapening the experience, making us routine and comfortable practitioners as well as victims of credulity.

In its encounter with Nature, science invariably elicits a sense of reverence and awe. The very act of understanding is a celebration of joining, merging, even if on a very modest scale, with the magnificence of the Cosmos. And the cumulative worldwide build-up of knowledge over time converts science into something only a little short of a trans-national, trans-generational meta-mind.

“Spirit” comes from the Latin word “to breathe.” What we breathe is air, which is certainly matter, however thin. Despite usage to the contrary, there is no necessary implication in the word “spiritual” that we are talking of anything other than matter (including the matter of which the brain is made), or anything outside the realm of science. On occasion, I will feel free to use the word. Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual. So are our emotions in the presence of great art or music or literature, or of acts of exemplary selfless courage such as those of Mohandas Gandhi or Martin Luther King Jr. The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both.

Richard Feynman also had a contribution to make on this: