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That is what happens daily throughout history. They do live on and continue their evil. Is it God that continues "to allow him to live on his good world among his people?"
Yes. God, in his patience, wisdom, and mercy allows the wicked to persist for a time. But he will ultimately call them to account. But if you deny hell then you seem to suggest that God ought to allow them to persist forever. No?
I believe in God's justice nut I believe even more strongly in God's compassion. We can only speculate about what happens after death, if anything at all.
Yes, that was the opinion of John of Patmos. I was speaking of the original meaning and intent of Hebrew scripture. You are aware, aren't you, that Job is a fictional allegorical story created to teach a lesson?
But The OT does speak of Hell, just not the word. The use Sheol as you know already and I've shown earlier. It's meaning put in context is quite effective for getting the message across.
Gen 37:35 And all his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted ; and he said , For I will go down into the grave unto my son mourning. Thus his father wept for him.
Speaking of the grave. Obviously.
Psalms 86:13 For you will extend your great loyal love to me,and will deliver my life from the depths of Sheol.
Where did you pick up the idea that it is historical?
"My point, once again, is not that those ancient people told literal stories and we are now smart enough to take them symbolically, but that they told them symbolically, and we are now dumb enough to take them literally."
--- John Dominic Crossan
I'm fairly competent in Hebrew so I'll pipe in here. I do believe in the doctrine of hell and I think you can certainly find seeds of it in the OT. It is most clearly revealed in the NT along with the resurrection. But the OT concept of Sheol mostly refers to the grave or possibly to a sort of underworld that all people - wicked and righteous - go to, possibly awaiting judgement. Sheol never clearly refers to a place of torment reserved for the wicked alone.
Thank you.
Isn't it just used like a metaphor for hell? Again, forgive my ignorance. I should really study more on Hebrew language.
Did they have a word for a place of torment?
The concept of Sheol is the seed from which hell grew.
No. The Hebrews did not really have much of a hope for eternal life until the exhilic era. The resurrection of Jesus, though secretly prepared for in the OT, came as a big surprise to the apostles and the Jewish world.
They did, however, have a robust concept of God's judgement. They believed that God would judge the wicked, root them out of the earth, and destroy them forever and that God's people would inherit the earth.
A person's character—who he is—is affected by the sin in the world. Adam's sin has affected what all humans are like. The effect of living in a sinful world and being fallen ourselves has affected who we are forever. This includes all experiences everyone has had (including experiences of God, who is "far" from us right now because of our sin). God only gave mankind 1 command, but due to sin, God kept adding commands so we would know what causes death (the wages of sin), so we would see there is nothing we can do to undo our sinful past sinful actions, and so we would seek God for forgiveness. We are eternally affected by what happened in our lives, including that the Law was given at all, along with how we responded to God's will.and I'm sure you can back up that claim ?
Hi
Anyone else think that finite punishment should be fitting for finite sin. Its not like the Bible mentions infinite punishment, only that time in hell is everlasting. Can the 2 be separated?
Or can you get out of hell like some of those people who have near death experiences and go to hell first?
My question is what purpose torturing miscreants for all eternity serves. God roasts the damned forever... because He can? Or to show that He's infinitely merciless? That His malice endures forever? Or to serve as an example to the saved so they don't get out of line? Sounds sort of, well, diabolical, doesn't it?There is no such thing as finite sins. The effects of every sin will last for eternity. Also, it matters that sin is against One who is eternal.
Although "cruel and unusual punishment" inflicted by a human, for any crime, is considered unjust. A little special pleading and redefinition of terms to keep God from sounding like a sadistic monster, reckon?The doctrine of hell shows us the justice of God.
How about the one our Lord gave us: "fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Yeah, I know, "destroy" doesn't really mean "destroy" because that would fly in the face of doctrine. But that's what our Lord said, believe it or not. Sounds like a much better plan to me. Erases the sinner from the books altogether. "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." If our Lord didn't know them, they've been removed from existence, past, present, future. Destroyed. Can't be too worried about a dude who never existed, can we?I wonder what alternative you are proposing.
Blaming Him for what? Not being bound by doctrines created by people reading into the Word what they want it to say? Not me.Why are you blaming God?
You have different definitions of "justice" when using it in reference to humans and in reference to God, and that's a crock. That's simply saying that what we'd consider both unjust and barbarous in a human we must consider just and merciful in God. Baloney. And the idea of eternal torment in unscriptural anyway, a Doctrine of Men, if you like.If you don't want justice to be done
Blaming Him for what? Not being bound by doctrines created by people reading into the Word what they want it to say? Not me.
You have different definitions of "justice" when using it in reference to humans and in reference to God, and that's a crock. That's simply saying that what we'd consider both unjust and barbarous in a human we must consider just and merciful in God. Baloney. And the idea of eternal torment in unscriptural anyway, a Doctrine of Men, if you like.
Where did you pick up the idea that it is historical?
"My point, once again, is not that those ancient people told literal stories and we are now smart enough to take them symbolically, but that they told them symbolically, and we are now dumb enough to take them literally."
--- John Dominic Crossan
Who are you talking about? And why?
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