It seems to me that you're saying the point of desire is to make babies (within marriage). Is there a point to desire other than that? For example, a desire for pleasure?
I think you're misunderstanding me. By
desire, I simply mean the attraction of the husband for the wife. When a man and woman marry, they aren't simply mindless entities occupying the same house - they feel an identity for one another. This isn't necessarily limited to sexual feelings, either. They will have the desire to spend time with, the desire to be with for prolonged periods, and generally to be one in union - part of which involves sex (whose purpose, yes, is for the growth of a family). If my mother and father did not desire one another to this day as husband and wife, they would not still be married.
Do you think couples should only have sex to make babies or is it okay to have sex for the sake of pleasure?
Think for a moment what the entire phrase for sex is:
sexual reproduction. Why do we have sexual organs? Why do they function the way they do? It is because they are designed to have children or to aid our people in reproduction. We use our ears to hear, our mouths to eat and speak, and our eyes to see. Likewise, our sexual organs are used for sexual reproduction.
Of course there is nothing wrong with a couple
enjoying their act of union. I'm not suggesting the wife just sit back and think of England.
The apostle Paul writes: "The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does" (1 Cor 7:4). In the union of marriage, the man and woman act as one unit, and everything they do is meant to be one unit - even their sexual relations. Yet the wife is not solely an object of sexual pleasure for the man, and the husband is not solely an object of sexual pleasure for the woman. They are husband and wife. They are one flesh within marriage. Just as my right lung doesn't fight with my left lung for air within my one body, so too should the man or woman have an unequal burden in regards to pleasing their partner within marriage.
In your Christian viewpoint, sex is aimed towards the production of children and so desire escapes the selfish nature of lust. Maybe so, but it also seems to me to denigrate what sex is also, almost primarily about in modern day society.
Society has never changed. Society - nay, man in his fallen nature - always finds the selfish pleasure within sex, and seeks to justify it. When you read about how the society was during the time of the apostles, you realize that it has never changed at all - in fact, if anything, it was worse. Man's nature is to distort the good that is given to him. Just as eating is meant to refresh our bodies and give us strength - not for our indulging - so too is sex meant to continue on our species and for the union between man and woman - not for perverse pleasures of the flesh. And man, left on his own, will continue to degenerate, just as Paul wrote: "Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them" (Rom 1:24).
The only thing that might have changed throughout history is the suppression of such sentiments or practices within society as a whole. Whereas in the past society may have simply swept it under the rug and ignored it was there, now they have allowed it to run rampant. However, that doesn't change what the word of God says and how God has defined sex and marriage by His word and in His word. That people will fight against it is, of course, nothing new. Paul spoke of it when he wrote: "and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them" (Rom 1:32).
I get the impression that you think everything that is selfish is wrong. Can you defend that from a Christian perspective?
Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; [Phi 2:3]
Everything done for our own pleasure or benefit - when it comes at the expense of another human being - is selfish to some degree. If my brother is in need of money that I can give him, but I do nothing - not because I think he would use it badly, or because it is beyond my power, but because I simply don't want to depart from that money - then I am being selfish. If I have a plethora of food and my neighbor has none, and I refuse to give him any - not because he is able to provide food for his own but rather because I simply do not want to depart with my surplus - then I am being selfish. Likewise, when I look at a woman and treat her as nothing but an object for my pleasure, I am not treating her as one made in the image of God, but as one who is simply there for me to feel personal sexual joy about.
But it is not the mere selfishness that turns lust into a sin. It is because, in the eyes of God, it is as bad as the act of adultery itself. What point is there in respecting a woman with my manners if I'm ravishing her with my heart? It is from such seeds that come the very actions of adultery, hence why even the mere temptation is dangerous.
Also, how are you distinguishing between lust and desire? What are their definitions?
Hopefully I've explained this in this post at various parts, and I believe I touched on it briefly in my last post.
In Greek, there really isn't a distinguishing between lust and desire. The verb used does express strong desire, but there's no negative or positive associations per se with that. Which is why you'll find various translations of the passage. The distinction between lust and desire seem to be concepts foreign to Greek. I'm sure you can see the problem if we translate it as 'do not desire another woman other than your wife'.
The original Greek phrase is: πᾶς ὁ βλέπων γυναῖκα πρὸς τὸ ἐπιθυμῆσαι ("all those looking at a woman with lust"). The root word used for
lust is ἐπιθυμέω, which means
to lust or
crave after, and literally translates (being a compound word with ἐπί and θυμός
as "focus on with great desire." It is translated in other areas of the New Testament as "covet" (Acts 20:33, Rom 7:7 and Rom 13:9 being some examples) and is used in the same context which we are all familiar with the Ten Commandments using it. It is sinful coveting, and rightly placed, for lust does nothing but turn the other person into an object.
Christ's point is that this isn't merely looking at a girl and thinking, "Oh, she's attractive." This is looking at a girl and thinking of her in ways that are only permitted within marriage. A man may never commit adultery, but if he is unrepentantly entertaining adulterous thoughts in his mind, yet claims he has never committed a sexual sin (as the Pharisee did in Luke 18:11), then God who knows the hearts of all men (cf. Luke 16:15) will see through his facade.
Do you think that no one can lust for or desire a woman (or a man) for selfish and non-selfish purposes? Admittedly there are people who want sex only for their own personal enjoyment, but there are many more people who want to give their partner pleasure as well.
There is no such thing as unselfish lust. Lust with a pretext is still lust, just as murder with pretext is still murder. There are some who want to give their partner pleasure, yes, but generally many of them either get some of their own pleasure from it, or they are in essence submitting themselves to the pleasures of the other individual at the expense of their person, which (as shown in the previous quotation from Paul in 1 Corinthians) is contrary to the Biblical teaching of sex.
Hopefully that's answered your questions.