Feeling Hurt

[AmericanHoney]

What book is that? I don't believe that's factual.

For facts about our brains and how porn affects our brain chemistry....you may want to check out this site: Home - Fight the New Drug

It's called Every Man's Battle. Actually I don't think the book explained it but it interviewed some wives that have had healing in their marriage with the help of this book and one of them said that. But we're only on chapter one so far. So far the arthors haven't actually said that.

 

[mkgal1]

It's called Every Man's Battle. Actually I don't think the book explained it but it interviewed some wives that have had healing in their marriage with the help of this book and one of them said that. But we're only on chapter one so far. So far the arthors haven't actually said that.

Anything that begins with the idea that men are "wired" to be sexually tempted--IMO--is a large part of the reason WHY we have such a huge issue with this within the church. It allows men a sort of excuse to be "continually battling" as part of his nature. Even if the authors haven't actually said that--if it's written in the book, most likely your husband is going to grab onto that belief and claim it as true. Even in the title there's that subtle message.

 

[tall73]

It's called Every Man's Battle. Actually I don't think the book explained it but it interviewed some wives that have had healing in their marriage with the help of this book and one of them said that. But we're only on chapter one so far. So far the arthors haven't actually said that.

That book notes the reality that men respond to visual stimuli. But he goes on to suggest techniques to avoid going from seeing an attractive woman to lusting after the attractive woman.

One of the techniques he will recommend is looking away from attractive women imidiately, or "bouncing the eyes". This may be helpful initially, and he might try it for a while to learn not to indulge his initial reaction to an attractive woman. But long term it may teach him to see women as a temptation, not as a person. Eventually, once he has learned to control his thoughts, he can learn to interact with an attractive woman as a person, not as an enticing thing.

But this book is for low-key stuff. People who see attractive women and linger at the sight. Your husband is also looking at porn. That is not something that happens when you see a woman in the street, that is a choice. He is also interacting with people, which is a whole other step beyond.

That book may be more helpful to you than to him. You may read it to understand, but he will need to go beyond what is in that book alone.

 

[tall73]

What your husband needs more than anything is a complete willingness to stop. And this includes a complete willingness to for a time remove avenues of temptation (computer use, phone use, etc.) At the same time he must commit to allowing you to question him on this regularly without being defensive, and to open up all passwords, all access to all devices used to participate in this behavior.

If he regularly flirts with particular individuals he should, in your presence, contact them and tell them he cannot have any more contact with them at all.

Friendship doesn't work with folks you are flirting with.

 

[mkgal1]

But long term it may teach him to see women as a temptation, not as a person.

That's an important point. Anything that encourages this (whether it be this book or counseling) to me would be going in the wrong direction and be giving your husband even more to unlearn.

 

[mkgal1]

To my mind......since porn dehumanizes others....a good start to undoing that is to learn to humanize others....learn about healthy relationships (as a start).

This series....based on the author's book Scary Close may be a much better choice than the book you're reading. The series is broken into about 12 videos:

This is the counseling workshops that Miller is referring to that he attended:
Onsite Workshops | Discover a Better Future

 

[mkgal1]

I hope I'm not overloading you, AmericanHoney, but this is another great article about the importance of "connection":
'The Opposite Of Addiction Is Not Sobriety. The Opposite Of Addiction Is Connection.'

 

[mkgal1]

I definitely agree about the individual counseling. That's why I've come here because I just need to let it out and get feedback. But I know a counselor would be even better.

I don't think it has to be one or the other (I hope you didn't take my post to mean you shouldn't be posting here). A good support system for yourself is important (and that means more than just a counselor).

 

[tall73]

MkGal makes an important point. With addiction it is not just what you take away, but what you put in it's place. While he needs a commitment to cease these harmful activities he also needs to commit time to your relationship, and to learning about healthy relationships.

Be prepared for him to have some time where he struggles with this and mourns its loss, but he needs to invest that emotional energy into you and re-connecting so that he can properly build up your marriage.

 

[AmericanHoney]

Men are more visual. They are turned on by attractive women, which can vary across a whole spectrum of body types, appearance, etc. And yes, it is not a commentary on your attractiveness that he likes looking at images of women. However, the fact that he is excusing it as second nature is ridiculous. Men are visually attracted to women. That doesn't cause you to navigate to porn and look at it. That is a choice. When he makes the choice to look at the porn, of course he will be attracted.

It is a problem, but not a disease. The problem is he consistently chooses to look or flirt.

Also flirting is a choice. You cross the line when you decide to cross the line. And that is not even about visual cues. So there is no excuse there. He wants infatuation and the emotional high that comes from these discussions. He hasn't learned to say no and to build up the relationship with you that he needs to.

If he didn't stop when he told you, and he didn't stop when your child was born, he is not stopping until he gets help or has his life crash down on him.

You need to let him know this can't stay secret. His child will eventually find out about it. His church will. His friends and extended family will. It is time to stop making excuses.

He can change this, by removing the porn and flirting. Your relationship can be rebuilt by spending time with you. But those are all choices he must make.




If he is ashamed now that will only increase when folks find out about it and he has destroyed his spiritual and marital life.

Yes I agree with you about it being a choice. I've been thinking about it and I don't see how he can't just stop himself from doing it. He's said some pretty bad things while messaging strangers and he had to choose to say those things. I don't see how it can be so natural to start a convo and then it turn into something like that. I do feel like he's just making excuses and I've let it slide too many times. He does need some serious help.

P.S. I appreciate all the recent replies and I will get to them as time is willing.

 

[AmericanHoney]

Gaming is not a problem in moderation, but it can be a symptom of the overall problem if he is gaming all the time on a day when he is off work (which you said is a lot of hours) and could be spending time with you.

He should really agree to give up his phone entirely for a time. If he needs it for work then you could make an agreement that you have the right to examine the phone at any time. He needs to be accountable for a time while trust is rebuilt.







If it is starting to more that may be a sign he is withdrawing more. That combined with his new reluctance to go to church is not a good thing.

Also some folks will progress flirting to full-on emotional affairs which can lead to actual affairs.

With the gaming I'm not really sure if it's related to me or his problem at all or just the fact his job is really taking a toll on him lately. He has a really demanding job, mentally and physically so all he wants to do on the weekend is relax. His relaxation is defined as gaming. So that's a hard thing for me to put a finger on. But I won't rule it out either.

Again, with his job its nearly impossible to give up his phone entirely. and when he is home is rarely on it unless it's a phone game, Facebook or work. And I'm usually right next to him if he's on it. We've actually looked at text only phones before and recently he ruined his iPhone and had to have it replaced and he had a crappy smart phone while waiting for a new one that he couldn't do all his work stuff on and it pretty much proved that he needs the smart phone. Which really stinks.

 

[AmericanHoney]

Anything that begins with the idea that men are "wired" to be sexually tempted--IMO--is a large part of the reason WHY we have such a huge issue with this within the church. It allows men a sort of excuse to be "continually battling" as part of his nature. Even if the authors haven't actually said that--if it's written in the book, most likely your husband is going to grab onto that belief and claim it as true. Even in the title there's that subtle message.

You make a good point there

 

[AmericanHoney]

That book notes the reality that men respond to visual stimuli. But he goes on to suggest techniques to avoid going from seeing an attractive woman to lusting after the attractive woman.

One of the techniques he will recommend is looking away from attractive women imidiately, or "bouncing the eyes". This may be helpful initially, and he might try it for a while to learn not to indulge his initial reaction to an attractive woman. But long term it may teach him to see women as a temptation, not as a person. Eventually, once he has learned to control his thoughts, he can learn to interact with an attractive woman as a person, not as an enticing thing.

But this book is for low-key stuff. People who see attractive women and linger at the sight. Your husband is also looking at porn. That is not something that happens when you see a woman in the street, that is a choice. He is also interacting with people, which is a whole other step beyond.

That book may be more helpful to you than to him. You may read it to understand, but he will need to go beyond what is in that book alone.

I definitely plan on reading it. I skimmed it before I bought it and even in the first chapter it mentions addictions so it seemed like what I was looking for. I'll try and go to Barnes and Noble tomorrow and see if I can find something better and more suiting.

 

[AmericanHoney]

What your husband needs more than anything is a complete willingness to stop. And this includes a complete willingness to for a time remove avenues of temptation (computer use, phone use, etc.) At the same time he must commit to allowing you to question him on this regularly without being defensive, and to open up all passwords, all access to all devices used to participate in this behavior.

If he regularly flirts with particular individuals he should, in your presence, contact them and tell them he cannot have any more contact with them at all.

Friendship doesn't work with folks you are flirting with.

I agree he needs to be willing to stop this and when we talk he seems willing but I don't see it in his actions. I'm going to work on asking for his phone more often. I did have all his passwords but after time and him forgetting some of them (email, iTunes) he changed them and I don't know the new passwords. Going to ask for them next time I talk with him. He doesn't use the computer so nothing to worry about there.

He doesn't flirt with any particular person or with anyone he knows. There were a couple old friends it happened with when we were first married and a couple years ago we finally cut out another girl (she had an old crush and just wouldn't leave him alone) but now I don't think there's anyone. I do notice him message girls from high school to catch up and sometimes he says things like "you haven't changed" "you look good", so wonder what the true motive is there but that's far as that goes. The flirting he does is with random strangers online and they change all the time I'm assuming. They have in the past.

 

[AmericanHoney]

I hope I'm not overloading you, AmericanHoney, but this is another great article about the importance of "connection":
'The Opposite Of Addiction Is Not Sobriety. The Opposite Of Addiction Is Connection.'

No you're fine, I appreciate them. I will check those out.

 

[AmericanHoney]

MkGal makes an important point. With addiction it is not just what you take away, but what you put in it's place. While he needs a commitment to cease these harmful activities he also needs to commit time to your relationship, and to learning about healthy relationships.

Be prepared for him to have some time where he struggles with this and mourns its loss, but he needs to invest that emotional energy into you and re-connecting so that he can properly build up your marriage.

Yes that was another thing I was going to mention. He needs to find something to replace this problem with. Not just keep busy by playing games or cleaning. He needs to mentally fight it and not avoid it with other things. Because then those things will get boring and he'll return to the issue.

 

[Edo2]

Yes that was another thing I was going to mention. He needs to find something to replace this problem with. Not just keep busy by playing games or cleaning. He needs to mentally fight it and not avoid it with other things. Because then those things will get boring and he'll return to the issue.

Matthew 12 starting at verse 43 talks about that. If you get rid of an impure spirit and it comes back to find the house unoccupied it will bring 7 more that are more wicked.

Speaking from experience their is truth in that. What each person puts back in the unoccupied space might be a little different than the next.

 

[AmericanHoney]

Matthew 12 starting at verse 43 talks about that. If you get rid of an impure spirit and it comes back to find the house unoccupied it will bring 7 more that are more wicked.

Speaking from experience their is truth in that. What each person puts back in the unoccupied space might be a little different than the next.

Yeah I was thinking there was a scripture about it. I remember growing up and hearing that you should take all the things off the throne of your heart and replace it with God taking the throne. Or something along those lines.

 

[AmericanHoney]

The thing on my mind right now is it's been 5 years that we've been going through this cycle and obviously it hasn't changed. I would say maybe it's gotten better but I actually think we've traded some evils for worse ones. Just like how you said that when the evil finds you unoccupied it comes back worse. I was watching a Joyce Meyer seminar on marriage and she said in her opinion you should only leave if God tells you too. But it was speaking for all kinds of relationships. I've got to pray about it all but I just spent time today journaling to God and talking to Him and letting some thoughts I've been having out to Him and at least what comes to my mind is I give him a year to truly get help, whether it be multiple books or actually talking to someone (which I'm going to tell him he needs to, even if it's over Skype) and talking to me about this and being more open and if I see he's making progress and things get better I'll stick it out with him and work on things. Which I really want to do. I'm very hurt right now but I do love him and I do believe that there's healing and restoration for us but if in a year there's no change then I'll have to make the hard decision and move back home. It's seriously been 5 years I've know about his problem and it's taken over our marriage and I'm not tolerating it anymore and I'm not going to get lazy and let it keep happening any longer. Do you think a year is enough time? I mean I know it's a deeply rooted problem so it may take time but what do y'all think?

 

[jameseb]

I think a year is -more- than generous. Obviously you've confronted him about this over the years so it's not like he hasn't had time to work on this.

You deserve quite a bit of recognition and praise for your patience, but also for your faith and steadfastness in trying to resolve this issue for your marriage's sake. Your devotion to God and your husband is a testament to your good heart and faith. I truly hope your husband realizes how much you've endured with grace and love for him. I'll pray for you both.