Feeling Hurt

[AmericanHoney]

I think a year is -more- than generous. Obviously you've confronted him about this over the years so it's not like he hasn't had time to work on this.

You deserve quite a bit of recognition and praise for your patience, but also for your faith and steadfastness in trying to resolve this issue for your marriage's sake. Your devotion to God and your husband is a testament to your good heart and faith. I truly hope your husband realizes how much you've endured with grace and love for him. I'll pray for you both.

Thank you. For the comment and the prayers. I'm hoping and praying he truly realizes what's at stake this time.

 

[AmericanHoney]

So I really want to talk to him tonight but I'm nervous and not sure how to start because he's playing his new game (birthday present). His birthday is tomorrow as well... I feel bad for doing it the night before but I don't want to wait another week. I'm definitely not doing it tomorrow. Ugh...

 

[tall73]

I am not sure if you talked to him yet, but I would wait until after his birthday.

I would not state anything about a year to him. You need to let him know you are serious about being willing to leave if he won't fix this problem, but don't give him a timetable or it removes the impetus to handle it immediately.

Also, has he ever been violent? If so you may need a different strategy.

 

[AmericanHoney]

I am not sure if you talked to him yet, but I would wait until after his birthday.

I would not state anything about a year to him. You need to let him know you are serious about being willing to leave if he won't fix this problem, but don't give him a timetable or it removes the impetus to handle it immediately.

Also, has he ever been violent? If so you may need a different strategy.

I didn't talk to him last night. It just didn't feel quite right. Plus we were both tired.

Yeah that's a good point. No he's never been violent. He's always understanding because he knows this is a serious issue. He has made excuses at times like "the guys got a hold of my phone" or "I overheard the guys talking about tinder and downloaded it to see what it was". Both totally bogus excuses. *eye roll* BTW, "the guys" are his coworkers. His work environment isn't very helpful to this issue. Bunch of married men who follow their favorite porn star on Instagram.

 

[AmericanHoney]

I feel like I should add that a few nights ago I checked his phone while he was napping and I found some messages between him and another woman. They're from October of last year. He was out of town for work at the time. I don't remember exactly but the messages went on for a few days. They all seemed pretty innocent except for the fact I, personally, could tell he was subtlety flirting. And he was using an email that I don't have the password for. The woman was also married. Only difference with her was when he asked if they could just text because it'd be easier she said no because she's married and doesn't want to hurt her husband. They talked about their hobbies mostly and how their day went. Honestly reminded me of some of our first conversations (we met online through mutual friends). I'm starting to get the idea that he gets that rush and excitement of talking to women online even though it may not be obvious flirting but it is there. They both agreed on the statement that it's so annoying how adults of the opposite sex can't have a conversation without people thinking it's more than that. Which is just stupid because the way he's doing it makes it wrong and contradicts that statement. I dont think I'm going to tell him I checked his phone (first time in over a year) but I'm going to put in my two cents about this topic.

 

[DZoolander]

Well, there's two things going on IMHO.

To be honest (and coming from a male point of view) I'd be focusing far more on the "actual contact" with people than on the porn. People here hate it when I say this - but a lot of men can disassociate themselves from porn. Porn basically is the lazy man's way of visually assisting masturbation - which he's been doing most likely since he was 10 years old. It really is out of sight - out of mind. Most guys probably couldn't tell you what they saw in a porn 5 minutes after finishing watching it, what color hair she had, etc. It means that little and carries such little significance.

That's not to say you shouldn't be able to tell him that it bothers you and have him adapt his behavior. But really, it is because it bothers you and he ought not do things that hurt you. Not because he's harboring these secret desires/etc that you might be imagining are going on. Because if that's the part that bothers you (wondering what's actually going on in his head) - you can most likely put that to rest. There's a VERY GOOD chance that nothing is going on in his head about it. lol

But the talking to other people and subtly flirting - that's another animal altogether. I think you're most likely on target about what he gleams from it. Even though he might not be ACTIVELY pursuing, the fact he knows he can elicit emotional responses from the women might be exactly what he's going for...and that's going onto shaky ground. What if she takes more from it than he intends? What if you guys hit a rough spot and he has a couple of possibly interested women? There are too many unknowns and possible screwups being brought into the picture with that kind of behavior.

And that he ought knock off.

 

[AmericanHoney]

Well, there's two things going on IMHO.

To be honest (and coming from a male point of view) I'd be focusing far more on the "actual contact" with people than on the porn. People here hate it when I say this - but a lot of men can disassociate themselves from porn. Porn basically is the lazy man's way of visually assisting masturbation - which he's been doing most likely since he was 10 years old. It really is out of sight - out of mind. Most guys probably couldn't tell you what they saw in a porn 5 minutes after finishing watching it, what color hair she had, etc. It means that little and carries such little significance.

That's not to say you shouldn't be able to tell him that it bothers you and have him adapt his behavior. But really, it is because it bothers you and he ought not do things that hurt you. Not because he's harboring these secret desires/etc that you might be imagining are going on. Because if that's the part that bothers you (wondering what's actually going on in his head) - you can most likely put that to rest. There's a VERY GOOD chance that nothing is going on in his head about it. lol

But the talking to other people and subtly flirting - that's another animal altogether. I think you're most likely on target about what he gleams from it. Even though he might not be ACTIVELY pursuing, the fact he knows he can elicit emotional responses from the women might be exactly what he's going for...and that's going onto shaky ground. What if she takes more from it than he intends? What if you guys hit a rough spot and he has a couple of possibly interested women? There are too many unknowns and possible screwups being brought into the picture with that kind of behavior.

And that he ought knock off.

I see your point and I can understand that. He has a rough relationship with his father and he wasn't the greatest role model when it came to women so I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case with the porn. Some of the titles of them that I see in his history are pretty out there though. Should I be worried about the types of porn he looks up? Not so much the gender as in the gender ROLES?

Yeah that's exactly what I'm worried about. In the past when the problem was really bad he would be talking to a girl and then the idea of meeting somewhere would come up (either one of them asking) and he told me he would do that but he could never make himself go through with it. Pretty sure his reasoning would be because he knows it's wrong. I ask him every time this happens if he's done anything and he tells me he never has. And to me he seems to be telling the truth. Like the emails I just found the other night they were talking about this museum and the girl said he should go sometime and he thought it was a hint to take a tour and "meet someone awesome" (loosely quoted and he added a winking symbol). The only difference this time is I don't think he was messaging her to purposely meet up like he used to do in the past. But it's all on shaky ground like you said. It's only a matter of time if I let him keep this up. It's wearing down my trust in him to almost nothing. But I think that's what it is, he gets a rush from it. I just don't understand what the point is now because he's married. He didn't stop when we got married. He stopped for the most part when we were dating (that I know of). We've had some rough spots just like anyone else but I just don't see why he can't stop and how it's such a habit.

 

[DZoolander]

Without meaning to get into areas that will violate the terms of service here - what do you mean by "should you be concerned about the gender roles"? Is he looking up dominatrix stuff or something?

 

[DZoolander]

Well, when I was younger and dating I was a bit of a flirt. Even when I was dating someone... I guess my point of view was "I'm single until I'm married. Dating is not commitment the way marriage is". Now, that did eventually catch up with me and I learned some lessons from that (mainly - once I did get serious with someone, knock it off.) But to that degree - I can kinda understand what both of you are talking about (you and your husband). I did enjoy knowing that I was eliciting some kind of reaction - even though I had no intention of taking advantage of it.

He just needs to knock it off. How old is he?

 

[mkgal1]

But I think that's what it is, he gets a rush from it. I just don't understand what the point is now because he's married.

I think this video I posted earlier may answer that--this one and the Scary Close videos:

AmericanHoney, but this is another great article about the importance of "connection":
'The Opposite Of Addiction Is Not Sobriety. The Opposite Of Addiction Is Connection.'

I don't mean to sound demanding .... but I think you should watch this TedTalk.....the main point he's making is that we all have an innate desire to bond with others. When people haven't developed their relational skills.....they end up resisting that genuine relational bond (out of fear of exposing themselves) and go for the distortions that still give them the same brain high (like porn and flirting online--even dating...especially if they can keep parts of themselves "hidden").

Once things become all "unveiled" and there's no more ways to hide and present a facade (like living with another person.....being married)....I think (I'm not an expert) there's more fear in the marriage and a desire to gravitate towards what's familiar and given that high (back to the porn.....back to the flirting....back to the presenting a false image of self and getting flattering responses). Like the other video from Donald Miller implies, though, people that hide themselves from others never get to experience genuine love--and they keep chasing something they're preventing. This isn't a marital issue.....it really is an individual issue that's just become full-blown *because* of marriage.

Should I be worried about the types of porn he looks up? Not so much the gender as in the gender ROLES?

I wondered the same thing along the lines that Zoo asked......is he looking up violent porn?

For yourself.....since the actual change is up to him....I'd suggest learning about healthy boundaries. Dr Henry Cloud (if you use FB) has excellent insight and advice:
Dr Henry Cloud (video) .....and book The Power of the Other

 

[AmericanHoney]

I think this video I posted earlier may answer that--this one and the Scary Close videos:


I don't mean to sound demanding .... but I think you should watch this TedTalk.....the main point he's making is that we all have an innate desire to bond with others. When people haven't developed their relational skills.....they end up resisting that genuine relational bond (out of fear of exposing themselves) and go for the distortions that still give them the same brain high (like porn and flirting online--even dating). Once things become all "unveiled" and there's no more ways to hide and present a facade (like living with another person.....being married)....I think (I'm not an expert) there's more fear in the marriage and a desire to gravitate towards what's familiar and given that high (back to the porn.....back to the flirting....back to the presenting a false image of self and getting flattering responses). Like the other video from Donald Miller implies, though, people that hide themselves from others never get to experience genuine love--and they keep chasing something they're preventing. This isn't a marital issue.....it really is an individual issue that's just become full-blown *because* of marriage.

I wondered the same thing along the lines that Zoo asked......is he looking up violent porn?

For yourself.....since the actual change is up to him....I'd suggest learning about healthy boundaries. Dr Henry Cloud (if you use FB) has excellent insight and advice:
Dr Henry Cloud (video) .....and book The Power of the Other

Thanks! I'll check those out. and Dr Henry Cloud is awesome. We studied his love language book. (I believe that was by him, I know I definitely read one of his books)
You make a very good point though. I can see what you mean.

And to answer both you and Zoo, it's nothing like that but more like... ugh... I hate saying it... Daddy and step daughter type of stuff. Or maybe it was Step daughters friend. I don't remember exactly.

 

[AmericanHoney]

Well, when I was younger and dating I was a bit of a flirt. Even when I was dating someone... I guess my point of view was "I'm single until I'm married. Dating is not commitment the way marriage is". Now, that did eventually catch up with me and I learned some lessons from that (mainly - once I did get serious with someone, knock it off.) But to that degree - I can kinda understand what both of you are talking about (you and your husband). I did enjoy knowing that I was eliciting some kind of reaction - even though I had no intention of taking advantage of it.

He just needs to knock it off. How old is he?

Yes he does need to knock it off. He's 29.

 

[DZoolander]

That's kinda odd...lol My searches were more generic like "hot redhead"

Meh - dunno what to say about that.

 

[AmericanHoney]

That's kinda odd...lol My searches were more generic like "hot redhead"

Meh - dunno what to say about that.

Lol yeah.. I mean I can see the 3-some thing but the whole Daddy thing to me is just weird. He's gone through a lot of crappy things in life so maybe it has something to do with that. *shrug* To me porn is porn and its all disgusting.

 

[tall73]

a. If he "accidentally" downloaded Tinder I would start with getting screened for an STD. Honesty doesn't seem to be his forte here so far.

b. If he is searching for incest porn I would insist he go immediately to a counselor. You need to find out what age of incest he is looking at. Your child could be in danger.

You mentioned titles, is he searching for this stuff, or is he just going to sites that may serve up all kinds of things? He may not intentionally be searching out incest porn, but if he is that would definitely be a red flag to me.

 

[DZoolander]

WAIT a second. I totally missed the part about downloading Tinder. No no no no no.

Yeah, that puts a far different spin on this. Yeah, you need to go get yourself tested and have a come to Jesus talk with your hubby if he's downloading Tinder.

 

[AmericanHoney]

WAIT a second. I totally missed the part about downloading Tinder. No no no no no.

Yeah, that puts a far different spin on this. Yeah, you need to go get yourself tested and have a come to Jesus talk with your hubby if he's downloading Tinder.

He said he downloaded it but then deleted it. This was a while back and I've since been checked. Believe me, I ask him every time I find something if he's done anything.

 

[AmericanHoney]

I've also told him that our daughter could get something if he does anything sense she's breastfed. He was being honest and I think he understands he can really mess up if he catches anything.

 

[AmericanHoney]

a. If he "accidentally" downloaded Tinder I would start with getting screened for an STD. Honesty doesn't seem to be his forte here so far.

b. If he is searching for incest porn I would insist he go immediately to a counselor. You need to find out what age of incest he is looking at. Your child could be in danger.

You mentioned titles, is he searching for this stuff, or is he just going to sites that may serve up all kinds of things? He may not intentionally be searching out incest porn, but if he is that would definitely be a red flag to me.

Yes I agree. I don't think he'd ever hurt our daughter but there definitely needs to be an explaination for that. I'm not sure if he purposely searched for it but it looked that way. I'm not really sure.

 

[mkgal1]

To me porn is porn and its all disgusting.

There are lines that cross into very dark places.....like children and violence. IOW....it goes from "disgusting" to "criminal" and "dangerous"---it is best you find out what you're actually dealing with, somehow.