Feeling a bit judged...

[Macx]

Yes, you Steve, have completely failed reading the posts.

You have no evidence that Paul did not know the Parables that Jesus taught & I am baffled by your assumption that what Paul taught was incomplete. That of course is all aside from the point. What you are floundering at criticizing is the quote:

No. I Peter 2:

16Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God.
​

Freedom is God's objective for our lives. There is much talk in the New Testament and particularly the writings of Paul that talk about acting like a servant. Paul assumed though that you'd read the story of the Prodigal son from Luke 15:11 and following . . .. and you'd recognize that God wants to treat you as His very child, adopted through the blood of Christ. You remember the end of the story where the son comes and wants to beg his father to let him be a servant right? Remember the end of the story?

You are not a first century Christian are you? What century is this? How old are you? Where is your time machine?

Context being what it is and all . .. the whole quote would be kinda important. So really, it doesn't matter if you read what I wrote in context or issolated a part of the statement to try and find a flaw with it, you have failed.

...but the Bible does not say that the People Paul was talking to knew any of it (I am sure they did) nor does it say anything about them knowing the story of the prodigal son.

This just cracked me up. So you are saying, you don't think Paul & Co. taught people anything (but you are pretty sure he did) and of the things Paul may or may not have taught people, because the Bible doesn't explicitly say it. . . it didn't happen. Which theology school yeilded this . . . um . . . . line of thinking you are proposing? Besides most of Acts 13 and a little bit of Acts 14* Acts 17:22 and following, Paul didn't say anything according to your logic. How did he expect people in the churches he started, to know anything, if that* was the sum total of what Paul taught? When Paul settled down in Corinth for a year and a half, he just kept repeating those same words by your logic. We could go on . . . with your assumption that Paul taught nothing besides what was explicitly written in Acts, with quotes around it . . . but for the sake of being breif, because your premise really is silly, lets just look at Paul up to and through Corinth. Just what has quotes around it, as having been spoken by Paul . . . But when we read the two letters to the Corinthians, it seems like Paul expects that they learned a lot more in that year and a half . . . than just what is in quotes in the book of Acts. Was Paul being terribly unfair or is it reasonable to believe he taught more than just what is in quotes in the book of Acts?

 

[ephraimanesti]

PEACE!​

ephraim

 

[bluegreysky]

Macx, you're awesome.
And your little pumpkin is CUUUUUUTTE!!!
I <3 punk children hehe

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone

 

[scrofford]

This just cracked me up. So you are saying, you don't think Paul & Co. taught people anything (but you are pretty sure he did) and of the things Paul may or may not have taught people, because the Bible doesn't explicitly say it. . . it didn't happen. Which theology school yeilded this . . . um . . . . line of thinking you are proposing? Besides most of Acts 13 and a little bit of Acts 14* Acts 17:22 and following, Paul didn't say anything according to your logic. How did he expect people in the churches he started, to know anything, if that* was the sum total of what Paul taught? When Paul settled down in Corinth for a year and a half, he just kept repeating those same words by your logic. We could go on . . . with your assumption that Paul taught nothing besides what was explicitly written in Acts, with quotes around it . . . but for the sake of being breif, because your premise really is silly, lets just look at Paul up to and through Corinth. Just what has quotes around it, as having been spoken by Paul . . . But when we read the two letters to the Corinthians, it seems like Paul expects that they learned a lot more in that year and a half . . . than just what is in quotes in the book of Acts. Was Paul being terribly unfair or is it reasonable to believe he taught more than just what is in quotes in the book of Acts?

You know, you can sit there and be as high and lofty in your mind as you want to be...its no skin off of my nose. The fact is that you are showing a form of pride and arrogance in this post. All I was saying is that the story of the prodigal son had not been recorded on paper at that time, so I am sure not everyone had heard the story. Your throwing scripture at me isn't impressive. I know the Word just like you do. Paul MAY have taught the story of the prodigal son...he MAY not have. I don't think you were there either. So you have nothing to back your claim whatsoever. This is getting pretty silly and I have much better things to do then to sit and argue about something that we have no way of knowing is true or not. You shouldn't take what people say and twist them around.

 

[Macx]

Thanks Bluegreysky, she is a sweetheart . . .. that reminds me, we need to find her a pair of black Chuck Taylors in the next size up. Thank you doubly, it would have slipped my mind. The rest of this is just going to be . . . in continued support of your OP.

Jesus did not incarnate to &#8220;spout specific moral dictates.&#8221; His primary task here on planet earth was to cleanse us of our sins so that we could once again become a temple of the Holy Spirit&#8212;Who, in turn, once we have surrendered control to Him, will guide and govern our moral choices.

Righty, right. Of course, in doing so, He spent a fair bit of time clearing the hedge from around the law. It is unfortunate that some misguided Christians have planted and watered new hedges with which to obscure the actual Law.

My friend, i warned you not to confuse the two! i understand that you would feel much more &#8220;free&#8221; without the control of the Holy Spirit and Paul&#8217;s godly injunctions directing us to moral behavior, but no Christian can be a Christian and be &#8220;free&#8221; from these Spiritual bonds.

Er, no, no confusion on my end. Evidently, not so on yours. Following the dictates of Christ and the continuing Church with the guidance of the Holy Spirit IS freedom. The injunctions are against becoming a slave. For example

Originally Posted by Macx

Philippians 4: Plenty of secular music is true, some of it is lovely, some of it lyrically or creatively excellent. Same goes for Single Malt.
​

Your valient defense of secular music and drinking alcohol is duly noted. Don&#8217;t know where it fits in exactly, because they weren&#8217;t mentioned in the discussion, but whatever, perhaps something to do with your views on anarchy?

Drinking alcohol is not condemned in the Bible, however, drunkeness (being a drunkard) is repeatedly condemned throughout Old and New Testament. Not all who drink are drunkards, were it so, Jesus would be wearing the millstone for His first miracle.

Yes, sometimes it is good not to speak for others&#8212;just in case you prove not to be omnicient.

I'll accept you silence after this point as evidence of your sincerity.





oops.

But you CAN avoid acquiring new ones&#8212;like anarchy symbols, images of death, anti-government polemics, etc. Leading others to stumble is not a good missionary ploy, in spite of your personal worship of &#8220;freedom.&#8221; Promoting anarchy is especially deadly in this regard. Not only is it demonstrably UNchristian--"Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God." (Romans 13:1)--but also, inexorably, leads to spiritual anarchy, which is eternal death--"In the same way, these dreamers pollute their own bodies, reject authority and slander celestial beings." (Jude 8)

Beware of the millstone!


Originally Posted by Macx

It is like you totally missed the point of the parable Jesus told in Matt 25:14-30. It is a longer passage so I won't quote it here, but I'd invite you to give it a read.
​

So are you implying that your &#8220;talents&#8221; revolve around showing off your scars, drinking single malt, listening to secular music, and supporting the overthrow of the government and the institution of anarchy?

Wow, you could not be more wrong. Do you know anything about Anarchist ideology and Christianity or are you just spouting about what "sounds scary". Anyway, I was talking about literal scars, the kind a person gets for standing for something worth defending. I will step up for more scars everytime I am asked to defend something worth defending. If you want to condemn that, you can, burn many flags?

Leading others to stumble is not a good missionary ploy

How did I put it, oh yeah, I'll take your continued silence as evidence of your sincerity. I'll continue going where the Fundies won't go and bringing the Gospel to those they condemn in word & ignore in action. My Lord spent time with the outcasts, the sick, and the despised . . . I'll follow Him long before I follow you, Ephriam.

I love it when Christians try and break out the Romans 13:1 as a way to try and condemn me. Don't know if you noticed my country icon, but I am a U.S. citizen . . . one of the great things about U.S. law, is that it contains a set, legal way to repeal unjust and irrelevant laws. We could, strive to strike down the unjust laws, lift up the Natural Law to put ourselves in harmony with the will of God . . . you can condemn me for not worshiping Obama if you want to, but I won't bow to you idol. I will strive for change, fighting injustice and promoting justice, go ahead and condemn me, Obama has your back.

My missionary toolbox -

A man is a good retainer to the extent that he earnestly places importance in his master. This is the highest sort of retainer. If one is born into a prominent family that goes back for generations, it is sufficient to deeply consider the matter of obligation to one's ancestors, to lay down one's body and mind, and to earnestly esteem one's master. It is further good fortune if, more than this, one has wisdom and talent and can use them appropriately. But even a person who is good for nothing and exceedingly clumsy will be a reliable retainer if only he has the determination to think earnestly of his master. Having only wisdom and talent is the lowest tier of usefulness.

From the first chapter.
I will first do what I can for the Lord. I'll let you ponder what talents you think I have or have not . . . I'm sure that will be productive.

Originally Posted by Macx

I am happy to have been of service.

​

Yes, but to and for whom?

You appeared in need of clarity.

You know, you can sit there and be as high and lofty in your mind as you want to be...its no skin off of my nose. The fact is that you are showing a form of pride and arrogance in this post. All I was saying is that the story of the prodigal son had not been recorded on paper at that time, so I am sure not everyone had heard the story. Your throwing scripture at me isn't impressive. I know the Word just like you do.

Steve, I am not sure you have the parts in this play correct. You came high and mighty, showing pride and arrogance trying to correct something that wasn't wrong, for the purpose of trying to put down someone who said something that made you uncomfortable. Now, I am not sure about your formal education, but it might even be a little arrogant to presume

I know the Word just like you do.

Of course I never made such a statement, so who was arrogant in this? Finally,

You shouldn't take what people say and twist them around.

Who was it that took issue with one nuanced phrase within a statement, which is correct in its context? Oh, that'd be . . . Steve.

It is always fun. Blessings and peace all.

 

[ephraimanesti]

PEACE!​

ephraim

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Let's stick to the topic and avoid the personal jabs.

 

[Mela Monkey]

I also feel that people on this site, and other christian forums i've been to judge and fight a lot.

It has caused me to become hesitant to post things because it seems whenever someone puts up something controversial, they just get flamed by people who seem to know everything.

I don't know exactly why people like to argue and judge so much, but less of it needs to be done.

 

[ephraimanesti]

I also feel that people on this site, and other christian forums i've been to judge and fight a lot.

It has caused me to become hesitant to post things because it seems whenever someone puts up something controversial, they just get flamed by people who seem to know everything.

I don't know exactly why people like to argue and judge so much, but less of it needs to be done.

You are indeed correct! Sometimes things get away from me before i realize the wrong of it all. Thank you for the reminder.

MY APOLOGIES TO ONE AND ALL!

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[Macx]

The confused diatribe by Ephriam is, case in point, on topic for how some Christians judge and wrongly accuse what they know nothing about. Strange though that he came into a thread wherein a person feeling judged (unfairly) needed some encouragement and chose to spread judgement instead.

Standing up to bullies is something I feel compelled to do, especially in a thread with such a sensitive topic. Windmils, windbags, it is so hard to distinguish in this context.

i have seen anarchists in action--both in Seattle and in Iraq and Afganistan, and i must say that i am not impressed with your tactics.

Were your boots in the sand in Iraq & Afganistan? Have you ever served in the military? Do you really feel that the American men and women serving over there have unimpressive tactics?

Originally Posted by Macx

It is always fun.
​

At least while the bong is full, huh.

You choice is yours, you can do that stuff if you want . . . it isn't my choice to use that stuff & it isn't my place to judge you for whatever you put in your bong.

Originally Posted by Macx

How did I put it, oh yeah, I'll take your continued silence as evidence of your sincerity. I'll continue going where the Fundies won't go and bringing the Gospel to those they condemn in word & ignore in action. My Lord spent time with the outcasts, the sick, and the despised . . . I'll follow Him long before I follow you, Ephriam.
​

Given the disparaging way you refer to your brothers and sisters in Christ--"Fundies???"--i think you might do well to spend some quality time with your Lord before prancing off to save the lost. "Physician, heal yourself." (Luke 4:23)

You have no idea of my training, experience, formal education, family background, etc. It is arrogant to make such a statement & contextually Jesus exegeting a bit of prophesy from Isaiah regarding himself. . . . what a bizare choice to hurl like as though it were an insult. Of course I will like to be like my Lord, cross and all. On the other hand, I don't see why Fundies should find the term disparaging . . . Pharisees didn't find the (century appropriate) term for fundies disparaging during their time on deck. Usually, Pharisees took pride in being . . . fundies. If the label applies, wear it with pride.

Originally Posted by Macx

Wow, you could not be more wrong. Do you know anything about Anarchist ideology and Christianity or are you just spouting about what "sounds scary". Anyway, I was talking about literal scars, the kind a person gets for standing for something worth defending. I will step up for more scars everytime I am asked to defend something worth defending. If you want to condemn that, you can, burn many flags?
​

Funny you should mention it, but yes, we in Seattle have had quite a bit of experience with anarchists. In fact, we just had a day of remembrance for the anarchist riots of ten years ago when your precious CIRCLE A (and i thought the Cross was THE Christian symbol; i must be getting old) was sprayed all over town, especially on the windows of the looted stores downtown. Many many flags were burned and we all got a first-hand taste of what anarchistic ideals can do to inflame a band of hooligans bent on looting and destruction--all in the name, of course, of anti-government protests and the betterment of mankind, etc.

Subverting a symbol does not make a person a member of the movement the symbol relates to. . . were it so, the gangbangers with their elaborate cross and crucifix tattoos and gold . . . would surely be the best example of Christians.

Looky, this devout Christian has two crosses! MS-13

MS-13 criminal activities include drug smuggling and sales, arms trafficking, auto theft, carjacking, home invasion, assault, aggravated assault, assault on law enforcement officials, drive-by shootings, contract killing and murder.

All very Christian activities & surely just because they use the symbol of the cross, that is what Christians are about. It stands to reason that if MS13 is a perfect example of Christians then surely a

a band of hooligans bent on looting and destruction

in Seattle must be a good example of anarchists.


Well, there it is . . . maybe the moral of this story is: When you are feeling down because fundies are judging you, you can ignore them or have fun with them, but the important thing is . . .. you aren't alone.

 

[Macx]

Oh that's what I get for typing between commercials.

Hugs for everybody.

 

[SqueekSSqueekS]

Religion is retrospective. Like beauty it is in the eye of the beholder. There are certain "rules" to live by if you are a Christian, but everyone had their own levels of what is right and what is wrong. God will most certainly convict your heart if you are doing something too crazy. People- and by people I mean thise conservatists- tend to forget the love all people part. We are not here to judge. We are here to be a light to the people. I know a girl who has hair dyed three colors, a nose ring, a few tattoos, and wears the chains and skulls that you say you love. You know what she does? She is a youth counselor for her church. Outside appearance is nothing to what is inside. Her being as unique as she is allows her to reach out to people that someone like me- a "normal" person- couldn't.

Everyone has questions about their faith. If there were no questions there would be no growing in the lord. Christians are not perfect people and we are not immune to the trials and tribulations that come with being here on earth.

Keep your head high in situations where you feel judged. Find passages in the bible that you could throw back at those people with the stricter views.

I struggle with this too.

 

[ephraimanesti]

PEACE!​

ephraim

 

[dusky_tresses]

As someone who has had this problem before, I felt convicted to post here. I am also someone who has once really struggled in faith...to the point where I questioned leaving. I came onto CF for advice as well, and instead received some harsh judgment. Thankfully, I got off for a while and did what I should have done the first time: read the Bible.

The Bible calls us to look at our actions and thoughts, and not just our words. As a Christian, we should be judging from a standpoint of edification, not indoctrination. Too far are we legalistic in our beliefs and expect everyone to jump onto the fundamentalist bandwagon. So what if someone has a tattoo or a piercing, or wears skulls and listens to heavy rock music? Last time I checked, the Bible admonished those who were busybodies about what others did instead of looking at their own actions and striving to make the mark.

I have met a very conservative pastor who had tattoos all over one of his arms, and that didn't stop him from counseling and preaching. At my church, there is a deacon who used to own a motorcycle (gasps), and somehow does that mean he was part of Hell's Angels unleashing sin into the world? No! I have several piercings, but in no way does that make me a pagan or a Satanist and it sure does not prevent me from reading the Bible, going to church, and seeking out Christian fellowship.

I saw an argument about whether or not something one wore hindered an agnostic's potential with Christian fellowship. IMO, if someone who is agnostic is so worried about a t-shirt instead of being open to witnessing, then their head was in the wrong mindset in the first place. I would rather see a Christian wearing a t-shirt with a skull on it carrying out what they preach in their actions humbly and faith-driven compared to a Christian who pokes fun of others because they can't afford to shop at A&F, or because they have a disabled sibling, or because of something else they have no control over.

Before I was Christian, as a teenager it drove me crazy to see how so-called "Christians" would terrorize others with awful words and deeds and still thought they could prance around as if they were high and mightier than anyone else. Yes, that definitely made me think that Christians were hypocrites and were judgmental. Unfortunately, not everyone has moved past this high school stage.

The Bible is very clear about moral issues such as homosexuality, premarital sex, stealing, etc. There aren't any rules about what kinds of t-shirts you can wear, whether or not you can listen to secular music, or whether or not you can wear hair jewelry and if it's sinful. The Bible gives us guidelines, but God didn't give us rules for every single thing possible. He gave us specific guidelines which can be generalize to a variety of issues. Hence, these "gray areas". What I don't understand that as we as Christians can't have a decent discussion on how to approach these gray areas and instead insist that we each have the correct interpretation instead of applying the principles God gave us in the Bible.

For instance, about the skulls t-shirt. In itself, the t-shirt is harmless and benign. Wearing it should be just as harmless and benign. However, if you are wearing the t-shirt in an attempt to be immodest or knowingly harm another's faith is where wearing it would be wrong, or wearing any such t-shirt which you know of those consequences would be wrong. If you have a friend who is greatly affected by those kinds of t-shirts, why would you want to wear it around them? It's situations like that where we need to stop and think.

Too often are we so focused on petty outside differences or these gray areas and we lose sight of the more pertinent things plaguing the church. Has anyone not noticed that many churches as of this summer have eradicated the belief of fornication? Or that many churches turn a blind eye from people who are openly living a lifestyle that is not befitting for Christians? Or worse yet, that many Christian parents are not teaching their children Christian values, beliefs, and principles, thereby contributing to the decline of morality? I would much rather focus on these issues over whether or not someone should wear a t-shirt or have their nose pierced or listen to rock music.

 

[Krystabelle]

I guess what most people forget as Christians is as they give advice, they need to be compassionate. The only real reason they are telling you what God asked not to do is for your own good. The truth is love means discipline. Sometimes we just forget that when we are teaching 4 year olds (just an analogy), we don't tell them facts to their faces, but we stoop down to their level to guide them step by step.

What you really need to know is salvation isn't believing in Jesus Christ but trusting your life in Him that you GIVE your life to Him. It's a natural thing to do when you are drowning and a person saved your life that you'd obey him.

There are certain things in the bible we don;t understand but as we age God reveals them to us slowly. The bible isn't a big book of rules, but written personally for everyone, in fact the rules are to prevent us from making big mistakes. The other day Numbers made more sense to me when I knew how bad pork was to the body once cooked unproperly, reminds us that we need to say grace ad sanctify the food before eating.

Don't think you're a bad person, you are. Actually we ALL are. It's natural for us to look for someone that will say "it's not your fault." but you turn the bible, actually its your fault, He has warn you of all these. But because of God's standards, none of us have the rights to point the finger at another person without looking at ourselves.

And the disappointing thing is us Christians. No matter what our gifts are (evangelism, mercy, pastoring ), satan has a way to develop pride in our midst. It's frustrating to me as a young Christian, they expect you to be just like them.

No!

The way I dress. The way I speak. As long as its decent, my God has already accepted me the way I am, why can't you?

The only person whom we are to become like is Christ, not the Christians.

 

[ephraimanesti]

I guess what most people forget as Christians is as they give advice, they need to be compassionate. The only real reason they are telling you what God asked not to do is for your own good. The truth is love means discipline. Sometimes we just forget that when we are teaching 4 year olds (just an analogy), we don't tell them facts to their faces, but we stoop down to their level to guide them step by step.

What you really need to know is salvation isn't believing in Jesus Christ but trusting your life in Him that you GIVE your life to Him. It's a natural thing to do when you are drowning and a person saved your life that you'd obey him.

There are certain things in the bible we don;t understand but as we age God reveals them to us slowly. The bible isn't a big book of rules, but written personally for everyone, in fact the rules are to prevent us from making big mistakes. The other day Numbers made more sense to me when I knew how bad pork was to the body once cooked unproperly, reminds us that we need to say grace ad sanctify the food before eating.

Don't think you're a bad person, you are. Actually we ALL are. It's natural for us to look for someone that will say "it's not your fault." but you turn the bible, actually its your fault, He has warn you of all these. But because of God's standards, none of us have the rights to point the finger at another person without looking at ourselves.

And the disappointing thing is us Christians. No matter what our gifts are (evangelism, mercy, pastoring ), satan has a way to develop pride in our midst. It's frustrating to me as a young Christian, they expect you to be just like them.

No!

The way I dress. The way I speak. As long as its decent, my God has already accepted me the way I am, why can't you?

The only person whom we are to become like is Christ, not the Christians.

YOU ARE CORRECT.

THANKS FOR EXPRESSING THE TRUTH!

ephraim

 

[Sketcher]

Is it wrong that I think secular music or an agnostic friend or drink at the bar is okay?

No, generally speaking.

What about how my guy and I love to wear black and skulls (except for my pic above because my parents took it and they wanted us to look "normal")?

No, but consider that the way we dress says something about us to the world. Do wearing those things tell the truth about you? Does it say the opposite about who you are in Christ?

What if I want to give advice from the heart instead of last week's sermon?

I like to do that. Of course, giving advice is a responsibility, and we should be careful about the advice that we give, that it doesn't lead people into sin. We're playing for God's team, not the devil's after all.

Can't I love God and believe in Jesus without holding a specific lifestyle all the time?

Yes, if by "lifestyle" you mean personal style. You don't have to be a tee-totaling, CCM-loving, Valentine-to-Jesus-writing Christian in order to be a good Christian.

 

[kellyc]

in this superficial world, people can only see your outside. it is normal that you would be categorized based on what you are wearing, your hair style, number of tatts and piercings, etc. i guess my philosophy as a christian i don't want to call attention to my outside so much as i do my inside.

in this website, once or twice i was wrong about something and i wondered why other people were so quick to jump on me and point out my mistake with glee rather than understanding. maybe that's the type of judgment that is the hardest to take.

 

[Macx]

Right on.

I guess that was why I was going rounds earlier in this thread. Some of my appearance I have changed (the Tatts, how I wear my hair) and some of it I couldn't help (the scars) but I look the way I look and have been shaped by the experiences God has given me, to be able to minister at the gates of Hell, where addiction and mental illness are about to suck souls under . . . I stand shining the Light of Christ. Being condemned by conservative Christians for working out here among the least and the lost really pushes my buttons & I tend to push back. Of course, that makes me guilty of being judgemental, but I never said I was a good person.

At the end of the day, the Body has many parts and the fingers pointing at the knee in condemnation don't do any good. The Body whole and unified makes a better bride for Christ.

 

[kellyc]

macx God doesn't waste anything. the scars you have endured are for a purpose, and you are seeing that work in your life each time you are able to go and minister where a more 'clean cut' (for lack of a better phrase) christian can't. i don't know why anyone would condemn you for that, but some people's scars are only on the inside.