Fast & Furious

[MachZer0]

Just like with the Bolten vote and republicans.

Defend your own, they must be doing the right thing....right?

The cases aren't similar. Bolten was a staffer covered by a claim of executive privilege from the outset and the case in question involved no criminal activity. holder on the other hand has been stomnewalling and misleading Congress, possibly he's committed crimes himself in the process.

 

[Sistrin]

Actually Bush Jr. was the last time this happened with Joshua Bolten.

You are talking about the 2006 dismissal of seven US attorneys by the Bush administration. In 2008 the IG of the Justice Department issued a report which stated the firings were "arbitratry". Note the absence of the word "criminal". In 2010 the DOJ closed the investigation without filing any charges, based on their determination no criminal activity had taken place.

What is currently occuring could easily amount to obstruction of justice, something only a few presidents and/or their administrations have been guilty of.

 

[RETS]

The cases aren't similar. Bolten was a staffer covered by a claim of executive privilege from the outset and the case in question involved no criminal activity. holder on the other hand has been stomnewalling and misleading Congress, possibly he's committed crimes himself in the process.

You are talking about the 2006 dismissal of seven US attorneys by the Bush administration. In 2008 the IG of the Justice Department issued a report which stated the firings were "arbitratry". Note the absence of the word "criminal". In 2010 the DOJ closed the investigation without filing any charges, based on their determination no criminal activity had taken place.

What is currently occuring could easily amount to obstruction of justice, something only a few presidents and/or their administrations have been guilty of.

Which, had someone been paying attention, was explained in THIS post.

 

[Vylo]

The cases aren't similar. Bolten was a staffer covered by a claim of executive privilege from the outset and the case in question involved no criminal activity. holder on the other hand has been stomnewalling and misleading Congress, possibly he's committed crimes himself in the process.

What crimes has he committed again?

 

[MachZer0]

What crimes has he committed again?

The criminal activity I mentioned should be obvious. It certainly is to Brian Terry's parents. As for Holder, he may very well be guilty of perjury and lying to Congress. He's already had to retract to assertions he has made to Congress. That seems to be evidence of lying right there

 

[Vylo]

The criminal activity I mentioned should be obvious. It certainly is to Brian Terry's parents. As for Holder, he may very well be guilty of perjury and lying to Congress. He's already had to retract to assertions he has made to Congress. That seems to be evidence of lying right there

It isn't obvious if he wasn't a) participating in it b) it was backed by previous precedent, which it certainly seemed to be.

Now the perjury might be interesting.

 

[MachZer0]

It isn't obvious if he wasn't a) participating in it b) it was backed by previous precedent, which it certainly seemed to be.

First, I didn't say that Holder was involved in any crime reagarding Terry's death. I said crimes were committed. Second, there is no precedent.

Now the perjury might be interesting.

I'm sure our liberal friends will be calling for Holder's head just like they did for Scooter Libby

 

[Rion]

Murdered Border Agent’s Family Says President Obama ‘Compounding This Tragedy’ with Executive Privilege Assertion - ABC News

 

[freezerman2000]

Murdered Border Agent’s Family Says President Obama ‘Compounding This Tragedy’ with Executive Privilege Assertion - ABC News

It does look like a slap on the cheek, doesn't it?

 

[Rion]

Punch to the gut is more like it.

 

[MachZer0]

Punch to the gut is more like it.

Funny how our liberal friends like to talk about our right to know, until the dear Leader says we don't have the right to know. Then they changed their tune

 

[freezerman2000]

Funny how our liberal friends like to talk about our right to know, until the dear Leader says we don't have the right to know. Then they changed their tune

And try to lay the blame on some one else..

 

[NightHawkeye]

Funny how our liberal friends like to talk about our right to know ...

Transparency ...

Information will not be withheld just because I say so. It will be withheld because a separate authority believes my request is well grounded in the Constitution.

Let me say it as simply as I can: Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency.
​

Remarks of the President in Welcoming Senior Staff and Cabinet Secretaries to the White House | The White House

... until the dear Leader says we don't have the right to know. Then they changed their tune

 

[Assuredcw]

And try to lay the blame on some one else..

OK, let's have the local police department put all of their open files out for all of us to see. Seriously?!

Surely you see the difference between Federal Law Enforcement and "government." Holder is Federal law enforcement. He is the Big Kahuna of the FBI, Alcohol Tobacco & Firearms, the Drug Enforcement Administration, all of the US Attorneys, Interpol (probably a primary contact), and countless other things.

Here's a helpful organizational chart:

USDOJ: about: Department of Justice Agencies

His files are as heavy duty as it gets, and have to be kept extremely confidential unless you KNOW he has done something illegal. The people who work directly with him can provide proof of that. The people lower down on the food chain who don't report to him can't prove a darned thing, because if they don't report to him, he didn't do it. The whistleblowers who went to Congress don't have proof - they are disgruntled ATF employees who don't even report to Holder. Tough. Congress can't use this "evidence" to demand to see files that Holder doesn't want them to see. He has a good reason - he's got a huge mess to investigate and doesn't need to be tipping anyone off, including Congress, until it's completed. If he is even offering to debrief you, you should say "Thank you" and accept. Contempt for just doing his job is crazy, and I don't see this getting much further. Obama shouldn't have had to invoke Executive Privilege, which is why he took so long to do this. He probably can't believe this is happening either.

 

[MachZer0]

OK, let's have the local police department put all of their open files out for all of us to see. Seriously?!

Surely you see the difference between Federal Law Enforcement and "government." Holder is Federal law enforcement. He is the Big Kahuna of the FBI, Alcohol Fire & Tobacco, the Drug Enfrocement Administration, all of the US Attorneys, Interpol (probably a primary contact), and countless other things.

Here's a helpful organizational chart:

USDOJ: about: Department of Justice Agencies

His files are as heavy duty as it gets, and have to be kept extremely confidential unless you KNOW he has done something illegal. The people who work directly with him can provide proof of that. The people lower down on the food chain who don't report to him can't prove a darned thing, because if they don't report to him, he didn't do it. The whistleblowers who went to Congress don't have proof - they have disgruntled ATF employees who don't even report to Holder. Tough. Congress can't use this "evidence" to demand see files that Holder doesn't want them to see. He has a good reason - he's got a huge mess to investigate and doesn't need to be tipping anyone off, including Congress, until it's completed. If he is even offering to debrief you, you should say "Thank you" and accept. Contempt for just doing his job is crazy, and I don't see this getting much further. Obama shouldn't have had to invoke Executive Privilege, which is why he took so long to do this. He probably can't believe this is happening either.

You'd think that after a year and a half of investigations he could at least believe it's happening. If not, what will it take to make him believe it?

 

[Rion]

Documents obtained by CBS News show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) discussed using their covert operation "Fast and Furious" to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.

Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

Booya! Proof that is what they were doing!

 

[freezerman2000]

OK, let's have the local police department put all of their open files out for all of us to see. Seriously?!

Surely you see the difference between Federal Law Enforcement and "government." Holder is Federal law enforcement. He is the Big Kahuna of the FBI, Alcohol Fire & Tobacco, the Drug Enfrocement Administration, all of the US Attorneys, Interpol (probably a primary contact), and countless other things.

Here's a helpful organizational chart:

USDOJ: about: Department of Justice Agencies

His files are as heavy duty as it gets, and have to be kept extremely confidential unless you KNOW he has done something illegal. The people who work directly with him can provide proof of that. The people lower down on the food chain who don't report to him can't prove a darned thing, because if they don't report to him, he didn't do it. The whistleblowers who went to Congress don't have proof - they are disgruntled ATF employees who don't even report to Holder. Tough. Congress can't use this "evidence" to demand see files that Holder doesn't want them to see. He has a good reason - he's got a huge mess to investigate and doesn't need to be tipping anyone off, including Congress, until it's completed. If he is even offering to debrief you, you should say "Thank you" and accept. Contempt for just doing his job is crazy, and I don't see this getting much further. Obama shouldn't have had to invoke Executive Privilege, which is why he took so long to do this. He probably can't believe this is happening either.

LOL.."Bush did the same thing"..If you haven't seen that argument, you are blind..I've even seen,"It's a continuation of what Bush did"...Links? They are so buried it would take to much time to ferret them out...
Obama has done nothing than to try to lay the blame at his predecessor's feet for his own failings.

 

[Assuredcw]

Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

Booya! Proof that is what they were doing!

Now I'm getting annoyed. Congress needs to get something from Holder addressed to one of his subordinates in the Justice Department directing the Fast & Furious operations. But in order to get that, one of Holder's immediate subordinates in the Justice Dept needs to be a whistleblower. Can anyone guess why they won't do that? Anybody? Maybe because Holder wasn't directing traffic at the ATF (a separate agency with its own management) and only found out about the mismanagement of the operation when it went awry?

He may have known about Fast and Furious, but that does NOT mean that the details of the operation were submitted to him for his approval. And as soon as he found out that the operation didn't work as intended (for whatever reason, and I suspect a HUGE bribe), he dictated revised ground rules to the new management (the other heads rolled) at the ATF. That must have been a pain, because as you can see from the above organizational chart, he has a LOT of agencies under him, and he doesn't have time to babysit.

 

[Vylo]

Shouldn't be much doubt with "brainwash" holder in there.

 

[Assuredcw]

Here is an update from the Washington Post. The Committee voted to hold Holder in contempt, but it still has to be presented to the full House for a vote. It then has to go to the US Attorney for the District of Colombia for review. This is far from over, and there is an incredible amount of accountability where Holder is concerned. If he has done something wrong, someone other than "Issa and company" will say specifically what that is. But Congress is going way too high on the totem pole on this, and in doing so will fail to hold those who "redirected" Fast & Furious truly accountable. Someone has already been fired, but maybe someone who was fired needs to be executed now. Holder has to finish his investigation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...-in-contempt/2012/06/20/gJQAaEUArV_story.html