Fast & Furious

[Rion]

Here is an update from the Washington Post. The Committee voted to hold Holder in contempt, but it still has to be presented to the full House for a vote. It then has to go to the US Attorney for the District of Colombia for review. This is far from over, and there is an incredible amount of accountability where Holder is concerned. If he has done something wrong, someone other than "Issa and company" will say specifically what that is. But Congress is going way too high on the totem pole on this, and in doing so will fail to hold those who "redirected" Fast & Furious truly accountable. Someone has already been fired, but maybe someone who was fired needs to be executed now. Holder has to finish his investigation.

Fast and Furious: Eric Holder held in contempt - The Washington Post

Or we could get someone we could trust to do the investigation.

 

[Assuredcw]

We need PROOF he did something wrong in order to derail his investigation in this way (forcing disclosure of the details of his investigation).

Here is another situation being investigated (in this case by the SEC), in which the chief investigator declined to answer questions about her investigation:

JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon testifies he did not mislead shareholders - Los Angeles Times

Quoting from the link:

...Securities and Exchange Commission Chairwoman Mary Schapiro said her agency was investigating whether JPMorgan complied with public disclosure rules, specifically regarding changes to how it measures the risk of loss on portfolios.
In disclosing the huge losses on May 10, Dimon told analysts and reporters that the company had changed its so-called value-at-risk model in the first quarter, Schapiro said. Such changes must be disclosed and the SEC was looking into the extent of that disclosure and whether it was adequate, she said.
Schapiro wouldn't comment on whether Dimon misled investors in mid-April when he told analysts on a conference call that reports about risky trades emanating from the bank's London office were "a tempest in a teapot."
But she said executives of publicly traded companies must give accurate information about their finances when speaking in public.
"If you choose to speak, you absolutely must speak truthfully and completely and not allow yourself to leave any kind of misleading impression from the information that you're putting out," she said.

No one intimates that Ms. Schapiro is "covering up" anything in failing to disclose what she might have uncovered in her investigation (let alone whether she received any tips that aided her investigation, or who might have provided them). Holder should be seen in this same light, in the absence of actual proof that he directly authorized letting those gun purchasers disappear. He wasn't close enough to the operation to have played a direct role. He is the solution to the problem, and not the source of it.

 

[Rion]

LoL

 

[Sistrin]

LoL

Agreed. Simple obfuscation.

 

[RETS]

Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

Booya! Proof that is what they were doing!

Smoking gun, anyone?

Now I'm getting annoyed.

Then what have you been for the last 40 pages?

LoL

Very nice.

 

[Illuminaughty]

They might be talking about Operation Wide Receiver which did start under the Bush Admin.

Earlier ATF gun operation ‘Wide Receiver’ used same tactics as ‘Fast and Furious’

 

[Abatis]

They might be talking about Operation Wide Receiver which did start under the Bush Admin.

The gun walking operation (Wide Receiver) that went down under Bush had significant operational and tactical differences from the Obama administration's Fast and Furious. The most significant was that actual attempts were made to track the weapons. They were implanted with RFID chips and under constant surveillance. The transfers from straw buyer to smuggler were "controlled deliveries" again under surveillance and the most important difference, the operation was done with the knowledge and cooperation of the Mexican government.

Mexican authorities were tasked with continuing the surveillance and the actual interdiction and seizure of the weapons and arrest of the smugglers once they were in Mexico.

When US authorities learned that either through ineptness or corruption, that the guns were not seized and the gunrunners were not arrested and the guns were lost, THE ENTIRE OPERATION WAS SHUT DOWN.

Now, on the other hand, Fast and Furious never had a real "law enforcement" objective. Known gun traffickers (actually FBI informants) were permitted to straw purchase and transfer nearly 2000 guns to smugglers connected to the narco-terrorist Sinaloa Cartel with no further investigation / interdiction attempted or intended with the sole intent to have these weapons turn up at crime scenes on both sides of the border.

This operation was not flawed, it didn't go awry, it worked to perfection and the unavoidable multiple instances of criminal misuse that the operation was created to achieve, was realized.

The potential impact of Fast and Furious is ongoing and in fact no end is in sight because nearly 2000 AK/AR variants and .50 cal sniper rifles and FN-57 pistols are in the hands of narco-terrorists on both sides of the US/Mexico border. As AG Holder admitted, “Unfortunately, we will feel its effects for years to come as guns that were lost during this operation continue to show up at crime scenes both here and in Mexico,’’ .

ATF gunwalking under Holder caused the deaths of two US federal law enforcement agents, the brother of a state prosecutor in Mexico and now more than 300 Mexican nationals . . . And democrats just say it is a political witch hunt and the particulars are not enough to even give them pause.

There is another issue that has not made the mainstream media (even Fox) that, if confirmed, can expand the suspicion beyond DoJ to DHS. This has to do with the murder of ICE Agent Jaime Zapata with guns walked in a Texas operation under Holder's ATF.

It has always been maintained that Zapata's murder had nothing to do with Fast and Furious and Janet Napolatano testified to that before the House Oversight Committee. Problem is, a whistleblower has recently provided documents that have Zapata's name and signature on ROI (Reports of Investigation) on Fast and Furious guns and suspects.

ICE was always told to stand down and defer to ATF whenever Fast and Furious guns or suspects were seized and for him to be writing and filing reports on Fast and Furious guns and suspects is unusual.

There was always chit-chat that Zapata's family would be filing a big money wrongful death suit against the US government and interestingly, it was officially filed June 14th.

So how much of this Executive Privilege claim was done to protect ATF/Holder and DHS/Janet Napolitano from perjurous statements and the discovery process in a $25 million civil lawsuit???

 

[Assuredcw]

You can't solve the problem by pinning it on the AG. You have to PROVE the AG did something wrong and replace him, or let him get on with his investigation. There are no other choices. We only have ONE Attorney General - there is no one else to take up the slack.

 

[Vylo]

You can't solve the problem by pinning it on the AG. You have to PROVE the AG did something wrong and replace him, or let him get on with his investigation. There are no other choices. We only have ONE Attorney General - there is no one else to take up the slack.

But he did do something wrong. There was an obviously inept person with an obviously deficient program in place under his watch.

This boils down to Holder using this for his anti-gun propaganda and newell being completely useless as any form of law enforcement.

I'll give Obama the benefit of the doubt, as most presidents would defend operations such as this with executive privilege, but Holder should be accountable for these things happening under his watch, potentially with his own endorsement to further gun regulations.

 

[Assuredcw]

This boils down to Holder using this for his anti-gun propaganda and newell being completely useless as any form of law enforcement.

Ok. You must watch a lot of Fox News...

 

[Vylo]

Ok. You must watch a lot of Fox News...

You must not have been here for several years. I'm liberal, voted for Obama, and probably will this year. That doesn't mean I turn a blind eye to people threatening the 2nd amendment, in fact it is one of the biggest problems I have with the democratic party is gun regulation.

Holder has blantantly stated he wants to brainwash people against guns (his own words). He could be encouraging responsible gun ownership, instead he chooses to just rally against guns in general.

 

[TerranceL]

Ok. You must watch a lot of Fox News...

It's nice that when you don't have a response you fall to insults.

So people who read the news and come to logical conclusions are what happens when you watch fox news?

 

[Bubbahotep]

I just want to know why this story isn't bigger. An administration oversees the distribution of American guns to known violent drug cartels in a failed sting operation that results in a dead border agent and who knows how many dead Mexicans all the while pressing the need for tighter gun regulation because of the flow of American guns into Mexico...without mentioning his administration in enabling said criminal gun running.

The contempt shown by this administration towards the people and the constitution is incredible in its blatantness and scope.

 

[TerranceL]

He may have known about Fast and Furious, but that does NOT mean that the details of the operation were submitted to him for his approval.

So we are now to believe that Fast and Furious was a rogue operation? What?

And as soon as he found out that the operation didn't work as intended (for whatever reason, and I suspect a HUGE bribe), he dictated revised ground rules to the new management (the other heads rolled) at the ATF.

He claimed before congress that he didn't know about it until it became public so how exactly would he be dictating ground rules?

Heck, even you think he commited purjery.

That must have been a pain, because as you can see from the above organizational chart, he has a LOT of agencies under him, and he doesn't have time to babysit.

And yet it's his job to provide oversight.

 

[HerbieHeadley]

Operation Fast and Furious was a 100% treasonous operation under the Obama/Holder DOJ & Obama/Nappy/Clinton are all involved knee deep.
Obama knew about Gun Walking in March, 2009 - YouTube

The Gunwalker Scandal: Overview and Timeline
(updated June 21, 2012)
http://rinosandrats.com/2011/09/the-gunwalker-scandal-overview-timeline/

JointStaff Report Prepared for:

Rep. Darrell E. Issa Chairman
United States House of Representative
Committee on Oversight and Government Reform

Senator Charles E. Grassley, Ranking Member
United States Senate
Committee on the Judiciary
112th Congress

June 14 2011
http://www.scribd.com/doc/86505046/Gunwalker-Operation-Report-Fast-and-Furious

 

[Assuredcw]

Operation Fast and Furious was a 100% treasonous operation under the Obama/Holder DOJ & Obama/Nappy/Clinton are all involved knee deep.
....

Oh, and President Bush's Administration had nothing to do with it? You jump right over Bush to Clinton?! Alrighty then...

 

[Vylo]

Oh, and President Bush's Administration had nothing to do with it? You jump right over Bush to Clinton?! Alrighty then...

I think he was refering to Mrs. Clinton.

 

[Assuredcw]

I think he was refering to Mrs. Clinton.

Anyway...

This is an interesting video for you Fox "News" fans, on how the rest of the media world views Fox "News'" coverage of this entire Fast & Furious situation. She goes through an entire explanation of why they aren't like the other people. Stay with her - this is worth hearing out.

Rachel Maddow Show

Is this another Shirley Sherrod situation? Are Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity going to end up apologizing to Holder, too?

 

[HerbieHeadley]

Oh, and President Bush's Administration had nothing to do with it? You jump right over Bush to Clinton?! Alrighty then...

The effort is to distract, conflate and confuse...

Operation Wide Receiver was shut down in 2007

One was a small part of a failed law enforcement operation that was shut down immediately. The other was a criminal conspiracy.

Wide Receiver was a botched, small-scale, law enforcement gun-smuggling interdiction effort that involved local Phoenix-based ATF agents working in conjunction with Mexican law enforcement. When guns were lost — roughly 200 — irate supervisors immediately shut down the program.
Wide Receiver could hardly be any more different than Fast and Furious.
　
Unlike Wide Receiver, Operation Fast and Furious excluded Mexican government officials. Instead of working in conjunction with Mexican law enforcement in order to prevent gun smuggling, the operation was designed to ensure that more than 2,000 guns would be successfully smuggled into Mexico by the drug cartels to be used in violent crimes.

http://pjmedia.com/blog/new-documents-highlight-differences-in-bush-era-obama-era-gunrunner-investigations/?singlepage=true

'Operation Wide Receiver was a Bush-era BATFE operation run in Tucson, conducted in full coordination with Mexican authorities, that sought to track and interdict guns being smuggled south using a combination of RFID-tracking devices embedded in the shipments and surveillance aircraft. Wide Receiver failed because of the limitations of the technology used, compounded by inept, untested installation, and the unexpected resourcefulness of cartel gun smugglers. As a result of the mistakes made in Wide Receiver, guns were lost: approximately 450 made it into Mexico. This botched operation that was launched in 2006 — and in this instance, actually botched — was shut down in 2007.

Compare the unintentional mistakes of Wide Receiver to the deliberate failure of the Fast and Furious operation launched under Eric Holder’s Department of Justice, which had all the advantages of learning from the postmortem failures of Wide Receiver two years before at its immediate disposal.

Yet, unlike Wide Receiver, F&F had no operational basis whatsoever for tracking and interdicting “walked” weapons, and no plan of any kind to support its success. Where Operation Fast and Furious was a multi-agency, multi-department plot involving high-ranking government appointees and possibly elected officials, Operation Wide Receiver was a local BATF operation, using untested new technologies in an attempt to interdict and capture weapons smugglers. Fast and Furious used neither tracking devices nor surveillance aircraft, and ran interference for smugglers with local law enforcement on multiple occasions. Further, unlike Wide Receiver, coordination of the operation with Mexican authorities on the other side of the border was never even attempted, and federal agents of F&F were specifically not allowed to interdict weapons."'
http://rinosandrats.com/2011/09/the-gunwalker-scandal-overview-timeline

Unlike Fast and Furious, Operation Wide Receiver was a legitimate law enforcement operation with clear lines of responsibility. There is no question who planned it, who implemented it, who was responsible for it. Law enforcement officlals in the US and Mexico worked together—F&F was hidden from the Mexican government–and the weapons involved were continually tracked. When weapons were lost, the operation ended and no one died.

Thus far, hundreds of Mexicans have been killed by weapons run to Mexican drug cartels under Fast and Furious, as have two American law enforcement agents. ATF agents and administrators who have blown the whistle have been retaliated against.

http://www.gunvaluesboard.com/fast-and-furious-update-and-forecast-848.html

A confidential informant, Mike Detty who was a gun dealer in Operation Wide Receiver, specifically told David Codrea of the Gun Rights Examiner that the Bush administration was not involved in the gun walking program. To me, that’s a moot point. The truth of the matter remains that we know for a FACT that Eric Holder knew about OFF and lied to congress when asked about it.
　
http://coffeenchat.wordpress.com/2011/10/07/operation-wide-receiver-vs-operation-fast-and-furious/

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/

http://www.examiner.com/article/wide-receiver-ci-it-had-nothing-to-do-with-bush-or-even-doj?CID=examiner_alerts_article
　
Mexico's Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth (perpetrated by Clinton, Holder, Obama, Nappy and other anti-gun rights Commies)
http://gunowners.org/op02112011.htm

 

[Bubbahotep]

If nothing else they repeated the same mistake just two years after the atf had done it, and the ATT was even involved again. How did nobody speak up and make sure this wasn't a complete repeat of a failure? Even if you think they had good intentions, the incompetence alone is criminal.

And if releasing further info would compromise other government ops, then GOOD! What else are they doing that we dont know about? What other crimes are they commiting and covering up? This is hardly the first time our government has helped violent drug runners before. At least last time we had a reason.