Fast & Furious

[Assuredcw]

You like it now...

I have nothing to fear.

But visit DaisyDay's thread if you have an opinion on this. I provided a link to it.

 

[RETS]

"So this is how liberty dies...with thunderous applause."

 

[Rion]

(CBS News) The lead House Republican investigating Operation Fast and Furious, Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA), today said senior Justice Department officials had specific information that their federal agents were using controversial "gunwalking" tactics.


Justice Department officials have consistently denied that was the case. But today in a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder, Issa revealed that he has reviewed sealed wiretap applications in the case, which were signed off on the authority of Holder's Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer. Issa wrote Holder "having seen the wiretap applications, we now know that the information coming from the (Justice) Department has been misleading. That must stop."

...

"The wiretap applications obtained by the [House Oversight] Committee show such statements made by senior [Justice] Department officials... to be false and misleading," said Issa's letter. He added the applications "detail specific actions taken by agents in Fast and Furious. This includes conscious decisions not to interdict weapons that agents knew were illegally purchased by smugglers taking weapons to Mexico," also called "gunwalking."

Oh, snap!

 

[Assuredcw]

Darryl Issa is not willing to trust anyone else to NAIL Eric Holder. That's because he isn't sure anyone else is as single-minded and dedicated to achieving this end, as himself. There are two separate Inspector Generals on this right now - one from the Justice Dept itself, and another one from Homeland Security. But no one is as dedicated to making sure that Eric Holder is NAILED to the WALL as Darryl Issa. I have never seen anything like this, and I hope to never see it again. Unbelievable!

 

[Rion]

Justice usually is.

 

[Assuredcw]

Darryl Issa is making a fool of himself. No one asked him to step in, and he shouldn't have to if Holder has done anything wrong. Let someone else "catch" him. It looks less "kangaroo"-like that way.

 

[Rion]

The only one Issa is making out to be a fool is Holder.

 

[Assuredcw]

No, you don't see this. IF Holder is a fool, someone else has to make that case now. Because believe me, even people on Issa's side of the aisle are beginning to look at him funny.

How do I know? Because of this from this link:

Homeland Security IG Investigates Fast and Furious - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

Congressman Michael McCaul (R-TX) sits on the House Homeland Security Committee and requested the DHS IG investigation. The DHS IG has told Congressional staffers it expects to have a final report ready to deliver to Congress in early October.

Congressman McCaul doesn't need Congressman Issa to do another thing. No he hasn't said that, but what do you think?

 

[Rion]

I think you're grasping at straws.

 

[RETS]

I think you're grasping at straws.

Agreed.


Seriously- The article you posted, Rion; what else can anyone, based in REALITY, get from that?!



BTW: Obey Pres. Snow.

 

[Assuredcw]

I think you're grasping at straws.

Congressman Issa is IGNORING his fellow committee member's efforts to resolve this issue. That's not grasping at straws - Issa is IN FACT not simply waiting for the independent investigation requested by Congressman Mc Caul. Issa is demonstrating through his actions that NO ONE can be trusted to nail Holder but him. It's creepy, and it isn't his job. He and his fellow committee members are going in different directions, because why would he spin his wheels? Congress has a lot to do. Do THAT, and let the Homeland Security Inspector General perform the investigation that Congressman Mc Caul requested. Simple.

 

[RETS]

Congressman Issa is IGNORING his fellow committee member's efforts to resolve this issue. That's not grasping at straws - Issa is IN FACT not simply waiting for the independent investigation requested by Congressman Mc Caul. Issa is demonstrating through his actions that NO ONE can be trusted to nail Holder but him. It's creepy, and it isn't his job. He and his fellow committee members are going in different directions, because why would he spin his wheels? Congress has a lot to do. Do THAT, and let the Homeland Security Inspector General perform the investigation that Congressman Mc Caul requested. Simple.

He and his fellow committee members are doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing. Let me lay it out for you.

• This committee investigates the handling of matters by the different branches and agencies in government that answer to them.

• Issa and his committee discovered enough to warrant a further, more in depth investigation.

• Congressman McCaul is the chairman of the Oversight, Investigation and Management subcommittee. It is his JOB to turn and request an investigation when warranted.

• Issa, who chairs the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, according to HIS job, requested Congressman McCaul to view the findings from his investigation.

• Congressman McCaul then, in accordance with his JOB, called for the investigation by Homeland Security- Whose committee, by the way, he is ALSO a part of.

In other words, Issa is not being ignored, nor is he ignoring anyone else. Issa and McCaul are BOTH doing their jobs as outlined.

You know who is not? AG Holder.


From Issa's Facebook:

Justice Department Officials who report directly to AG Eric Holder knew and SIGNED OFF on documents containing the details of gun walking in deadly Operation Fast & Furious. This removes all doubt that Fast & Furious was a Washington D.C. operation.

The comments on this are also very interesting.

Once more- The case against Holder (in part):

“Perhaps the most damning assessments of the Department’s handling of the fallout from Operation Fast and Furious have come from two Justice Department officials. Kenneth Melson, the former Acting AFT Director during the pendency of Fast and Furious, told Congress that, “it appears thoroughly to us that the department is really trying to figure out a way to push the information away from their political appointees at the department.” Patrick Cunningham, who had been tasked by the Justice Department with investigating ATF whistleblower allegations of gunwalking, would later invoke his Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination in refusing to answer questions about his work.”

From the report to Congress by the US Office of Inspector General:

There also are several significant ongoing reviews underway, including the investigation into the gun trafficking operation known as Operation Fast and Furious... The OIG is reviewing ATF’s firearms trafficking
investigation known as Operation Fast and Furious, and other investigations with similar objectives, methods, and strategies. The review is examining the development and implementation of the investigations; the involvement of the Department (including ATF, the Criminal Division, and USAOs) and other law enforcement or government entities in the investigations; the guidelines and other internal controls in place and compliance with those controls during the investigations; and the investigative outcomes.

Also, due to the fact that you took me to task for disliking Janet Napolitano, asserting that she was obviously competent to do her job or she wouldn't be there, you may find THIS interesting- Apparently, others within our government, (including Congressman McCaul) are wondering about her competency (being a part of the total DHS leadership) as well:

Washington, D.C. – A lack of quality leadership in the Department of Homeland Security is the primary contributor to morale levels that are among the lowest in the federal government. This was the consensus of a range of homeland security and human resource experts who testified before a homeland security oversight hearing chaired by Congressman Michael McCaul (R-TX).

Finally, Let's look at the actual words of Eric Holder:

Chairman Issa, Ranking Member Cummings, and members of the Committee, I am here today because I understand and appreciate the importance of congressional oversight, and because I am committed to ensuring the highest standards of integrity and professionalism at the
Department of Justice.

Obviously not, as proven by the mass of evidence which has lately been presented. It's not only this case, by the way, Assured. The DOJ did not move on CAIR either, though they had more than sufficient evidence. (See: United States v Holy Land Foundation)

Moreover, there's the AG's own stance on what is the "top priority" of the Justice Department:

Prosecuting the perpetrators of bias-motivated crimes is a top priority of the Justice Department.

Anyhow- Let's move on, shall we?

Today, I’d like to discuss some of these improvements in specific terms – and outline the steps that we have taken to ensure that the flawed tactics used in Operation Fast and Furious – and in earlier operations under the prior Administration – are never again used. ...allowing guns to “walk” – whether in this Administration or in the prior one – is wholly unacceptable...

The "flawed tactics" he's talking of is NOT the Fast and Furious program; that had been working fine until he took office. It could, perhaps, be coincidental. However, coinciding with his taking the office, the ATF ceased placing tracking devices within the guns being allowed to "fall" into the hands of cartels and gun runners. These tracking devices aided the ATF and their Mexican counterparts in dozens of successful raids. The flaw in the tactics was their allowing those guns out without the tracking devices. Now, the question is: Why?!

Allowing those guns to "walk" was an absolutely acceptable method- WHEN THEY WERE TRACKED. When they ceased tracking them, it became unacceptable. They ceased tracking them around the time of Holder's taking office.

That’s why, when I learned early last year about the allegations raised by ATF agents involved with Fast and Furious, I took action. In addition to requesting an Inspector General investigation last February, I ordered that a directive be sent prohibiting the use of such tactics.

Here's perjury number one. He did NOT learn about this "early last year." He was briefed on the entire operation shortly after he took office. Like the President, the AG does not assume the office without being briefed on EVERY operation, program and action they are going to be involved in. Period. It DOES NOT HAPPEN.
Moreover, there is no request for investigation from Holder to the Inspector General on file. At all. Not February of 2011, not prior, not since. Not one.

Congress has sought answers to questions about law enforcement Operations Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious. And my colleagues and I at the Department of Justice have worked diligently to provide those answers.

Except, they were NOT providing those answers. They have stonewalled the entire investigation from day one. Again, the evidence is there; it is incontrovertible.

These agents explained that ATF’s ability to stem the flow of guns from the United States into Mexico suffers from a lack of effective enforcement tools.

Again, the "effective enforcement tool" that was needed was put to a stop about the same time Holder took office. It was the tracking device that was placed within each of the weapons the cartels and gunrunners were allowed to get their hands on.

This is the most troubling part of his entire testimony:

Unfortunately, in 2011, a majority of House Members – including all members of the majority on this Committee – voted to keep law enforcement in the dark when individuals purchase multiple semi-automatic rifles, shotguns, and long guns – like AK-47s – in gun shops in four southwest-border states.
In this new year, I hope we can work together to provide law enforcement agents with the tools they desperately need – and have requested – to protect our citizens and ensure their own safety. ...Last year, a total of 177 federal, state, and local officers lost their lives in the line of duty – a 16
percent increase over 2010. More than 70 of these deaths involved firearms – 20 percent more than the previous year. And, since the beginning of this year, an additional 14 officers have been killed – half of them in gun-related incidents.

This is troubling because Holder, the man who was told about Fast and Furious when he came into office, is now placing the blame for these deaths on Congress. Holder, the man who has been trying like hell since he first rose to power to remove access to firearms of all kinds to private citizens, is stating that because of Congress' failure to pass the bill he supported, all of those deaths have occurred.

The problem is, none of this is Congress' fault. In fact, the issues of walking guns did not occur in as high a percentage until AFTER he came to power; AFTER the ATF stopped tracking guns; and AFTER he signed off on the operations continuance.



Rion- Your take on all that I've offered?

 

[RETS]

PS: Issa is not the only one on these committees calling for Holder to resign. Rep. Peter King, the Chairman of the Committee on Homeland Security, is also calling for his resignation-- And has been since April of last year!

 

[Assuredcw]

PS: Issa is not the only one on these committees calling for Holder to resign. Rep. Peter King, the Chairman of the Committee on Homeland Security, is also calling for his resignation-- And has been since April of last year!

Oh, it is entirely too clear what Issa and his buddy pals want...

 

[RETS]

Oh, it is entirely too clear what Issa and his buddy pals want...

Amazing. You skipped over everything I had posted earlier to mock this last post.

Do you honestly take ANY of this seriously?

 

[Rion]

My take is the same as yours, RETS. It's rather obvious he's perjured himself and been incompetent, at the very least. It's also rather obvious Assured only wants to see what she wants to see.

 

[SharonL]

It will be interesting what is said in today's Congressional hearing - they have wire taps that prove that Holder knew about everything and he lied under oath. How many people here will say that nothing will be done even with proof. One vote here.

 

[Assuredcw]

Holder has the right to withhold information from Congress - he is in law enforcement. The Justice Dept is not supposed to be subject to forced subpoenas on just anything, because there is precedent for this that Issa is ignoring. Holder denies involvement in the disappearance of the those guns, and that is the only issue that concerns us.

Issa is beating a dead horse, here. I do NOT expect Holder to tell Congress anything, because they shouldn't be investigating this at all. Perhaps the Inspector General should have been involved from the start. The hearings, subpoenas, and now wiretaps are a joke.

 

[RETS]

Holder has the right to withhold information from Congress...

No he does not. He- The Justice Department- Legally answers to the Oversight Committee. Period.

The rest of your statement is utter bullpockey, but I'll address it anyway...

- he is in law enforcement.

Never heard of the Rodney King beating? Frank Serpico and the NYPD? Geronimo Pratt? The Summerdale scandal?

A badge and/or position does not a saint make.

The Justice Dept is not supposed to be subject to forced subpoenas on just anything, because there is precedent for this that Issa is ignoring.

Do you even KNOW what that precedent is?! What it entails?

Holder denies involvement in the disappearance of the those guns, and that is the only issue that concerns us.

Yes, because if HOLDER says it, it must be true. Never mind the fact that he lied under oath. Never mind the fact that he's had his fingers in this thing from the beginning, simply by virtue of BEING Attorney General.

Nope. He said, so that settles it. Funny... Sounds like one of those Christianese taglines...

Issa is beating a dead horse, here. I do NOT expect Holder to tell Congress anything, because they shouldn't be investigating this at all.

You're setting a record for wrong and erroneous statements with this thread. Holder DOES have to tell the Congressional Committee what they want to know because he is LEGALLY BOUND to ANSWER TO THEM.

You know how our country has checks and balances? YEEEEEAAAAAAAAAH.

The Justice Department answers to the Oversight Committee, as does the AG. Period. Ergo, they not only have the RIGHT to investigate; it is their DUTY to do so.

Perhaps the Inspector General should have been involved from the start. The hearings, subpoenas, and now wiretaps are a joke.

Only to someone who actually has a sense of humor about this thing. I really don't believe you are taking this seriously; nor do I believe you want the truth.

I am firmly convinced that were you in any position to protect Holder, up to and including physical violence, you would do so-- Blindly.

 

[Assuredcw]

The best course of action, in an election year in which the GOP doesn't want to look like raving LUNATICS, is to just take Congressman Mc Caul's lead and let the Homeland Security Inspector General check it out. Then hope that this ridiculous situation blows over. Because Romney will pay the price if they don't start acting a little more "normal" - LOL!

RETS:

The Justice Department- Legally answers to the Oversight Committee. Period.

Not period. There is a separation of law enforcement functions from Congress, which is explained in detail in the OP. I then found several other links, at your request, that discuss that legal separation of functions, which YOU simply refuse to acknowledge. Issa's ability to "oversee" the DOJ is not absolute, but he refuses to accept that. That's why Congressman McCaul ordered the 2nd Inspector General investigation - it's because Issa has jumped the gun and now this is a mess. Issa needs to back off, because a Congressional investigation is premature at this point. Issa won't let Holder withhold information from him, and that goes against precedent.

We are forgetting something here - it doesn't matter what Holder does or does not tell Issa, if he in FACT had no involvement in Fast & Furious. That would make him -- wait for it -- an INVESTIGATOR, and as such he has to keep what he knew and when he knew it (and who told him), close to his vest. He shouldn't be telling ANYONE that, because the people who DID THIS are listening. He wasn't supposed to know.