Family cannot be Christian

[MariaRegina]

If I do, I know I'll have some issues to work with my family. My mom and sister won't be too hard with this one. I mean I'll have to find a common ground mix them as well because they aren't part of the Eastern Orthodox Church. My dad on the other hand, when I mentioned a long time ago about my curiosity with the Roman Catholic Church, he didn't seem to keen on the idea because in his words, "They have some very strange views", and everytime I mention to people about the Eastern Orthodox Church, they always give me a confused look. So they ask is it like the Roman Catholic Church and I always answer, yes and no, based on my own information. So it'll be interesting regardless figuring out how to encorporate the issue of family and church because I know my family wants me involved with them and I would like them involved with me through this but they are pretty content with the church they go to now and I'm not out to change them, or to push them anyway if I do end up making the choice to join the church.

Funny enough, the easiest situation for me will, well I am guessing, the love life. I'm single at this time, lol.

When I left the Catholic Church, my protestant Mother was delighted. When I told her that I was becoming an Orthodox Christian, she sent me a lovely Bible cover. We still communicate and she does not try to convert me to her Baptist faith as overtly as she used to. However, when I last visited her, she made me listen to her laugh therapy tapes and told me that she likes the idea of a Laughing Jesus. I won't say more.

I love Orthodoxy. No laughing Jesus. He is my Lord and God.

 

[JacksLadder]

When I left the Catholic Church, my protestant Mother was delighted. When I told her that I was becoming an Orthodox Christian, she sent me a lovely Bible cover. We still communicate and she does not try to convert me to her Baptist faith as overtly as she used to. However, when I last visited her, she made me listen to her laugh therapy tapes and told me that she likes the idea of a Laughing Jesus. I won't say more.

I love Orthodoxy. No laughing Jesus. He is my Lord and God.

I saw a movie once where they showed Jesus laughing and danicng at the wedding in Cannan. It was refreshing because hey God did create laughter and joy... so why not a laughing and dancing Jesus(at least at the wedding). Jesus was no Stoic ,people called him a drunkard because he was not uber strict but was apparently fun to hang out with as well as wise. Something I have thought about.

 

[Mozartboy]

I saw a movie once where they showed Jesus laughing and danicng at the wedding in Cannan. It was refreshing because hey God did create laughter and joy... so why not a laughing and dancing Jesus(at least at the wedding). Jesus was no Stoic ,people called him a drunkard because he was not uber strict but was apparently fun to hang out with as well as wise. Something I have thought about.

I don't know about the "laughing Jesus" MR was talking about, but I think that most of Protestant Christianity has gotten too much into the "Jesus is my homeboy" attitude, that turns Jesus into, not our Lord and Master, but a buddy we like to hang out with on Sunday mornings.

 

[MariaRegina]

I don't know about the "laughing Jesus" MR was talking about, but I think that most of Protestant Christianity has gotten too much into the "Jesus is my homeboy" attitude, that turns Jesus into, not our Lord and Master, but a buddy we like to hang out with on Sunday mornings.

That is true.

The idea of a Laughing Jesus is disturbing. True Christ did drink but He did not become drunk. He probably laughed as that is a natural human response to the unexpected, but I honestly do not think that he did unsober belly laughs to the point where he was out of control. He being God was in full control of His emotions.

 

[JacksLadder]

That is true.

The idea of a Laughing Jesus is disturbing. True Christ did drink but He did not become drunk. He probably laughed as that is a natural human response to the unexpected, but I honestly do not think that he did unsober belly laughs to the point where he was out of control. He being God was in full control of His emotions.

But that would not make him fully human but only partially human. To deny Christ loved his mother , cried, laughed at jokes, danced would be to deny his humanity and put too much emphasis on his divinity in my view.

 

[-Kyriaki-]

Not really. You can be fully human without sinning - Christ did it You can be fully human and feel (and express emotions), the thing is that in His case He would have had a handle on it, and not let things get to extremes.

Meet Orthodox monastics if you want to see what I mean - they have emotions and a sense of humour (every monastic I've met likes to joke and tease sometimes!) but they try to keep that on a leash.

 

[JacksLadder]

Is int that the whole point of Christianity. That God became fully human as well as being divine. That he experienced everything we experienced. That he felt pain, as well as joy? The fact he was called a drunkard ment he must have had a drink and enjoyed himself(not becoming drunk) probably laughed (yes found things funny) and cried with his followers. If not then he would be too distant to be the Christ.

 

[JacksLadder]

Not really. You can be fully human without sinning - Christ did it You can be fully human and feel (and express emotions), the thing is that in His case He would have had a handle on it, and not let things get to extremes.

Meet Orthodox monastics if you want to see what I mean - they have emotions and a sense of humour (every monastic I've met likes to joke and tease sometimes!) but they try to keep that on a leash.

When did I ever say anything about sinning? Dancing, singing, laughing, having a drink is not sinning.

 

[-Kyriaki-]

No, I was more commenting on "he didn't do all this (stuff that we do) so therefore he's not fully human". Not equating the two!

Though anything taken to extreme is sin really - drunkenness rather than drinking in moderation, gluttony instead of eating what you need (and enjoying your food is not a bad thing), sexual extremes, etc - happiness (however you define it) taken to extremes is bad too. But too little of things is bad too (in a vacuum, fasting etc with the direction of your spiritual father is different) - Orthodoxy seeks a middle ground with such things.

The point we're making is that Christ was sober - he did all good things in moderation, without falling to either extreme.

 

[JacksLadder]

The point we're making is that Christ was sober - he did all good things in moderation, without falling to either extreme.

I agree but a sober person can be a good friend and laugh and dance. Thus a sober person can be a homeboy.

 

[JacksLadder]

One thing I have missed since I stopped going to protestant churches a couple of weeks ago and focused on Catholic and Orthodox churches is the Christ as a close friend.

The Catholic and Orthodox Christ seems as distant as the father sometimes. I have to go through a priest, then saints,then Mary to get to Christ then the father. It seems very cold and beaurocratic. Like it it meant to keep you out.

I listened to a Islamic podcast the other day and they made a case that God was too good to have scriptures with prophets that did not do things in moderation. That while they sinned before they were prophets once they became prophets they were stone cold sober people. That God did not come for you as a individual but that you must conform to a distants God's will. This sounds all too familiar to what I am reading here and makes me a bit nervous.

 

[-Kyriaki-]

It's the "moderation" thing again. God as Trinity (and no person of the Trinity is distant in Orthodox theology) loves us so much that Christ became incarnate. Orthodox theology tends to be a bit...unfuzzy. It's a culture shock for us who come from "Jesus is my buddy" evangelicalism, but it's not really that far removed - Christ is our friend, yes. But the fluffy world has made that almost like he's your best mate that you hang out with, when "friend" is one word that Scripture uses but there are an awful lot of others that command respect and reverence.

The other thing is, there's a reason why we say Orthodoxy isn't learned in theology or online it's learned in Church. You're going to get all sorts of mixed up ideas about how Orthodox people see God if all you do is read theology and argue about it with us! By all means do that, but GO TO CHURCH. You'll learn more there than anywhere else.

And you don't go to Christ through Mary, through the Saints, through the Priest. That's the completely wrong way of looking at things. We "go to Christ through them" in the same way that you "go to Christ" through your friends when you ask them to pray for you. We still pray to all three members of the Holy Trinity without having to go through anyone else. We pray "Our Father" - if that's not direct, I don't know what is. The opening prayers to most Orthodox services include the prayer "O Heavenly King, Comforter, the Spirit of Truth..." which is addressed to the Holy Spirit. And the most famous Orthodox prayer of all which we are encouraged to always have on our lips - "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me."

How is that not direct? We ask the intercessions of everyone else because...well...why wouldn't you? But that doesn't mean that we can't "get to God" without them.

 

[-Kyriaki-]

Also on soberness - please don't assume that we mean you can't laugh, joke, enjoy yourself, etc. All of the above are fine. What Orthodoxy teaches is that there should be limits to all the above, that's all. All good things in moderation - nothing to excess.

 

[choirfiend]

The Catholic and Orthodox Christ seems as distant as the father sometimes. I have to go through a priest, then saints,then Mary to get to Christ then the father. It seems very cold and beaurocratic. Like it it meant to keep you out.

Well, not to be too mean, but what a ridiculous load of hooey! Church is nothing like that, with all these "barriers" to God!!

You should probably stop being online, feeling sorry for yourself, and go pray just this second, if you want to "get to" God. You'll feel better.

 

[smithakd]

Distance?
We commune Christ every week - tasting and touching Him. That's quite the opposite of distant!

There is no necessary contradiction between dancing, laughing and consuming alcohol and Godliness. As you pointed out, Jesus did the latter of these things; considering that He was around people a lot, He probably laughed sometimes, and the culture probably had what we might consider 'traditional dancing' as a part of socialising.

As regards Jesus-as-friend...there is an element of that in Orthodoxy, too. 'Greater love hath no man than this: that [H]e lay down [H]is life for [H]is friends'. It's just a truer friendship - less cheerleader, more 'dude, I love you, enough to tell you what needs to change for you to have life abundantly'.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Distance?
We commune Christ every week - tasting and touching Him. That's quite the opposite of distant!

true true true, a thousand times true

yeah it might sound like there is some sort of cosmic hierarchy, where our prayers are sorta like memos that get passed up the God's chain of command. it isn't that way at all. there is only one Body of Christ in heaven and on earth, so when we pray ask a particular saint for his or her prayers, it's more because we are praying with them. we are together with the saints when we come before God.

 

[Blonde]

Jack, I think I kind of understand what you're dealing with. I want to know Jesus first and foremost. The saints, for me in the past, were a bit of a distraction from that.....in that I had to get to know them to feel comfortable praying with them and speaking to them.
I'd rather spend that time getting to know my Lord more. Once I know Jesus then I will think about developing other relationships.
Don't feel bad that you want to put Jesus above others and get to know Him foremost.
It is kind of interesting how He will lead you to know His people too as you learn to know Him and trust Him.
There is no barrier to Jesus, don't allow anyone or anything to erect one in your mind. He is the friend that sticks closer than a brother.
As you get to know Jesus everything else becomes lighter and more comprehendable. Everything will form in its proper perspective.

 

[Blonde]

I think Jack, if something is a stumblingblock to you it is best to put it aside and let the Lord grow you up in understanding. Don't continue beating your head on the stumblingblock. The Lord will develop things in His own time within you as you search.

 

[JacksLadder]

The last liturgy I went too was on the 28th of June and the next Liturgy at the mission is not untill the 19th of July I just keep getting so scared that I will find out that after so much time waiting for liturgies that I wont believe in orthodoxy. What if I die tommorow? I have to make it at least a year maybe a year and a half before I could even think about being baptized. If I die before then...I don't know...I have not been regenerated...scary stuff.

 

[JacksLadder]

I think Jack, if something is a stumblingblock to you it is best to put it aside and let the Lord grow you up in understanding. Don't continue beating your head on the stumblingblock. The Lord will develop things in His own time within you as you search.

I have a OCD personality so it is hard to put stuff aside. I was looking around Desert Calling and found out there is someone with OCD there in the same boat(although that person is much better with theology than I am).
I wish I could just go to church and get on with my life till the next church service but I have to constantly reasure myslef that I am on the right path.

I will try to though.