False Testimony on Todd Bentley’s Website

[Mathetes the kerux]

Uhhhh.... you may want to read the passage again. It does not say that the women are storks, only that they have wings like a stork.

And they were acting at God's command/executing God's judgement... scripture specifically records God saying, "I will send it out..."

Unfortunately brother . . . I think that the gent is right. First, the woman is typified as wickedness . . . then the images of women are associated with unclean animals . . . and their arrival is that of deception and judgement. Remember that unclean spirits/demons presented themselves before God . . . much like the one sent to decieve the prophets in Kings and Chron. Satan is God's Satan . . . per sovereignty. Just because they are carrying out the decree of God does not make them goodly spirits . . . it may be their pleasure to decieve and God is capitalizing on their fallen natures.

Remember Paul's thorn in the flesh? Read the Greek . . . it is an ANGEL OF SATAN according to Paul . . . a demon . . . though God's plan is humility in Paul . . . I have no doubts that the spirit's intent is ill.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

Zechariah 5:5-11

This is the second of the judgment visions. God now wants us to know about the judgment of the false religions. Zechariah sees an "ephah." This was a measure that held a bit more than our bushel. This signifies something coming to the full, and being ready for judgment.

Zechariah 5:6
"... this is their resemblance through all the earth..."

The false religions are all similar in one way. They are all like this "ephah." They are all full of wickedness, and all ripe for judgment. The woman that sits in the midst of the ephah, represents the embodiment of wickedness...

Zechariah 5:7-8
"... this is a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah. And He said, This is wickedness..."


The woman here is like the woman of the Revelation 17, 18. There she is called "Mystery Babylon." The "lead" weight upon the ephah shows the power of wickedness. Even a talent of lead (122 lbs.) used as a lid, would not hold down this woman. Evil, wickedness, and sin is abounding in our world.


This "woman" symbolizes evil in religion. In Revelation 12, and many places in the Old Testament, the "woman" represents Israel, especially when the nation is in sin. Often, the Bible uses the "woman" to be symbolic of wickedness.


Matthew 13:33
"The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took and hid in 3 measures of meal, till the whole was leavened."


Revelation 2:20
"I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce..."


Revelation 17:1-7
"...Come hither, and I will shew thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters... I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast... upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus..."

Two women carry this ephah containing the woman to "Shinar". There, they will build a "house." These women have the "wings of a stork". The stork was considered an unclean bird (Leviticus 11:19). These two woman are symbolic of other evil religions that have deceitfully been preparing man for the final "mystery Babylonian" religion of the last days. There are many organizations now that are attacking true Christianity, and promoting many causes that are sinful. They will unite to endorse the false religions of the last days.

"New Age" is a conglomeration of most every false religious concept. They accept any idea or concept except fundamental Christianity. In the New Age religion, you can be a witch, or a warlock... be a Buddhist or a Hindu... believe in reincarnation, speak with demonic beings, use crystal balls, ouija boards, crystals, or tarot cards, etc... all these are accepted. Only if you say, 'There is one way to heaven, and it leads by the atoning work on the cross by Christ Jesus'... will you be rejected by this New Age religion.

The capital of this false religion will be the recently rebuilt city of Babylon in the ancient land of Shinar (now Iraq). This is also the capital of the Antichrist during part of the tribulation. This Antichrist will be a ruler of the Syria/Iraq area. Damascus (capital of Syria) will be seriously damaged in the initial war of the tribulation (Zechariah 9:1). Baghdad, capital of Iraq, was tremendously damaged in the Desert Storm war. The city of Babylon is sitting and simply awaiting someone to decide to make it the new capital. The Bible seems to indicate a soon coming merger, or joining, of Syria and Iraq. This city of Babylon will play a big part in the last days events.

For the first half of the tribulation, the Antichrist will reign from Babylon. Midway through the tribulation, it will be destroyed (Revelation 14:8). The Antichrist will move his capital to Jerusalem. The religions that merge and put their headquarters in Babylon will be tolerated, for a time, by the Antichrist, for they will see him as a messiah figure. The Antichrist is not the supreme ruler of this religion. Not until midway through the tribulation will the false prophet have the audacity to demand that all worship the Antichrist.

The revived Judaism in Jerusalem will also see him as the messiah for the first half of the tribulation. Midway in the tribulation, the persecution of the mystery Babylon against the Jews will spark a war and the city of Babylon will be destroyed. The false prophet steps up his promotion of the Antichrist and places an idol within the temple in Jerusalem and seeks to have all worship the Antichrist as a god.

 

[Father Rick]

Watchman..

If you're going to use the symbolism in the passage to determine the source of an item, then you need to use all the symbolism...

It specifically states that these women had "wind in their wings". You are saying that since the wings were "like a stork" then that means that they were "unclean". However, "wind" is used throughout the OT and the NT to represent the Holy Spirit. In fact, there are several times when God is specifically said to "ride the wings of the wind". Also... horses are unclean animals, yet the very next few verses specifically show 4 horses and identifies them as "the four spirits of heaven going out from standing in the presence of the Lord", with those going to the north giving "[God's] Spirit rest in the north". So, from a strictly symbolic standpoint the fact that their wings are "like a stork" do not prohibit them from being from God (otherwise the horses would also have to be excluded, yet scripture is explicit on them) and there is symbolism of the wind-- indicating the working of the Holy Spirit.

Now to look at the context...

If you follow the passage as a whole (meaning several chapters here), it flip-flops back and forth between pronouncements of curse/judgement and promises of restoration/redemption. In the context of the particular passage, these 2 beings are actually taking iniquity and removing it from Israel. The curse that had just been pronounced was that "every thief would be banished" and "everyone who swears falsely would be banished". Then we see that banishment actually being illustrated in iniquity being "packed up and carried off" by these 2 angels. The following passages (chapter 6) continue right along with this theme with horses sweeping over the earth bringing rest from the Spirit of God, the king of Israel being crowned, the "Branch" (Messiah) being made priest, and the exiles coming back. In short, sin is removed and righteousness is restored. All this is clearly the work of God and not demonic in nature or agency.

And all of this also shows angelic beings appearing in a variety of forms... from horses (Chapter 6) to olive trees (Chapter 4) to women with wings (Chapter 5). Couple that with Ezekiel's prophecies and John's visions on Patmos and you get quite an interesting assortment of angelic creatures.

 

[Elijah2]

I can't help but wonder if anyone have checked out the comments made in Item 1 of this thread, and since then I have viewed a number of TBs videos that have been polished up and tampered with. But of course, there is no proof if you haven’t the originals to compare with the reedited ones.

Anyway, this "wind of change" that the false teacher/prophet talks about as the “outpouring” and “revival” has caused many God-anointed ministries to be flooded with emails from millions of concerns believers of the Body of Christ.

They all basically express the same concerns and warning that those members of the Body of Christ are falling to the seduction and deception of the falseness and "signs and wonders". Of course any further comment that I make will be received with the normal contempt.

This so-called the “third wave” is no different to the “first wave” called the Toronto Blessing that fizzled out, and then the “second wave” at Pensacola, which had the same fate.

This “third wave” is no different to the “first”, or the “second”, sad as it is, folks are coming from around the world for the “anointing”, and many will be burnt the same as those in the “first” and “second”.

The editor of Charisma Magazin, Lee Grady, sounds a warning:

“My inbox has been full of messages from Charismatic leaders who are concerned about everything from Bentley's tattoos and body piercings to his claim that he once interviewed the apostle Paul in Heaven. When I called for scrutiny of some aspects of the Lakeland Revival, I was labelled a Pharisee and a ‘religious policeman’. I had suddenly become the enemy.”

So much for a revival, when any discerning Christian expresses their concerns, all those ratbags comes flying back with apostasy. Wake up the Body of Christ you are being deceived and seduced by the “angel of light”!

Be blessed in Jesus’ Name.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Watchman..

If you're going to use the symbolism in the passage to determine the source of an item, then you need to use all the symbolism...

It specifically states that these women had "wind in their wings". You are saying that since the wings were "like a stork" then that means that they were "unclean". However, "wind" is used throughout the OT and the NT to represent the Holy Spirit. In fact, there are several times when God is specifically said to "ride the wings of the wind". Also... horses are unclean animals, yet the very next few verses specifically show 4 horses and identifies them as "the four spirits of heaven going out from standing in the presence of the Lord", with those going to the north giving "[God's] Spirit rest in the north". So, from a strictly symbolic standpoint the fact that their wings are "like a stork" do not prohibit them from being from God (otherwise the horses would also have to be excluded, yet scripture is explicit on them) and there is symbolism of the wind-- indicating the working of the Holy Spirit.

Now to look at the context...

If you follow the passage as a whole (meaning several chapters here), it flip-flops back and forth between pronouncements of curse/judgement and promises of restoration/redemption. In the context of the particular passage, these 2 beings are actually taking iniquity and removing it from Israel. The curse that had just been pronounced was that "every thief would be banished" and "everyone who swears falsely would be banished". Then we see that banishment actually being illustrated in iniquity being "packed up and carried off" by these 2 angels. The following passages (chapter 6) continue right along with this theme with horses sweeping over the earth bringing rest from the Spirit of God, the king of Israel being crowned, the "Branch" (Messiah) being made priest, and the exiles coming back. In short, sin is removed and righteousness is restored. All this is clearly the work of God and not demonic in nature or agency.

And all of this also shows angelic beings appearing in a variety of forms... from horses (Chapter 6) to olive trees (Chapter 4) to women with wings (Chapter 5). Couple that with Ezekiel's prophecies and John's visions on Patmos and you get quite an interesting assortment of angelic creatures.

I don't know . . . these agents are responsible for establishing the wickedness in a permanent standing in Shinar . . . why would good angels seek to build a house for wickedness?

The other take seems to be that the women are not literal . . . in that neither is the ephah nor the woman, wickedness, in the ephah . . . being that these two are symbolic . . . the agents may be as well. IF this is the case the two women are the nations of Assyrian and Chaldea who were used by God to mediate punishment on Israel and later Judah. The wind, then would be simply representative of the swiftness of the execution and the wings of the stork would then be simply to communicate the power and swiftness further.

Though I suppose if you take a systematic approach, there are certainly governing evil spirits over the pagan nations (as in Daniel and the princes who resisted the angelic messanger to Daniel) . . . the women would then certainly be demons who have been charged with the judgement upon Israel and Judah.

Whatever the case . . . I think it is hard to make a definite case that these are angels of God (or even demons) . . . there are too many variables; and apocalyptic symbolism is difficult to interpret without another authoritative passage to settle the issue.

At best we are back to square one . . . better to stick to TB's doctrinal issues that are clearer . . .

like the fact that this "emma" being was supposedly the same being that initiated William Branham's ministry . . . which is huge cause this gent denounced Trinity as a demonic doctrine straight from the pit of hell. I really just don't see a goodly angel as putting approval upon such a key issue.

 

[irenemcg]

If the body of Christ, whether for or against Todd Bentley focus on more of Jesus, knowing Him more, being filled with the Holy Spirit, discernment, and following Jesus in all we do we will not go wrong.
Surely it is dangerous to judge any brother or sister in Christ because they once said something which is contrary to your theological standpoint. None of us have a perfect theological understanding, we are a work in progress. The name of Jesus must be glorified at all times, He must be lifted high and God is still at work in Toronto and I believe in Pensacola. Revivals involve people , we are not perfect so the flesh does from time get involved but God can work despite us and I would be very careful about judging that which the Holy Spirit may be doing and referring to it as the work of the devil, which infact is being done here.

 

[Watchman4hm]

What we are seeing before our eyes is a culmination of the strong delusion that will be sent by God in these last days..Universalism is being packaged in a palpable way for those who dont study out what is being purported as "of God"...It has happened for a long time and has spurts here and there of popularity...The doctrine of Apokastasis (restoration of all things) is being promoted more and more within the confines of Christianity. This is no less than Universalism as well...The culmination of these teachings will be that all roads lead to God..Years ago we always heard the term "one world religion"..This is what Satan desires, a false god, deceiving even the very elect if possible, that he may be worshiped here on earth...Lying signs and wonders are already accompanying those who walk in error...Just because God confirmed His word through the apostles with signs in wonders with the establishing of the church, dont miss the warnings that before the church is taken away, the enemy of your souls is trying to copy what God did back then..

 

[Elijah2]

Mike Oppenheimer from “Let us Reason” says, “Instead of people getting saved, they are getting lost--by listening to a man's experiences of the supernatural that are unbiblical and untrue.”

Mike continues, “This revival has all the spiritual sensations and activities of the other revivals combined: Roaring, groaning, burning sensations in the body, head, and stomach; shaking, jerking, spiritual drunkenness and uncontrollable laughter and then some new manifestations. People have their eyes rolled back in the back of their heads. There are reports of women gyrating and pulsating like some unseen force has ravaged them from behind. Holy or un-holy may still be debated by some but to those of us who are knowledgeable of the previous ‘revivals’ and the power of the occult, the jury is in. The source is not the God of the Bible. This may disturb some but if they will use their Bible, pray, and think it through, they will gain discernment and spiritual understanding.”

The shakes, jerks, twitching, frozen stillness, laughter, animal sounds, and more have all been standard in other so-called “revivals” before this one. The Florida Revival is nothing new but it is preying on young and new believers who do not know their Bibles, nor understand the supernatural realm of darkness. It is also preying on the desperate, such as the sick people who can find no medical help.

As said before by many on the forum that TB talks about the mad chaos, which is totally uncharacteristic of God, our Lord Jesus Christ. TB says, “During a visitation, the pastor's wife got totally whacked by the Holy Ghost. She began running around barking like a dog or squawking like a chicken as a powerful prophetic spirit came on her.”

On “lighthouse Trails Research Project” it reports, “The following information will show Bentley's spiritual resonance with a man named Sundar Singh (1829-1929). At one point in Bentley's ministry, he had a vision of Sundar Singh. This vision influenced Bentley. According to the biographer of Singh, Singh spent much of his life in deep trance-like states communicating with spiritual beings”. Through this he saw the “glories” of the spirit world. He combined East and West in his meditative disciplines. He had long hours of meditation and days of silence.

TB talks about himself being possessed by demons undergoing a deliverance, his past Satanic worship, his mother levitating, and demons writing 666 on his cupboard in his kitchen.

It’s hard to tell the difference between the words of Bentley and those of Satan, because as reported before many times, TB says: “You see, I want to be fruitful; I want to be far above. I want to be a conqueror; I want to be a mountain of strength; I want to be greatness. You know, we like that word greatness. Well, he who dwells in the secret place of the Most High automatically comes into everything that the Almighty is. It happens.” Sounds like Isaiah 14:12-14?
TBs obsession with angels, particularly an angel named Emma and he says, “So when I need a financial breakthrough, I don't just pray and ask God for my financial breakthrough. I go into intercession and become a partner with the angels by petitioning the Father for the angels that are assigned to getting me money: ‘Father, give me the angels in heaven right now that are assigned to get me money and wealth. And let those angels be released on my behalf. Let them go into the four corners of the earth and gather me money.’”

We are warned in the Bible that the devil will “transform himself into an angel of light”, and that in the last days will come, and perilous times that “lying signs and wonders that will deceive, if possible, the very elect” (2 The. 2:9). The Bible tells us about the “wiles of the devil”, and that he is capable of the supposed “miracles” at the TBs meetings. Tragically, many pastors are having hands laid on them to receive this “Florida anointing” and further spread this deception, seduction, and chaos.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[Watchman4hm]

Concerning all this barking and chicken squawking..

Isaiah 9:18Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion. 19And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? 20To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. 21And they shall pass through it, hardly bestead and hungry: and it shall come to pass, that when they shall be hungry, they shall fret themselves, and curse their king and their God, and look upward. 22And they shall look unto the earth; and behold trouble and darkness, dimness of anguish; and they shall be driven to darkness.

 

[Simon Peter]

If the body of Christ, whether for or against Todd Bentley focus on more of Jesus, knowing Him more, being filled with the Holy Spirit, discernment, and following Jesus in all we do we will not go wrong.

Surely it is dangerous to judge any brother or sister in Christ because they once said something which is contrary to your theological standpoint.

Irene,

What would you do if a pastor started teaching the youth in your church (your kids) things that are unbiblical and just dead wrong?

From your posts, I'd imagine you'd just "focus on more of Jesus, knowing him more, disernment, and following Jesus...". In other words you'd ignore it, because you think "it's dangerous to judge any brother".

For the record, Todd Bentley has not just once said something which is contrary to sound Biblical doctrine. The Emma teaching is merely the tip of the iceburg.

Bentley is:

EXTREME Word of Faith
Latter Rain
Manifest Sons of God
(with perhaps some occult/new age/eastern mysticism)

These extreme and unbiblical beliefs influence every area of his 'christianity', and affect everything that comes out of his mouth. I strongly oppose most of what he teaches, and I refuse to let him teach my children.

Irene, what is dangerous, is when Christians claim its wrong to judge a brother.

 

[irenemcg]

Irene,

What would you do if a pastor started teaching the youth in your church (your kids) things that are unbiblical and just dead wrong?

From your posts, I'd imagine you'd just "focus on more of Jesus, knowing him more, disernment, and following Jesus...". In other words you'd ignore it, because you think "it's dangerous to judge any brother".

For the record, Todd Bentley has not just once said something which is contrary to sound Biblical doctrine. The Emma teaching is merely the tip of the iceburg.

Bentley is:

EXTREME Word of Faith
Latter Rain
Manifest Sons of God
(with perhaps some occult/new age/eastern mysticism)

These extreme and unbiblical beliefs influence every area of his 'christianity', and affect everything that comes out of his mouth. I strongly oppose most of what he teaches, and I refuse to let him teach my children.

Irene, what is dangerous, is when Christians claim its wrong to judge a brother.

I have moved from churches previously because of error in teaching. I will make a stance when I see serious error, particularly anything that detracts from the Lord Jesus Christ. BTW I was healed of a lump under my left arm weeks ago while watching the Revival on TV, Todd Bentley gave a word of knowledge and I received my healing. God can use Todd Bentley or anyone who is willing for God to work through them. God healed me, He is my healer.

 

[probinson]

A recurring theme that I see is in these discussions is that people seem to believe that focusing on Jesus and knowing Him more equates to "ignoring" a problem and/or accepting everything that is said, which is not true.

The question was asked, what if my pastor was teaching something that I thought was dangerous to my children. Let me first say, it's hardly accurate to compare how you would respond with your local pastor to Todd Bentley, and so the way I respond to my pastor, who I know and have a relationship with, is VERY much different than the way I respond to another pastor and/or someone I don't know.

"Judging a brother" was never intended to be a bunch of Christians gathering together on an Internet forum to point out error. To the contrary, the purpose of judging our brothers is to HELP them. On the VERY few occasions where my pastor has said something that didn't quite set right with me, I would speak with him about it, not with the intent to point out how wrong he was, but to point out what I believed was right. In doing so, I was able to bring light, instead of accusation.

A while back, I posted about "Correcting what is wrong or living what is right". I still live by the belief that living what is right is FAR more effective than correcting what is wrong.

As for my children I teach my children to be led of God. Therefore, if Todd Bentley or anyone else says something whacked and off-the-wall, I trust that God is able to keep them. I'm teaching them to hear and heed the voice of God, so that a voice of a stranger they will not follow. I will also teach them to not just toss aside someone just because they say something that they disagree with. "Eat they hay and leave the sticks."

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I believe that Todd Bentley is an imperfect vessel being used by God. I do not believe that he's the antichrist, nor do I believe that he has a demonic influence. I also do not believe that this is a strong "delusion" as has been put forth by some, most recently since the YouTube video on the other thread suggested it.

What I believe is that when you teach people to hear and heed the voice of God for themselves, it gives them an intimacy with the Father instead of constantly having to rely on self-appointed "watchmen". It teaches them to know the voice of the Father, and it teaches them to discern things with the Holy Spirit for THEMSELVES.

That is MY approach. I understand that not everyone takes that approach, and that's fine with me. I'm not tying to convince you that my way is the right way or the best way. But I am telling you that it works for me, and that is why I respond to these things the way I do.

 

[Simon Peter]

I have moved from churches previously because of error in teaching. I will make a stance when I see serious error, particularly anything that detracts from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Irene,

That's good to hear that you are willing to take a stand against error in teaching.

That's exactly what I and others are doing. So perhaps its not that you have an opposition to Christians judging doctrine and taking a stand against error, but more that you personally don't have a problem with Todd Bentley.

I hear you when you warn to be careful, and agree that the error must be serious. However, Todd Bentley is far far beyond any 'gray area'; if we don't take a stand against Bentley's doctrine what will we take a stand against?

 

[probinson]

if we don't take a stand against Bentley's doctrine what will we take a stand against?

Denial of the need for Christ as our savior?

I mean, there really are DANGEROUS doctrines that we have to take stand against. I just don't think we've seen anything that warrants such staunch opposition from Bentley.

IMO.

 

[Father Rick]

You know...

One of the biggest issues of the early Church was the issue of what doctrine was significant enough to be crucial to salvation... and what doctrine was not crucial.

Due to the vast differences in certain areas (especially when you look at Eastern views of spirituality compared to Western views) the church determined that there were in fact a few core issues that one MUST agree on. Other issues were considered minor and there was freedom to "agree to disagree".

That set of beliefs that all must agree on? The Nicene Creed.

Funny how we forget our past...

Jesus even went so far as to rebuke the disciples who were criticizing "others" with the statement "if they're not against us, they're with us". Oh, that we could have the same attitude as Jesus.


As to all the criticism of "eastern spirituality"... I just want to point out that a huge portion of the Church is Eastern. And Eastern spirituality is quite different in some aspects than Western spirituality... but that doesn't make either wrong. The funny thing to me is that most P/C'ers don't realize that P/C views of spirituality are actually far more Eastern than Western.

 

[Ridgeback]

Who is Todd Bentley?

 

[Simon Peter]

A recurring theme that I see is in these discussions is that people seem to believe that focusing on Jesus and knowing Him more equates to "ignoring" a problem and/or accepting everything that is said, which is not true.

I agree, anyone saying this is either being misquoted or just doesn't have a clue...

The question was asked, what if my pastor was teaching something that I thought was dangerous to my children. Let me first say, it's hardly accurate to compare how you would respond with your local pastor to Todd Bentley, and so the way I respond to my pastor, who I know and have a relationship with, is VERY much different than the way I respond to another pastor and/or someone I don't know.

Pete, You've taken the question out of context. The question was asked to point out that you can't just sit and ignore it when someone is teaching - people you care about - error.

Of course you would respond differently to your local pastor than you would to Todd Bentley, but when there's error, there still needs to be a response.

Also, please keep in mind that TB is our 'local pastor' in many ways. He is being aired in 150? countries every day, he has a huge web presence, books, teachings, audio and video. TB is being streamed into local youth groups. Members of your congregation and leadership are watching him and reading his stuff. His influence is local.

"Judging a brother" was never intended to be a bunch of Christians gathering together on an Internet forum to point out error. To the contrary, the purpose of judging our brothers is to HELP them. On the VERY few occasions where my pastor has said something that didn't quite set right with me, I would speak with him about it, not with the intent to point out how wrong he was, but to point out what I believed was right. In doing so, I was able to bring light, instead of accusation.

I agree that the primary purpose of "judging a brother" would be to help them. But this is more applicable to those close to them.

Another reason to weigh someone's doctrine, is to teach and warn those who are, or may come, under his influence. As already pointed out, sadly this is much of the world's Christian church.

As for my children I teach my children to be led of God.
...
I will also teach them to not just toss aside someone just because they say something that they disagree with. "Eat they hay and leave the sticks."

I agree with this, however, 'led by God' may mean comparing teaching to scripture, not just some warm feeling you have about someone.

And when teaching is mostly sticks with enough hay to diguise it, I'd warn my children to find a different source of food; or they're going to get hurt.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I believe that Todd Bentley is an imperfect vessel being used by God. I do not believe that he's the antichrist, nor do I believe that he has a demonic influence. I also do not believe that this is a strong "delusion" as has been put forth by some, most recently since the YouTube video on the other thread suggested it.

I believe Todd Bentley and his teachings have been influenced by demons.

What I believe is that when you teach people to hear and heed the voice of God for themselves, it gives them an intimacy with the Father instead of constantly having to rely on self-appointed "watchmen". It teaches them to know the voice of the Father, and it teaches them to discern things with the Holy Spirit for THEMSELVES..

Would you also do away with Teachers and tell people to teach THEMSELVES?
Should we do away with Prophets and tell people to "heed the voice of God for themselves"?
Pastors? ...shepherd yourself?

"Watchman" is not listed as one of the "five" (never claimed it was a ministry actually) but those who warn others about false teaching and teachers and idolatry is found throughout the Old and New Testaments.

What do you mean by "self-appointed"?

If I share my faith with someone, am I a "self-appointed" evangelist?

Are all prophets self-appointed? Or only those you disagree with?

Does "self-appointed" mean the "official church" hasn't recognized them as such?

How do you know that a person is "self-appointed"?

Could it be that I am appointed by God?

Who are you to tell others that they are "self-appointed"?

It is God who appoints.

peace,
Simon

 

[probinson]

I don't understand why the term "self-appointed" gets people so riled up. If you know in your heart that you've appointed by God, then surely it doesn't matter what someone on an Internet forum thinks.

I mean, it's apparently OK to say that people are influenced by demons, but "who are we to call others self-appointed?"

The double standard displayed is astounding.

I'm simply making observations from what I've seen and read on this forum, and from those observations, I've concluded that there are a number of people (that I will not name) that I believe are self-appointed.

That's my discernment kicking in...

 

[probinson]

Duplicate post..

 

[Simon Peter]

I don't understand why the term "self-appointed" gets people so riled up. If you know in your heart that you've appointed by God, then surely it doesn't matter what someone on an Internet forum thinks.

I mean, it's apparently OK to say that people are influenced by demons, but "who are we to call others self-appointed?"

The double standard displayed is astounding.

I'm simply making observations from what I've seen and read on this forum, and from those observations, I've concluded that there are a number of people (that I will not name) that I believe are self-appointed.

That's my discernment kicking in...

I think it's OK to weigh someone else, and warn others regarding your observations.

When I said "who are you to call others self-appointed?" I'm pointing out your double standard. (you misquoted me in your post)


You see Pete, you are also a "watchman".