False Gospels & Spiritual Attack

[Rene Loup]

I recently wrote this letter to a loved one based on recent Biblical research. I want to share this with you all to provide food for thought. Exchange ideas, learn from them, and grow in Christ-like character.

Do not expect any replies from me. I am now very busy with real life, and do not have any time for online discussions like I used to. My deepest apologies for this.

God bless!

Hello, [Recipient],

After doing some more research and personal experiences, I have found the following Bible verses...

Acts 19, 1 Corinthians 10:14-22, Exodus 23:13, Gal. 1:1-10, John 8:31-32, 8:44, 10:10, 14:6, Psalm 106:34-39

False gospels attract more spiritual attack because they are lies. Demons hate the truth, so the Canonical Gospels (except for John 7:53-8:11 and Mark 16:9-20, I strongly believe) drives them away. Simply speaking the names of pagan gods invokes them, hence why their names need to be forgotten. The Spaniards who conquered the Aztecs were in the right to destroy their codices because of this reason. Aztec culture was an evil pagan culture that needed to end, not the actual people themselves. That was Hernando Cortez's personal sin, not Christianity's as a whole. However, The Holy Bible also names a number of pagan gods and demons in their proper context, such as Mammon and Molech. I believe this is because there is a time and place for everything (Eccles. 3:1-8), especially for historical context to learn from. I admit, I do not have this entirely figured out, hence why I need to study the Bible with others in case I am wrong. We all have contributions to make, because we are all members of the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:12-27). I am open to any and all exchange of ideas from you, please and thank you.

Playing Audio Bibles, worship music, and 1 Corinthians 13-styled love songs out loud will help, but won't completely solve it. There are also biological factors involved, such as diet, exercise, sleep, and even chemical imbalances in the brain requiring medication and therapy. You can at least get rid of much of the spiritual aspects of anxiety. Why not give it a try?

Therapy is Biblical. In Mark 9:28-29 (NKJV), issues can come out only by prayer and FASTING, Biblical physical therapy. When done the right way, abstaining from food and water can promote better health. Ask your family doctor first. It can also include fasting from drugs, alcohol, inappropriate contentography, and other activities creating excess dopamine, leading to anhedonia, basically numbed pleasure response. Reducing screen time also greatly helps, especially for our generation. Exposure therapy with real life social relationships will be hard at first, but it is worth it, as I can attest! With God, all things are possible. He is with you always. Why not give it a try?

If you own any Bibles containing apocrypha and deutercanonical books, such as the book of Tobit, book of Enoch, Psalm 151, and others, I STRONGLY recommend burning them and sticking to the 66 universally accepted books of The Holy Bible. You have free will to choose whether you want to or not.

What is a quick summary of each of the 66 books of the Bible? | GotQuestions.org

I know you are a devout Catholic and should know how The Holy Bible was made by your denomination. I say it is the greatest contribution by the Roman Catholic Church to Christianity, even if it wasn't perfect. I ask you to please think about this with a group of trusted friends who enjoy Scriptural analysis and discussion. Seek diversity of thought, because progress never came from echo chambers.

God bless, [believer] in Christ!

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Burn my Bibles because they have the canonical books of the Septuagint??? Seriously???

 

[Gregory Thompson]

My discernment alarm bells were going off before being able to read the sentences.

Instead of laying blame get prayer, and stop blaming.

 

[1watchman]

Read the Holy Bible as given in a reliable version as the Authorized KJV Bible; and understand that the Old Testament is a foretelling of things to come in the New Testament. Israel's religion was set aside when they killed their Messiah --until a time as shown in Revelation that a new Israel will be restored by covenant after the universal Church is 'raptured' up to Heaven --yet to come (perhaps soon)..

When one reads John 3; John 14; Romans 8; etc. they can hear God speaking to them; who says to be taking "all the counsel of God"; "rightly dividing the Word of Truth". That is after receiving the Lord Jesus as our Savior as John 14:6 tells us. Keep looking up!

 

[pescador]

Read the Holy Bible as given in a reliable version as the Authorized KJV Bible; and understand that the Old Testament is a foretelling of things to come in the New Testament. Israel's religion was set aside when they killed their Messiah --until a time as shown in Revelation that a new Israel will be restored by covenant after the universal Church is 'raptured' up to Heaven --yet to come (perhaps soon)..

When one reads John 3; John 14; Romans 8; etc. they can hear God speaking to them; who says to be taking "all the counsel of God"; "rightly dividing the Word of Truth". That is after receiving the Lord Jesus as our Savior as John 14:6 tells us. Keep looking up!

Almost every other translation is better than the Authorized KJV Bible, a version created over 400 years ago by a group selected by King James to come up with his version of Christianity. Modern translations not only are written in today's English -- the words that we read/write/think every day -- but are based on an superior set of source documents compared to what was available to 17th Century scholars.

I recommend the NRSV, the NIV, or the NET (my favorite) if you want to understand God's Word.

It is difficult enough for us to understand the what the Biblical writers meant, since we are many, many years removed from their cultures, without obfuscating the meaning by reading the Bible in a dead language.

 

[1watchman]

I have found over my many years of walking with the Lord, Pescadore, that not only is the KJV very much the Word of God, but by regular study of it in the Scofield KJV Study Bible (obtainable at Bible Truth Publishers, Addison, IL) one can see how the meanings of all verses are to be viewed, and NOT by adding words. It is an excellent study Bible for serious seekers after the mind of our Creator-God, and a number of Bible scholars recommend it. Our modern language usage often perverts meanings by the wordings often used in our present day. We also need to realize that wordings in the KJV now are NOT altogether as in King James era. To each His own, friend! -1watchman

 

[pescador]

I have found over my many years of walking with the Lord, Pescadore, that not only is the KJV very much the Word of God, but by regular study of it in the Scofield KJV Study Bible (obtainable at Bible Truth Publishers, Addison, IL) one can see how the meanings of all verses are to be viewed, and NOT by adding words. It is an excellent study Bible for serious seekers after the mind of our Creator-God, and a number of Bible scholars recommend it. Our modern language usage often perverts meanings by the wordings often used in our present day. We also need to realize that wordings in the KJV now are NOT altogether as in King James era. To each His own, friend! -1watchman

If that's your preference, okay. I think you're inflating the benefits of the Scofield KJV Study Bible, but if it works for you, mazel tov!

I disagree with your statement that "our modern language usage often perverts meanings by the wordings often used in our present day." Good translators do their best to translate the ancient languages, their thought patterns, and their cultural understandings into our languages, thought patterns, and cultural understandings. By and large they have done an excellent job.

I have no idea what you mean by "we also need to realize that wordings in the KJV now are NOT altogether as in King James era" but I don't think it's relevant anyway.

 

[The Liturgist]

Burn my Bibles because they have the canonical books of the Septuagint??? Seriously???

Indeed, that’s a pile of nonsense right there - by that logic every Catholic, Anglican, Eastern and Oriental Orthodox and anyone with an unabridged KJV is in spiritual danger.

I also object to book burning in general.

 

[The Liturgist]

Read the Holy Bible as given in a reliable version as the Authorized KJV Bible; and understand that the Old Testament is a foretelling of things to come in the New Testament. Israel's religion was set aside when they killed their Messiah --until a time as shown in Revelation that a new Israel will be restored by covenant after the universal Church is 'raptured' up to Heaven --yet to come (perhaps soon)..

When one reads John 3; John 14; Romans 8; etc. they can hear God speaking to them; who says to be taking "all the counsel of God"; "rightly dividing the Word of Truth". That is after receiving the Lord Jesus as our Savior as John 14:6 tells us. Keep looking up!

The Authorized Version, strictly speaking, is the translation commonly ordered by King James for use by the Church of England, with the hopes of replacing the Geneva Bible both in that realm and in his native Scotland. It includes, because the Church of England uses them, the “Apocrypha” which are the deuterocanonical books of the Old Testament like Wisdom, Sirach, Maccabbees, Tobit, Judith and so on, although most print copies one finds omit these as a cost saving measure. But any fully reliable KJV, as in one that corresponds in content to the original, has them. Those without such as those the Gideons distribute are accurately called abridged editions.

 

[1watchman]

The Authorized KJV Bible is shown by Bible scholars as most reliable over 300-400 years of study. I find the Scofield KJV Study Bible to help readers to see footnotes and margin renderings to help clarifying some wordings for our understandings. It is an excellent study Bible!

 

[pescador]

The Authorized KJV Bible is shown by Bible scholars as most reliable over 300-400 years of study. I find the Scofield KJV Study Bible to help readers to see footnotes and margin renderings to help clarifying some wordings for our understandings. It is an excellent study Bible!

Your statement that the Authorized KJV Bible is shown by Bible scholars as most reliable over 300-400 years of study has no basis. It is based on older, less-reliable manuscripts. There have been thousands of new manuscripts that have been discovered in the last 400(!) years -- both Biblical and extra-Biblical -- that give translators a much better idea of the languages and cultures.

In addition, the English language has changed significantly in the past four centuries so it is extremely easy to misinterpret the olde Englyshe. For example, 2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV) says, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." In another thread, the person claimed that "study" means "the devotion of time and attention to acquiring knowledge on an academic subject, especially by means of books", where it actually means "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth" (NIV) or "Make every effort to present yourself before God as a proven worker who does not need to be ashamed, teaching the message of truth accurately" (NET)

Or Luke 14:7-10...

7 "And he put forth a parable to those which were bidden, when he marked how they chose out the chief rooms; saying unto them.

8 When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;

9 And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.

10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee." KJV

or...

"When he noticed how the guests picked the places of honor at the table, he told them this parable: “When someone invites you to a wedding feast, do not take the place of honor, for a person more distinguished than you may have been invited. If so, the host who invited both of you will come and say to you, ‘Give this person your seat.’ Then, humiliated, you will have to take the least important place. But when you are invited, take the lowest place, so that when your host comes, he will say to you, ‘Friend, move up to a better place.’ Then you will be honored in the presence of all the other guests." NIV

It's obvious which one of these is clearer and more understandable to a 21st Century reader. The goal of the Bible is to be read and understood. Feeling "holy" by using a confusing translation is absurd.

 

[Navair2]

@Rene Loup :

Apologies for not replying to the OP ( as yet ), but this is the first time reading one of your threads and I must confess that on first impression something about your avatar strikes me as very strange;
In God's word, a wolf is always symbolic of a false teacher who is both deceived ( 2 Peter 2 ) and has never had their heart changed by God to value the things of God.
They, like their father the devil, are determined to attack the sheep and to devour them, spiritually... troubling them with things that the Shepherd of their souls would never teach them.


So when I saw this thread title in the home page menu, I first began reading some of the comments, not really looking at who had started the thread;
But then my eyes fell on your name and avatar, as well as your signature...
It was then that I said to myself, "who is this person that openly represents themself as a wolf, and then starts a thread about false gospels?"

Votre avatar, et votre signature...
Où as-tu déjà eu cette idée ?
Pas La Sainte Bible, mon ami.

Do you not know that God's people are always described as sheep by their Lord,
while their enemies are always described as wolves, and His enemies as goats?

Wolves do not eat grass, they eat sheep;
Neither do they lie down with sheep in a gentle manner.

 

[Navair2]

@Rene Loup :
As for your letter, I must disagree with much of it.

From my perspective, the Roman Catholic Church ( either before or after the separation into east and west ) as we now know it, did not have any direct input into the development of the Bible, nor in determining its canon;
That was performed by the Lord working through His servants, the "invisible church" ( and always has been ) and was finished, by my best estimates, sometime during the first ( or early second ) century after the Book of Revelation was given to John on the Isle of Patmos.

The canon of Scripture ( while its exact closing date will probably never be known this side of the Lord coming again ), never did include the books of Judith, Tobit, or any of the "Apocrypha", and I firmly believe that such things were added over time by those who did not know the Lord.

As for false gospels, I do not see them as attracting attack;
Rather, they are a form of attack, and are indicative of the presence of the devil working through his children, to trouble the Lord's children and to draw off followers after themselves....

As I see it, this is where "denominations" first began,
and they continue to function in this manner today.

I also do not recommend burning anything containing the word of God, even if it is mixed with things that are not His words.
Wisdom dictates that one treat this subject carefully...

I advocate that His people simply rid themselves of books that contain things other than His pure words and seek those words in the best and most accurate translation(s) possible.

For me, that would include anything squarely and faithfully translated from the "Textus Receptus" ( preferably Beza's 1598 ) in the Greek, and anything using the "Ben Chayyim" Hebrew text ( preferably Bomberg's edition ).
In English, I highly recommend the "KJV", as well as perhaps Young's Literal and a very few others as possible "back-ups" if one cannot find an AV.

In Spanish, the Reina-Valera 1909 comes to mind, and in French the Louis Segond of 1874 comes to mind.
Also, any translation put forth by the Trinitarian Bible Society today, I consider to be worthy of the believer's trust.


I wish you well, sir.

 

[1watchman]

Some good thoughts, Navair, and I am glad to hear of others who value the Authorized KJV Bible --even if they need a good Study Bible edition to help with some wordings of olden times. I just see that earnest seekers after the mind of God need to be careful to not be looking for some more simple way to know God's Word, and miss the eternal truth He has for man by popular religious ideas.

 

[1watchman]

I believe that with the use of some good study Bibles of it, we can see a more clear meaning for our present day, without changing what God is actually saying ---as often happens in modern efforts to re-word the Bible. That help is what I found in the Scofield KJV Study Bible which helps in understanding words and meanings. We all need to be careful to not miss what God is saying by making it all simple to any casual modern reader, who cannot compare Scripture with Scripture and see the harmony of it all. Keep looking up!

 

[The Liturgist]

Your statement that the Authorized KJV Bible is shown by Bible scholars as most reliable over 300-400 years of study has no basis. It is based on older, less-reliable manuscripts. There have been thousands of new manuscripts that have been discovered in the last 400(!) years -- both Biblical and extra-Biblical -- that give translators a much better idea of the languages and cultures.

In addition, the English language has changed significantly in the past four centuries so it is extremely easy to misinterpret the olde Englyshe. For example, 2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV) says, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." In another thread, the person claimed that "study" means "the devotion of time and attention to acquiring knowledge on an academic subject, especially by means of books", where it actually means "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth" (NIV) or "Make every effort to present yourself before God as a proven worker who does not need to be ashamed, teaching the message of truth accurately" (NET)

Or Luke 14:7-10...

7 "And he put forth a parable to those which were bidden, when he marked how they chose out the chief rooms; saying unto them.

8 When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;

9 And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.

10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee." KJV

or...

"When he noticed how the guests picked the places of honor at the table, he told them this parable: “When someone invites you to a wedding feast, do not take the place of honor, for a person more distinguished than you may have been invited. If so, the host who invited both of you will come and say to you, ‘Give this person your seat.’ Then, humiliated, you will have to take the least important place. But when you are invited, take the lowest place, so that when your host comes, he will say to you, ‘Friend, move up to a better place.’ Then you will be honored in the presence of all the other guests." NIV

It's obvious which one of these is clearer and more understandable to a 21st Century reader. The goal of the Bible is to be read and understood. Feeling "holy" by using a confusing translation is absurd.

So this is a valid point in that we, for instance, say “dine” rather than “sit at meat” which sounds like the job of a barbecue chef. However, the KJV and certain newer translations do preserve the second person pronoun, which most European languages and some English dialects like some West Yorkshire forms do preserve, as “tha.” So retaining the thou, thee, thy, thine is appropriate as it is important to preserve the semantics of second vs. third person address, and the only alternative would be the adoption of “you all” which doesn’t quite cut the mustard for me.

 

[pescador]

Some good thoughts, Navair, and I am glad to hear of others who value the Authorized KJV Bible --even if they need a good Study Bible edition to help with some wordings of olden times. I just see that earnest seekers after the mind of God need to be careful to not be looking for some more simple way to know God's Word, and miss the eternal truth He has for man by popular religious ideas.

The KJV is over 400 years old! Earnest seekers look for the most accurate translation; the KJV is not accurate by 21st Century standards.

Your claim that somehow those of us who use better translations are looking for some more simple way to know God's Word and "miss the eternal truth" is ludicrous.

 

[The Liturgist]

The KJV is over 400 years old! Earnest seekers look for the most accurate translation; the KJV is not accurate by 21st Century standards.

Your claim that somehow those of us who use better translations are looking for some more simple way to know God's Word and "miss the eternal truth" is ludicrous.

Not necessarily. One can be an earnest seeker who appreciates the KJV for aesthetic reasons. It is also well known where the disputed texts are, and in some cases, these issues are controversial. For example, if we are to omit the longer ending of Mark and the Comma Johanneum, why not also strike the Adultery Pericope because the textual criticism and higher criticism indicates it to be an interpolation? There are nuances and critical editions needed even among ancient translations like the Vulgate, Peshitta and Coptic Bibles, which are often reasoned to provide a snapshot of the fourth century Greek NT. And a lack of Ge’ez, Classical Armenian, Kartvelian and Caucasco-Albanian scholarship hinders attempts at using these manuscripts for purposes of evaluating accuracy, even though these countries became Christian shortly before or around the time of the Edict of Milan.

 

[pescador]

Not necessarily. One can be an earnest seeker who appreciates the KJV for aesthetic reasons. It is also well known where the disputed texts are, and in some cases, these issues are controversial. For example, if we are to omit the longer ending of Mark and the Comma Johanneum, why not also strike the Adultery Pericope because the textual criticism and higher criticism indicates it to be an interpolation? There are nuances and critical editions needed even among ancient translations like the Vulgate, Peshitta and Coptic Bibles, which are often reasoned to provide a snapshot of the fourth century Greek NT. And a lack of Ge’ez, Classical Armenian, Kartvelian and Caucasco-Albanian scholarship hinders attempts at using these manuscripts for purposes of evaluating accuracy, even though these countries became Christian shortly before or around the time of the Edict of Milan.

Watch wrote this: "I just see that earnest seekers after the mind of God need to be careful to not be looking for some more simple way to know God's Word, and miss the eternal truth He has for man by popular religious ideas." That is what I was responding to.

Again, the KJV is over 400 years old! Earnest seekers look for the most accurate translation; the KJV is not accurate by 21st Century standards.

 

[1watchman]

'To each his own', as the saying goes! Many of us want the pure mind of God as given, and not modern ideas and modern reasoning of men today, so will hold to the venerable KJV. Go in peace!