LDS False Gospel Spreader Joseph Smith

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,816
10,795
76
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟833,543.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Why?
(New Testament | Matthew 7:20)

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
So, a true believer is known by his love, joy, peace, kindness, gentleness, goodness, faithfulness, patience and self-control. So are you saying that JS was known for these fruit through his personal conduct and his conduct toward others?
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Act_19:26 Moreover ye see and hear, that not alone at Ephesus, but almost throughout all Asia, this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people, saying that they be no gods, which are made with hands:
Gal_4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

! Cor was talking about the heathen gods and foods offered to them--

1Co 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Christians recognise no other gods but One. This was in no way saying that there are many REAL GODS, just that the heathen have many---there are no gods at all but One.
The 4th verse was about false Gods, but the 5th and 6th verses were not about false Gods.
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
On the surface, the quote from the BOM seems correct, and every word of the quote can be defined correctly from the New Testament. But the problem is that LDS church doctrine defines "works" as following the many commandments prescribed by the church.

The Bible defines "being judged by our works" as walking in the fruit of the Spirit which is love, joy, peace, gentleness, kindness, goodness, patience, faithfulness and self-control. Paul says that against such things there is no Law. This is not following a portfolio of compulsory commandments, but to evaluate our own conduct according to where we are expressing the fruit of the Spirit or not.

But the BOM quote implies that us doing the same works that Jesus did, is following the Law perfectly as Jesus did. But this is not the context of how John defined "works" in this case. John's definition are the healing and deliverance works that Jesus did as part of His presentation of the gospel, and he says that we will do greater works, involving an extension of His miraculous works that He did while on earth. This was achieved when the Holy Spirit filled the disciples on the Day of Pentecost.

Also, the quote from the BOM leaves out the principal reason why Jesus went to the cross and died in our place. The BOM says that Jesus went to the cross and was lifted up so that people would have faith in Him and follow His commandments as He did. This is a major departure from how the New Testament describes the death and resurrection of Christ.
When Jesus was asked who His neighbor was He told the parable of the good Samaritan and at the conclusion said go and do likewise. Jesus also said that if a person knows to do good and does it not, to him it is sin. It is important that we love not only in word only, but in deed also:
(New Testament | James 1:22)

22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
(New Testament | James 4:17)

17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 10:25)

25 Wherefore, may God raise you from death by the power of the resurrection, and also from everlasting death by the power of the atonement, that ye may be received into the eternal kingdom of God, that ye may praise him through grace divine. Amen.
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
So, a true believer is known by his love, joy, peace, kindness, gentleness, goodness, faithfulness, patience and self-control. So are you saying that JS was known for these fruit through his personal conduct and his conduct toward others?
All of those who follow Jesus Christ and keep the commandments of love will be known by their fruits:
(Pearl of Great Price | Articles of Faith 1:13)

13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
 
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
So will a Mormon glorified with (LDS-equal to) Christ be worthy of being worshiped?
Yes, eventually, when we have been given the same power and authority that God the Father gave Jesus to create. So when we create our own children, they will worship us, just like we worship our creator God.

Remember we will be heirs, and joint-heirs with Jesus Christ of all that the Father has. One thing the Father has is creative powers. If we do the will of the Father in all things and we inherit all that he has, we will inherit the power to create. That will be a grand part of our inheritance from God.
Perfect scripture that proves I am right.
Romans 8:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: He is the way
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Act_19:26 Moreover ye see and hear, that not alone at Ephesus, but almost throughout all Asia, this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people, saying that they be no gods, which are made with hands:
Gal_4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

! Cor was talking about the heathen gods and foods offered to them--

1Co 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Christians recognise no other gods but One. This was in no way saying that there are many REAL GODS, just that the heathen have many---there are no gods at all but One.
The Church of Jesus Christ recognizes no other gods but One also.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: He is the way
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Wait minute! Are you saying they believe that the reason Jesus died was to show us how to keep the commandments perfectly as He did----not to die for our sins??? PHOEBE ANN??! IS THIS WHAT YOU WERE TAUGHT?
Jesus absolutely died to save us from our sins. No question about that.

Interesting scripture though that teaches that we must do the will of the Father as shown us by Jesus himself.
Hebrews 5:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered.
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

So Jesus learned to be obedient to the Father and proved it by going all the way to the cross.
In this event on the cross, he was make perfect and was able to become the author of our eternal salvation (now here is the kicker) unto all them that obey him.

So Jesus died on the cross to show his complete obedience to the Fathers will. Because of this complete obedience he was made perfect. And because of this perfection he was able to save us.

But he can only save us, if we go through a similar process as he did. Learn obedience to his will, prove it by living how he would have us live. By living a good life, we too are made perfect, and then we can be saved unto eternal life.

That is a condensed version of how to gain eternal life.


 
  • Agree
Reactions: He is the way
Upvote 0

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,821
73
Las Vegas
✟255,978.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
The 4th verse was about false Gods, but the 5th and 6th verses were not about false Gods.


LOL! Cafeteria scripture reading again! There are no other gods---that was the point he was making.
 
Upvote 0

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,821
73
Las Vegas
✟255,978.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
Jesus absolutely died to save us from our sins. No question about that.

Interesting scripture though that teaches that we must do the will of the Father as shown us by Jesus himself.
Hebrews 5:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered.
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

So Jesus learned to be obedient to the Father and proved it by going all the way to the cross.
In this event on the cross, he was make perfect and was able to become the author of our eternal salvation (now here is the kicker) unto all them that obey him.

So Jesus died on the cross to show his complete obedience to the Fathers will. Because of this complete obedience he was made perfect. And because of this perfection he was able to save us.

But he can only save us, if we go through a similar process as he did. Learn obedience to his will, prove it by living how he would have us live. By living a good life, we too are made perfect, and then we can be saved unto eternal life.

That is a condensed version of how to gain eternal life.



As usual, JS got it backwards. Jesus was perfectly in tune with His Father, that is why He is perfect. He had been God the Son before becoming human. He was already perfect before coming here. He became sin in order to save us. You do not understand the magnitude of that. HE BECAME SIN! HE TOOK ON THE SINS OF THE WORLD, THEY BECAME HIS.

Gal_1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
1Jn_2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

That is why, at the cross, God the Father had to withdraw His presence from Him, making the place dark causing the cry--
Mat_27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Mat_27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Jesus obeyed and was perfect--but at the cross---He was sin! That is what killed Him--the weight of our sins caused the sepration from His Father.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Blade

Veteran
Site Supporter
Dec 29, 2002
8,167
3,992
USA
✟630,797.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You know a verse just came to mind..now know why 'For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him"

Though I do not agree with LDS....but how some treat them on this site....holy Jesus.. as a believer in Jesus Christ and I post on this site.. forgive us please... sorry
 
Upvote 0

tampasteve

Pray for peace in Israel
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Angels Team
CF Senior Ambassador
Site Supporter
May 15, 2017
25,413
7,334
Tampa
✟777,861.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
MOD HAT ON
There has been a Thread Clean. Please remember that the Debate Other Religions forum is intended for orthodox Christians to debate other religions. The stated religion is to respond to a question by a orthodox Christian, this means that Christians respond to LDS in this thread, not Christians responding to other Christians.

Specific Forum Guidelines

  • Only orthodox (Trinitarian) Christian members may start threads to challenge/debate members of a specific non-Christian religion or faith.
  • Debates are only between orthodox Christian members and members of the specific non-Christian religion or faith being challenged.
MOD HAT OFF​
 
Upvote 0

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,529
6,408
Midwest
✟80,125.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
So, Mormons teach that you have to obey their leaders, and their set of commandments, pay ten per cent of your income to their wealthy organization, believe that if the bishop wants you to teach, or play piano, or lead music, he received that request as a revelation from God. Then there are fast offerings once a month because your tithe won't cover that, and separate building funds.
 
Upvote 0

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,816
10,795
76
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟833,543.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
When Jesus was asked who His neighbor was He told the parable of the good Samaritan and at the conclusion said go and do likewise. Jesus also said that if a person knows to do good and does it not, to him it is sin. It is important that we love not only in word only, but in deed also:
(New Testament | James 1:22)

22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
(New Testament | James 4:17)

17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 10:25)

25 Wherefore, may God raise you from death by the power of the resurrection, and also from everlasting death by the power of the atonement, that ye may be received into the eternal kingdom of God, that ye may praise him through grace divine. Amen.
You missed out the quote where Jesus said that all the commandments are summed up in loving God with all our hearts, minds and soul, and loving our neighbour as ourselves.
 
Upvote 0

His student

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2019
1,235
555
78
Northwest
✟48,602.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I agree that the gospel is simple.................
(New Testament | John 14:15 - 21)
If ye love me, keep my commandments.......... He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me:
(New Testament | John 15:10 - 14) Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 5:10)
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
So you're telling us that the gospel is to keep His commandments?

That's very sad.

If I had no other reason to reject Mormonism it would be this.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,816
10,795
76
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟833,543.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Jesus absolutely died to save us from our sins. No question about that.

Interesting scripture though that teaches that we must do the will of the Father as shown us by Jesus himself.
Hebrews 5:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered.
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

So Jesus learned to be obedient to the Father and proved it by going all the way to the cross.
In this event on the cross, he was make perfect and was able to become the author of our eternal salvation (now here is the kicker) unto all them that obey him.

So Jesus died on the cross to show his complete obedience to the Fathers will. Because of this complete obedience he was made perfect. And because of this perfection he was able to save us.

But he can only save us, if we go through a similar process as he did. Learn obedience to his will, prove it by living how he would have us live. By living a good life, we too are made perfect, and then we can be saved unto eternal life.

That is a condensed version of how to gain eternal life.

Oh. That's similar to what the Jewish Pharisees were doing, and Jesus called them hypocrites!
 
Upvote 0

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,816
10,795
76
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟833,543.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
So you're telling us that the gospel is to keep His commandments?

That's very sad.

If I had no other reason to reject Mormonism it would be this.
They miss out important Scriptures like, "This is the will of God, that we believe on Him whom God has sent"; that a person who loves God with all his heart, soul and strength and loves his neighbour as himself is following all the commandments.

Mormons have no trouble about these quotes and they will say they believe them. But the Mormon church has added a whole lot more commandments that are not found in the Bible; like anyone who is not a Mormon is of the devil and is condemned; or those who reject polygamy reject the Mormon faith because "without polygamy, we have no religion"; and to obey the teachings of the Book of Mormon perfectly, even when they contradict the Bible.
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
You missed out the quote where Jesus said that all the commandments are summed up in loving God with all our hearts, minds and soul, and loving our neighbour as ourselves.
All of the commandments are about love, God is love. Those who do not keep the commandments do not know God:
(New Testament | 1 John 2:4)

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Knowing God is life eternal:

(New Testament | John 17:3)

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
So, Mormons teach that you have to obey their leaders, and their set of commandments, pay ten per cent of your income to their wealthy organization, believe that if the bishop wants you to teach, or play piano, or lead music, he received that request as a revelation from God. Then there are fast offerings once a month because your tithe won't cover that, and separate building funds.
Yes, however there is no longer a building fund. We are also to pay into the missionary fund, humanitarian aid, clean the church house, work at welfare square, help feed the homeless, and support other church functions when possible.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
So you're telling us that the gospel is to keep His commandments?

That's very sad.

If I had no other reason to reject Mormonism it would be this.
That is sad because the main topic of the Bible is to keep the commandments. After a person knows the way of righteousness he should not relapse back into sin:
(New Testament | 2 Peter 2:21 - 22)

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
(New Testament | Romans 6:1 - 16)

1 WHAT shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
 
Upvote 0