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Featured LDS False Gospel Spreader Joseph Smith

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Phoebe Ann, Apr 22, 2019.

  1. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    You said: "The term "professors of Christianity" does not refer to College Professors. It is used to describe those who profess Christianity. In other words, members of Christian churches.

    The term "professors of Christianity" refers to your leaders.

    You said: Damned as it was understood in the 19th Century, meant condemned to hell.

    You should check out the meaning in the 19th century dictionary. HERE IS ONE FROM 1828:

    DAM, verb transitive

    1. To make a dam or to stop a stream of water by a bank of earth, or by any other work; to confine or shut in water. It is common to use, after the verb, in, up, or out; as, to dam in, or to dam up, the water, and to damout is to prevent water from entering.

    2. To confine or restrain from escaping; to shut in.

    You said: As you said, there are only two churches - the church of the Lamb of God and the church of the devil. If all the other sects (Christian churches) are wrong, then they must not be of the church of the Lamb of God, so they must be churches of the devil.

    Have you read the story of the wheat and the tares?:

    (New Testament | Matthew 13:25 - 30)

    25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
    26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
    27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
    28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
    29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
    30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

    Tares and wheat are growing together in every church, but they will be sorted out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
  2. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    I am glad that you know Him. That means that you are keeping the commandments:
    (New Testament | 1 John 2:4)

    4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
     
  3. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    It could very well mean that it is lost scripture.
     
  4. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Those the bible mentions are dealing with Jewish history---the deeds of some kings mostly.
     
  5. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    So you have read them then?
     
  6. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Now you're being silly. They're missing! They are mentioned in the bible usually under "and the rest of the acts of such and such, are they not recorded in-----?" So they seem to be just stuff about what some individual did. Didn't seem to bother Jesus nor the disciples any.
     
  7. Ironhold

    Ironhold Member

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    :hahaha:

    The Bible as we know it wasn't assembled until well after Jesus and most of the apostles were long gone.

    Jesus would have had the majority of the Old Testament, plus possibly some of the missing works and maybe even bits of the Apocrypha. Then for the first century or so, it would have been these works plus whatever letters were in circulation until the Gospel writers started to work.
     
  8. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    One thing is for sure and that is that we don't know what is missing from the Bible.
     
  9. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Silly boy, don't get your feather ruffled---I was talking about the OT--I know the new one was not written until about 70 years later. But the letters were written to the churches and the churches had them long before the NT was assembled.
    If Jesus had any of the missing OT, it is doubtful. The OT has been in it's present form since right after the Babylonian exile.
     
  10. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    They won't contain anything that would agree with your teachings---that I do know!
     
  11. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    You can't possibly know that. Your opinion has been noted.
     
  12. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    That may be the Mormon definition of the word, but it is certainly not the Evangelical meaning. To "profess" Christianity means to state that one is Christian and believes the Bible. This applies to every Christian believer and not for anyone in an "exalted" position in the church. In fact, having "leaders" who have the preeminence over the ordinary members is anti-Biblical. The New Testament recognises elders and bishops (as you do) to ensure that the church is run decently and in order. But the term "Professor" is not found there as a leadership role in the church.

    Of course, I am not talking about our different denominational organisations that have people in exalted positions thinking they are somehow superior to the common "herd". But Jesus said that a church leader was to be "the servant of all".

    This is often shown in communist China when the authorities want to close a Christian church down they come looking for the pastor. But they can't find him because his appearance is no different from the ordinary people in his church. If we was an exalted leader with fancy robes, etc, they would have no trouble getting hold of him. This is also why in warfare, many officers don't wear their insignia of rank because if the enemy snipers could pick them off, the troops would be leaderless and confused.

    A good church in my view would be a loving, supportive group of people who meet together to worship God, hear the Word preached, have fellowship; and where you wouldn't know who were the elders and who were just the ordinary people.
     
  13. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    I know what the texts say about them---you can see the list in Wiki--
    1 Samuel 10:25–10:25
    25Samuel told the people the rights and duties of the kingship; and he wrote them in a book and laid it up before the Lord. Then Samuel sent all the people back to their homes.

    Joshua 10:13–10:13
    13And the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stopped in mid-heaven, and did not hurry to set for about a whole day.
    Numbers 21:14–21:14
    14Wherefore it is said in the Book of the Wars of the Lord, “Waheb in Suphah and the wadis. The Arnon
    2 Chronicles 9:29–9:29
    29Now the rest of the acts of Solomon, from first to last, are they not written in the history of the prophet Nathan, and in the prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite, and in the visions of the seer Iddo concerning Jeroboam son of Nebat?
    1 Kings 14:19–14:19
    19Now the rest of the acts of Jeroboam, how he warred and how he reigned, are written in the Book of
    1 Chronicles 27:24–27:24
    24Joab son of Zeruiah began to count them, but did not finish; yet wrath came upon Israel for this, and the number was not entered into the account of the Annals of King David.

    the
    1 Chronicles 29:29–29:29
    29Now the acts of King David, from first to last, are written in the records of the seer Samuel, and in the records of the prophet Nathan, and in the records of the seer Gad,

    Annals of the Kings of Israel.

    There is more---you can look for yourself---doesn't sound like anything all that earth shattering. I know you worship a very ineffectual God--but really---to actually think that He would allow anything pertaining to our salvation to be lost is beyond ineffectual. Our God is all powerful and has kept what is important to our salvation in His word.
     
  14. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Isaiah 40
    8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

    2 Timothy 3:16
    All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    It's rather obvious that because God gave His Son for us, He's also going to instruct us in righteousness! He wants us to walk as children of light.
     
  15. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Blue Ribbon.png
     
  16. Ironhold

    Ironhold Member

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    Nope.

    [note: long]

    If you look at historical pictures and images of military officers, you'll see that the higher the rank, the gaudier they tended to dress.

    This is because in the days before modern communications systems were put in place, officers and non-commissioned officers had to use sight and sound in order to control their soldiers and send orders. This meant, among other things, that the leaders had to be distinctly visible; their soldiers had to be able to tell at a glance who was in charge.

    It's also why flags were such a big deal (the flag-bearer would go at the head of the formation to indicate a charge or a retreat) and why units had musicians accompanying them (each song the musician played had meaning, from boosting morale to signaling maneuvers).

    Yes, at least as far back as the American Revolution, people began to figure out that sending snipers after the officers was a rather easy tactic because of how gaudy they tended to be; an entire unit of American irregulars specialized in sniping commanders. Virtually all organized military units the world over had the mentality of "the officers give the orders, the non-comms ensure that the orders are carried out, and the enlisted do or die", so sniping officers was a good way to disable an entire unit.

    The smarter, more modern militaries have indeed abandoned gaudy combat uniforms for officers, relegating that to attire worn for administrative and formal duties. But this doesn't make them sniper-proof. For example, back in Vietnam it was common practice for the soldier who had the field-portable communications kit to stand next to the commander of whatever unit they were with. This backpack had a clearly visible antenna that stuck up into the air, and so in time snipers learned that if they saw the pack they were to shoot at whoever the person wearing the pack was standing next to.

    As it is, the *most* advanced, most modern militaries have moved to individualize their forces. Each person is made aware of what the overall task is, meaning that even the lowliest of privates can, if separated from their unit, complete their assigned tasks; at that point, they know to use their best judgement on what to do next. Even as far back as WWII, for example, one can find stories of American soldiers continuing their missions under averse conditions, including one guy who ended up fighting as part of a *Russian* unit for some time after being trapped behind the lines.

    ...Which is, believe it or not, how we operate as well. Because all male members of the church 12 and up are to have the priesthood if possible, and everyone with the priesthood is instructed on what their abilities and roles are - with the scriptures themselves spelling that out - individual congregations can continue to function even if the bishop is out of the picture for some reason.

    Just in my personal experience, there was at least one Sunday where the entire bishopric was not at church (the branch mission leader conducted services) and another where the entire bishopric left after sacrament meeting to attend a regional meeting (Sunday school ran so smoothly that half the people there didn't even realize what had happened; the instructors took charge and gave the lessons as scheduled).

    Aside from where they sit and how people behave around them, you likely wouldn't be able to tell the average local leader either. Most of them are in suit and tie, or at least whatever the best they have is. More often than you might realize, the local leader is someone who you might not even expect to be in charge, someone who mainstream Christian congregations might even reject because of appearance alone or some other comparatively petty issue.

    For example, the minister over the branch I go to walks with crutches due to a medical issue, and a stake-level official has a thick accent.
     
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  17. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    This is not proof. I know that the lost books could contain scripture, especially those written by prophets such as the records of the prophet Nathan.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
  18. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Yes we know where they are mentioned, but we do not have the records of the seer Gad, the records of the seer Samuel, the records of the prophet Nathan, etc. And you do not know what is contained therein.
     
  19. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    No, we don't know for sure. However--as I pointed out with those scriptures about the missing books---they tell what the books are about, and most of them say they are the exploits of the kings. Really, how important is it to our salvation to know every detail of everything the kings did? What we have is enough for our salvation and that is the only thing that matters. As I said--our God did not allow anything that was important to our salvation to be lost. Sorry, but your God can't seem to do much. Jesus and the disciples only had the OT and as the Dead Sea Scrolls testify, it is the same one we have today.

    2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    God has not allowed anyone to destroy His word and thereby cause us to loose our salvation---The whole purpose for the death of Jesus is to save us from the curse of sin. If He allowed His word to be lost and thereby us also---He would be a very weak God indeed and the death of Jesus would have been useless.

    Isa_55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

    No man can destroy the word of God--His word is power. Even the elements obey His voice, it is the creative force that can create from nothing. We serve a powerful God., not some namby pamby weakling that can't even produce children made of His same substance. Ours did---and He didn't need wives to do it.
     
  20. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    You said: "No man can destroy the word of God--His word is power. Even the elements obey His voice, it is the creative force that can create from nothing. We serve a powerful God., not some namby pamby weakling that can't even produce children made of His same substance. Ours did---and He didn't need wives to do it."

    The Bible does not say God created the universe out of nothing. Rather it says:
    (Old Testament | Proverbs 26:10)

    10 The great God that formed all things both rewardeth the fool, and rewardeth transgressors.

    Neither did God create man out of nothing:

    (Old Testament | Genesis 1:27)

    27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
    (Old Testament | Genesis 2:7)

    7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    So what is His substance? Tell me if you know. What does the creed say?:

    Very God of very God,
    Begotten, not made,
    Being of one substance with the Father,
    By whom all things were made;

    What does the Bible say:
    (New Testament | Luke 24:39 - 40)

    39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
    40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

    Therefore the Father and the Son both have flesh and bones.
     
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