Fallen away from Church, and Christian faith.

[Cis.jd]

I stopped going to church and haven't been in a church for a year already. All of them are because of the same reasons. I have to be honest as well that the more I am exposed to christians the more my faith weakens. Not to be mean but most of the people I've seen in this forum also makes it hard to believe in Christianity mainly due to their views that deals with the afterlife and who ends up going to hell. Many also just have a huge prejudice towards questions that use real life examples or logical/analytic references that if you contain an example it is either ignored or the poster will tell you to make a bible interpretation. It has to be Bible interpretation vs Bible interpretation only, no use of any academics or logical examples.

IMO, sometimes it's just best to stay away from christians and just have a relationship with God based on your own life.

 

[bèlla]

IMO, sometimes it's just best to stay away from christians and just have a relationship with God based on your own life.

I don't believe the behavior you've encountered on the forum is representative of most Christians. You are engaging with a segment of Christianity whose interest in the subject is to a degree they're willing to discuss it in their free time. Some topics attract heated discussions and certain personalities and others don't.

My sewing forum is pleasant but they make pointed comments about thin women at times that I don't agree with. I've been on other sites with so many SJW's my brain nearly combusted. And others that were so group think oriented it started to feel like a cult.

Nevertheless, a questionable character on the Internet won't dim my faith. ;-)

 

[Cis.jd]

I don't believe the behavior you've encountered on the forum is representative of most Christians. You are engaging with a segment of Christianity whose interest in the subject is to a degree they're willing to discuss it in their free time. Some topics attract heated discussions and certain personalities and others don't.

My sewing forum is pleasant but they make pointed comments about thin women at times that I don't agree with. I've been on other sites with so many SJW's my brain nearly combusted. And others that were so group think oriented it started to feel like a cult.

Nevertheless, a questionable character on the Internet won't dim my faith. ;-)

Browse around more. I can recommend you some stuff to look at. You'll see stuff such as "retards are going to hell" and if you disagree your response is "you don't know christ..." and whatever scriptural interpretation game they are going to throw.

 

[Norman70]

I am going to say something, Steve, which is rather different to what most posters here are advising. The main point, however, and ìt has been posted above, is that you must address your relationship with God. Go over in your mind, or close fellowship with others (I have more to say with whom), or perhaps in prayer if you feel you want to, about your lifelong spiritual development. Your thoughts of agnosticism are common to all Christians as they mature.
My wife and myself do not attend regularly any church. She is a retired psychiatric nurse and does not believe you have any further mental health issues. You are obviously holding down a full-time job and there you can develop fellowship with chosen colileagues, pursue common interests or hobbies with anyone you meet anywhere, and voluntary work is also good but does not have to be with a church.
There is nothing wrong with you, we are all different, the problem is with the churches. If you are not comfortable with them, stay away at least for the time being. If they have any love God will send someone to you who will not proselytise, but will listen to you.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Hi there,
A brief bio. first. I became a Christian in 1986, but in 1987-1989, I developed a mental illness, which had a devastating effect on my life. Since then I have found it difficult to relate to people. I flip-flop between Christianity and agnosticism. Going to church a few weeks, usually finding within those weeks that people at church and myself just don't get on. In fact I get on better with people with whom I work. Then I fall away again. What do you think I should do? All I want is to be accepted as a member of the Christian family, and get on with people, but this has not been my experience. I want to be a Christian, but the church side of things is putting me off.

Love in christ

Steve C.

Your focus is in the wrong place. It should not be on you and your feelings. Just honor God and go worship Him. He will work the rest out.

 

[bèlla]

Browse around more. I can recommend you some stuff to look at. You'll see stuff such as "retards are going to hell" and if you disagree your response is "you don't know christ..." and whatever scriptural interpretation game they are going to throw.

I've been on secular sites and their comments were worse. The choice to participate in the thread is mine. If I engage with silliness I can't expect a polite response. It's a question of time investment and whether you're the kind of person who loves to debate. Some people do. I've watched people make inflammatory remarks and laugh about it in private. I don't take it serious.

Nor do I expect "Internet Christians" to behave differently from the secular people I encountered elsewhere. No one validates what you say when you join. Anyone can click a box and call themselves this or that. Stranger things have happened. Anonymity brings out all types. I used to chat years ago and it was equally ridiculous. It's the nature of the beast.

 

[Foxfyre]

Hi there,
A brief bio. first. I became a Christian in 1986, but in 1987-1989, I developed a mental illness, which had a devastating effect on my life. Since then I have found it difficult to relate to people. I flip-flop between Christianity and agnosticism. Going to church a few weeks, usually finding within those weeks that people at church and myself just don't get on. In fact I get on better with people with whom I work. Then I fall away again. What do you think I should do? All I want is to be accepted as a member of the Christian family, and get on with people, but this has not been my experience. I want to be a Christian, but the church side of things is putting me off.

Love in christ

Steve C.

I may not be picking up on your main concern here, so please forgive me if I am totally misunderstanding you.

Doubts are not fatal or even unusual when it comes to our relationship with God, most especially during certain times in our lives. Just keep repeating the prayer sincerely: Lord I believe but help me with my disbelief. Do not attempt to put any expectations on how or when He will respond, but He will respond.

And our Christianity does not depend on the formal church or the people in it. It is our relationship with the living Christ/God. I would be the first to say that too often the way people do 'church' and/or behave, speak, relate to others can be a hindrance rather than a help in our faith and our relationship with God. But our relationship does not depend on that and them. Accept your relationship with the Christ and then find the church that feels right, i.e. the place you belong. Being with other Christians who reinforce instead of tear down your faith is a very good thing and the Christ wants us to have that. Might take awhile to find it so don't get discouraged.

 

[Cis.jd]

I've been on secular sites and their comments were worse. The choice to participate in the thread is mine. If I engage with silliness I can't expect a polite response. It's a question of time investment and whether you're the kind of person who loves to debate. Some people do. I've watched people make inflammatory remarks and laugh about it in private. I don't take it serious.

Nor do I expect "Internet Christians" to behave differently from the secular people I encountered elsewhere. No one validates what you say when you join. Anyone can click a box and call themselves this or that. Stranger things have happened. Anonymity brings out all types. I used to chat years ago and it was equally ridiculous. It's the nature of the beast.

Problem is that christians here really do believe their views are due to divine enlightenment. I'm sorry, i've been to secular sites but none of it comes close to the nature of comments i've seen here. The only difference is the profanity but the content and over all belief of: Nazi's going to heaven over a Jew they murdered, Calculus needing evidence, it being a sin for a man to have long hair, and people with special needs not having an excuse to not go to hell is the signal 5.

 

[aiki]

Correct me if I'm wrong... but you are saying they have never been true for me. Isn't salvation based on grace by faith.

Is it? Will just any sort of faith do when it comes to being saved? What about repentance? Where or how did it figure into your conversion?

Are you saying that if my faith disappears for a season, then I have never had faith.

Is this the sort of faith the Bible says saves a person? Where does the faith a person exerts in Christ come from?

Does it say in the bible that you will permanently have the things you mentioned?

Well, on what basis is a person saved, exactly? Why does God accept a wicked sinner into His family? How is it possible that He should? How you answer these questions makes a huge difference to what you'll understand of the permanency of your salvation.

So, what did I have at the time, when all these things seemed to apply?

Did they apply? I gave you the list of criteria by which to discern if one is truly saved, but I wonder, if you'd had to generate it yourself, if you could have. If not, that, too, would be suggestive of the genuineness of your salvation.

 

[Blade]

Ask Him... talk to Him.. Christ about what you want. Two things.. my wife had started a job and didnt know anyone.. no friends.. so we prayed.. He would send her friends.. and Christian friends.. AND HE DID! The other is.. we had moved to Colorado.. I was just talking to the lord about how in CALF a pastor was going door to door.. YEAH dont see that any more.. at least I dont.

He came to our door said my name had crossed his desk.. anyway. I told the lord.. and didnt expect anything.. said..remember when that pastor came to our door in Calf? We dont know where to go here.. be nice if you did that again. About a week later at night we get this knock on the door. Older man was looking for someone else.. I said.. I think you have the wrong house. He said sorry and turned to walk away ...stopped. I heard him say "No.. God would not have me to go the wrong house with out a reason" comes back...hands me a card and.. he was a pastor.. a Church that believed.. preached the word...

See the key is ... to know HE LOVES YOU! He is FOR YOU. He is FOR the Church.. He gave you things to help others.. and gave others things to help YOU! Know He hears you.. the word says it SO many times that HE hears you. Know when you pray.. He IS working on it. He will open the doors.. help you make friends.. YOUR DAD ABBA is GOD!

 

[bèlla]

Problem is that christians here really do believe their views are due to divine enlightenment. I'm sorry, i've been to secular sites but none of it comes close to the nature of comments i've seen here. The only difference is the profanity but the content and over all belief of: Nazi's going to heaven over a Jew they murdered, Calculus needing evidence, it being a sin for a man to have long hair, and people with special needs not having an excuse to not go to hell is the signal 5.

How does that concern you? Do you believe the Holy Spirit is leading you to tell them otherwise? Sometimes the best thing we can do is pray and allow the Lord to move in the situation.

But even so, why is your faith impacted? That speaks of some measure of expectation in my opinion and I've seen that up close. It always leads to disappointment.

I'm not offended by differences of opinion. What I find intolerable is a lack of courtesy. I don't engage in threads where that's commonplace. Problem solved.

 

[Cis.jd]

How does that concern you? Do you believe the Holy Spirit is leading you to tell them otherwise? Sometimes the best thing we can do is pray and allow the Lord to move in the situation.

But even so, why is your faith impacted? That speaks of some measure of expectation in my opinion and I've seen that up close. It always leads to disappointment.

I'm not offended by differences of opinion. What I find intolerable is a lack of courtesy. I don't engage in threads where that's commonplace. Problem solved.

I do, but they do as well. It's impactful to faith because we all know that we get these views from the same source - the Bible and both sides feel that God is on their side. I find it rather irritating how they think that logic and reason are opponents of God and whenever you try to show how illogical and lunatic like their views are, the response is merely about you "judging God with a finite mind" or how you need to pray to Yahweh to enlighten me. This is just 1 poster or 5 posters, this a number of believers here.

Right... so thinking it is wrong/evil for people who are mentally disabled to believe in God are condemned to burn for all eternity means that the Holy Spirit isn't working in me.

One of the main debates believers and non believers have is the subject of Morality. God being the source of it. You have devout/bible thumpers who believe sending "retards" and Jews who died in the holocaust to hell is righteous, so that does send me to consider taking back every argument i made against an atheist about Morality and God.

here read a sample:

Any human who denies Christ as the messiah..will not receive eternal life... No matter if they die in their sleep, died killing an evil Nazi, died helping Miss Daisy walk across the street. Or, died in the holocaust.

 

[bèlla]

I do, but they do as well. It's impactful to faith because we all know that we get these views from the same source - the Bible and both sides feel that God is on their side.

Two people can read the same story and arrive at a different interpretation. Much like they can hear the same sermon and repeat it very differently. The reasons for the varied opinion is simple. It's falling on various ears with different life experiences, biases, and ideals that are impacting the message. Their reading it through their lens.

I find it rather irritating how they think that logic and reason are opponents of God and whenever you try to show how illogical and lunatic like their views are, the response is merely about you "judging God with a finite mind" or how you need to pray to Yahweh to enlighten me. This is just 1 poster or 5 posters, this a number of believers here.

I don't do that. Why is it necessary for you to do it? What are you getting out of the discussions?

One of the main debates believers and non believers have is the subject of Morality. God being the source of it. You have devout/bible thumpers who believe sending "retards" and Jews who died in the holocaust to hell is righteous, so that does send me to consider taking back every argument i made against an atheist about Morality and God.

I don't listen to them. You have radicals in every group. They're easy to avoid on the Internet. And I wouldn't keep company with them in person.

I'm of the belief that it is better for a person to show themselves than hide behind a mask. I give many opportunities to do so. And I'm the observing them the whole time. That's how I keep my life drama free.

Is it possible that your desire to correct them is feeding this in some way? I had someone tell me the other day he had to hate liberals and their children for supporting abortion. I didn't dignify that with a response. There's no point. We'd never agree.

 

[FatalFantasy]

Hi there,
A brief bio. first. I became a Christian in 1986, but in 1987-1989, I developed a mental illness, which had a devastating effect on my life. Since then I have found it difficult to relate to people. I flip-flop between Christianity and agnosticism. Going to church a few weeks, usually finding within those weeks that people at church and myself just don't get on. In fact I get on better with people with whom I work. Then I fall away again. What do you think I should do? All I want is to be accepted as a member of the Christian family, and get on with people, but this has not been my experience. I want to be a Christian, but the church side of things is putting me off.

Love in christ

Steve C.

If I told you what you should do, you'd be living out my decisions not yours. I am sure you can figure out what to do for yourself

 

[Norman70]

To add a further comment to my earlier post, my wife and myself have given up looking for a suitable church. We focus on our spiritual development, we pray to God, we study the Bible, and enjoy spiritual artistic movements (not sermons!). CF is OK too.
We think you would be wasting a lot of time looking for a church. Focus on your social life and share your spiritual thoughts there when comfortable. God will then move in to help. He does not demand that you attend an established church. Where two or more are gathered in the name of Jesus, He too is present.

 

[Norman70]

@FatalFantasy. I do not think it is the correct Christian response to tell someone to sort out their concerns on their own. We are social beings and we need to share our concerns. Then, with prayers to God, we decide, and we must decide because we cannot leave it all to God. We have to play our part.

 

[Oldmantook]

They are fragile, for one thing, and tend to come and go, organize and then disband.

Nothing wrong with disbanding. In fact, it's ideal as those who are discipled in the house church setting should then disband and form their own house churches after becoming mature believers who then go on to disciple others. That is how disciples are multiplied. A far cry from the pervasive spectator church service today.

They are DIY by nature and usually are led by laymen who are not trained. Services tend to be more like what you'd find in a Bible study group of any denomination.

So now one has to be formally trained to lead a group of others? Training by whose standard? Bible college, seminary required?
As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him. 1 Jn 2:27

There is just no telling what the doctrinal perspective at any one of these house churches is going to be. Often, that's just fudged over.

That is precisely why it is incumbent upon each believer to read and study Scripture for himself/herself whether it be a house church or the church building to determine if what is taught there conforms with Scripture.

They tend to be TOO small. You want not to be overwhelmed by the church experience but the opposite of that isn't necessarily better.

So bigger is better? Are not relationships better formed in smaller groups? How small is too small? And why is it too small? How about a group of twelve? Too big? Too small? Jesus chose 12 to disciple. Is God present where two or three are gathered? You speak in generalities which have no substance as far as I can tell.

 

[FatalFantasy]

@FatalFantasy. I do not think it is the correct Christian response to tell someone to sort out their concerns on their own. We are social beings and we need to share our concerns. Then, with prayers to God, we decide, and we must decide because we cannot leave it all to God. We have to play our part.

Perhaps.

 

[AllThingsWorkForGood]

This answer will probably be seen as controversial for some reason, but I think people put far too much emphasis on church. It seems to be a purely cultural thing and we are indoctrinated to believe that you cannot be a Christian unless you go to a building called a church every Sunday. This is absolute nonsense and is a massive lie that has probably done more to encourage the widespread existence of nominal Christians than anything else.

The Church is supposed to exist for our edification as Christians and if a church is not edifying you then it's probably much better that you don't go until you find a church where you do actually get proper and true teaching with real believers. Unfortunately that's a tiny minority, here in the UK anyway, where about 95% of churches consist of elderly folk who just attend for the tea, comfort and routine.

Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit but I really cannot stand this false but widespread correlation between faith and churchgoing. Attending a church does not make you a Christian! You become a Christian because you choose, as an adult, to repent of living in sin and decide to follow Jesus Christ. That is the definition of a Christian - a follower of Jesus.

What you need to do is ensure that you, in yourself, are strong in God and that your faith in God can exist apart from your human need to attend a social club every weekend.

What about the persecuted Christians? How do they survive when they cannot attend 'church'? Because their faith exists apart from the idea of institutionalised religious affiliation. In fact, most persecuted Christians would recognise 'church' in the sense that it existed in Christ's day - as a body of true believers.

What you need is to nurture your personal relationship with Christ by studying the Word and becoming spiritually strong so that you are not swayed in your faith. As long as you have a few, even one or two, real Christians that you can meet from time to time for prayer and fellowship, or even just a phone call then surely that is enough when your faith is intrinsic?

Don't worry about not finding a church. Keep looking when you can but please do not panic about it. People are indoctrinated to put too much emphasis on 'belonging' to a church, but God should be your ultimate source of satisfaction and your relationship with Christ before and above everything.

Think of it this way - what would you do if suddenly your country was overtaken by an evil government regime that outlawed all church meetings?

Would faith still be in your heart? Would you still love and think about God? Would you still pray? Would you still want to read Jesus' words?

If the answer is no then you have a problem. If the answer is yes then what are you worried about?

 

[FatalFantasy]

This answer will probably be seen as controversial for some reason, but I think people put far too much emphasis on church. It seems to be a purely cultural thing and we are indoctrinated to believe that you cannot be a Christian unless you go to a building called a church every Sunday. This is absolute nonsense and is a massive lie that has probably done more to encourage the widespread existence of nominal Christians than anything else.

The Church is supposed to exist for our edification as Christians and if a church is not edifying you then it's probably much better that you don't go until you find a church where you do actually get proper and true teaching with real believers. Unfortunately that's a tiny minority, here in the UK anyway, where about 95% of churches consist of elderly folk who just attend for the tea, comfort and routine.

Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit but I really cannot stand this false but widespread correlation between faith and churchgoing. Attending a church does not make you a Christian! You become a Christian because you choose, as an adult, to repent of living in sin and decide to follow Jesus Christ. That is the definition of a Christian - a follower of Jesus.

What you need to do is ensure that you, in yourself, are strong in God and that your faith in God can exist apart from your human need to attend a social club every weekend.

What about the persecuted Christians? How do they survive when they cannot attend 'church'? Because their faith exists apart from the idea of institutionalised religious affiliation. In fact, most persecuted Christians would recognise 'church' in the sense that it existed in Christ's day - as a body of true believers.

What you need is to nurture your personal relationship with Christ by studying the Word and becoming spiritually strong so that you are not swayed in your faith. As long as you have a few, even one or two, real Christians that you can meet from time to time for prayer and fellowship, or even just a phone call then surely that is enough when your faith is intrinsic?

Don't worry about not finding a church. Keep looking when you can but please do not panic about it. People are indoctrinated to put too much emphasis on 'belonging' to a church, but God should be your ultimate source of satisfaction and your relationship with Christ before and above everything.

Think of it this way - what would you do if suddenly your country was overtaken by an evil government regime that outlawed all church meetings?

Would faith still be in your heart? Would you still love and think about God? Would you still pray? Would you still want to read Jesus' words?

If the answer is no then you have a problem. If the answer is yes then what are you worried about?

Excellently said.