Faith.

[Hammster]

As for religious faith, for the reasonable person, it's unnecessary, and I don't consider it a virtue.

If it's a gift, then it's not a virtue. So we can agree on that.

 

[HitchSlap]

It's not an extraordinary claim.

Then it shouldn't take extraordinary evidence.

Have at it.

 

[HitchSlap]

If it's a gift, then it's not a virtue. So we can agree on that.

Where did I ever say faith was a gift?

 

[Hammster]

Then it shouldn't take extraordinary evidence.

Have at it.

Have at what?

 

[Hammster]

Where did I ever say faith was a gift?

You didn't. You said it wasn't a virtue. I agreed with that and gave my reason.

 

[HitchSlap]

You didn't. You said it wasn't a virtue. I agreed with that and gave my reason.

Yes, we can agree faith is not a virtue.

 

[cloudyday2]

My doctor has never mentioned any of this. I actually will be seeing him today, so I guess I can ask. I am worried that a treatment that is efficacious for depression might drive me into mania, since part of my illness is bipolar.

Apparently scopolamine and ketamine affect different neurotransmitters, so they are less likely to cause mania for bipolar people - at least that was how I understood one of the articles that I read, but I am just a layperson. The ketamine is an IV infusion every two weeks. The bipolar person who was describing the treatment said it made her feel a little bit loopy afterwards, but it helped her. Hopefully they can find some ways to make you feel better.

 

[cloudyday2]

I consider myself an agnostic atheist. Pure atheism is just as logically untenable as pure theism, as far as I'm concerned. To claim to know that there is no God(s) is fallacious. I think everyone here, regardless of belief or lack thereof, would agree to that. Pure atheism is folly.

If a person can falsify a particular definition of God (via philosophical proof or historical evidence for example), then that person might reasonably claim to be a gnostic atheist with respect to that particular definition of God. What makes gnostic atheism difficult is the variety of definitions of God. If I'm not mistaken, in some cases the theologians do not claim to know anything true about God - only things that are false about God. (I think that might be an Eastern Orthodox approach?) Of course there are many different denominations, and each parishioner within a denomination has slightly different ideas about God.

 

[anonymous person]

No man comes to Christ the Savior unless they first be made aware of their sinfulness and need of salvation.

No man comes to Christ the Lord unless they first be made aware of His exalted majesty.

Neither philosophical arguments nor the adding up of evidence can cause one to be made aware of their sinfulness and need of salvation. Nor can they cause one to be made aware of Christ's exalted majesty.

One must have a vision of God in the soul. This is solely a work of God. If God had not revealed Himself to Isaiah, then Isaiah would not have been able to say, "I saw the Lord high and lifted up." He could have read all the books ever written cover to cover, examined all the arguments for the existence of God, and added up all the evidence one could gather and he still would have been in the dark about his own wretched state and God's exalted majesty.

 

[HitchSlap]

No man comes to Christ the Savior unless they first be made aware of their sinfulness and need of salvation.

No man comes to Christ the Lord unless they first be made aware of His exalted majesty.

Neither philosophical arguments nor the adding up of evidence can cause one to be made aware of their sinfulness and need of salvation. Nor can they cause one to be made aware of Christ's exalted majesty.

One must have a vision of God in the soul. This is solely a work of God. If God had not revealed Himself to Isaiah, then Isaiah would not have been able to say, "I saw the Lord high and lifted up." He could have read all the books ever written cover to cover, examined all the arguments for the existence of God, and added up all the evidence one could gather and he still would have been in the dark about his own wretched state and God's exalted majesty.

"Yeah, well, that's like, your opinion, man."

 

[bhsmte]

"Yeah, well, that's like, your opinion, man."

The Dude abides.

 

[anonymous person]

"Yeah, well, that's like, your opinion, man."

It's a fact.

 

[bhsmte]

Does anyone see any verifiable facts?

I don't.

 

[anonymous person]

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:44

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

 

[bhsmte]

In absence of said facts, just preach.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Demonstrate and independently verify that facts are demonstrable and independently verifiable.

 

[SeraphimSarov]

If I'm not mistaken, in some cases the theologians do not claim to know anything true about God - only things that are false about God. (I think that might be an Eastern Orthodox approach?)

Ermh, sorta. You're thinking of apophatic theology. The other distinction is that God is knowable only in his energies (what he does), not his essence (who he is). A god which is comprehensible in the human mind is not God. Or so they say.

 

[SeraphimSarov]

ne must have a vision of God in the soul. This is solely a work of God. If God had not revealed Himself to Isaiah, then Isaiah would not have been able to say, "I saw the Lord high and lifted up." He could have read all the books ever written cover to cover, examined all the arguments for the existence of God, and added up all the evidence one could gather and he still would have been in the dark about his own wretched state and God's exalted majesty.

So what of people to whom God does not reveal himself?

 

[dcalling]

Who said it creates intelligence "out of random"? That doesn't make sense.

If intelligence is not created out of random, then how is it created? Do you believe in creation?

 

[anonymous person]

So what of people to whom God does not reveal himself?

They neither know their wretchedness nor the majesty of the Lord of Hosts.