Faith.

[SeraphimSarov]

How did we attain the truth behind the axiom that a fact need be demonstrable and independently verifiable?

Please read the Wikipedia article I posted. You don't seem to understand what an axiom is.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Because they are. How did we attain the truth that water is wet?

How do we know that facts are demonstrable and independently verifiable? We know water is wet because we feel it and by touch we know it is wet. How do you know that facts must be demonstrable and independently verifiable?

 

[dcalling]

I've actually hinted at this before, so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove.

So you agree with me nothing we observed is real certain all the way

Then isn't atheism also a leap of faith?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Please read the Wikipedia article I posted. You don't seem to understand what an axiom is.

I understand it. I am asking you how this is a self-evident truth?

 

[SeraphimSarov]

So you agree with me nothing we observed is real certain all the way

Then isn't atheism also a leap of faith?

I have stated that I'm an agnostic atheist. Gnostic atheism is indeed a leap of faith, one which I am not willing to make.

 

[SeraphimSarov]

I understand it. I am asking you how this is a self-evident truth?

If it is explainable by other means, it ceases to be axiomatic.

 

[dcalling]

I have stated that I'm an agnostic atheist. Gnostic atheism is indeed a leap of faith, one which I am not willing to make.

in that case, what steam you toward atheist side of agnostic?

 

[SeraphimSarov]

in that case, what steam you toward atheist side of agnostic?

There simply does not appear to be any entity in the known universe matching the description of the general conception of God(s).

 

[HitchSlap]

How do we know that facts are demonstrable and independently verifiable? We know water is wet because we feel it and by touch we know it is wet. How do you know that facts must be demonstrable and independently verifiable?

Because they'd cease being facts.

 

[dcalling]

There simply does not appear to be any entity in the known universe matching the description of the general conception of God(s).

how did you get to that conclusion? Did you weight both side of the evidences? What's the general conception of God?

 

[dcalling]

Because they'd cease being facts.

Do you think Evolution is demonstrable and independently verifiable?

 

[SeraphimSarov]

how did you get to that conclusion?

My own research and experience.

Did you weight both side of the evidences?

It does not appear that you've read the entire thread; I believe I've more than covered this.

What's the general conception of God?

In North American culture, the God described in the Bible. If you point to the fact that thousands upon thousands of denominations dispute exactly who the God of the Bible is, I will simply point out that your own text asserts that God is not the author of confusion, thus indicating that there is internal conflict within Christianity itself.

 

[SeraphimSarov]

Do you think Evolution is demonstrable and independently verifiable?

This wasn't addressed to me, but I should point out that "evolution" is such a broadly imprecise term that any attempt at answering would be an exercise in futility.

 

[HitchSlap]

Do you think Evolution is demonstrable and independently verifiable?

Of course it is. There's more evidence for the ToE than there is for gravity.

 

[bhsmte]

As a native Chicago witness of the Bulls dynasty, this disturbs me.

Me too.

 

[bhsmte]

Do you think Evolution is demonstrable and independently verifiable?

If it wasn't, how has the theory only gotten stronger, after 150+ years?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

natural process is random, if no body is designing it, it is all random, they just need to follow laws of physics, but everything else is random. You are just siting there and let nature push those chemicals around.

Ummm... no, natural processes aren't necessarily random. I thought you said you studied evolution?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

How do we know that facts are demonstrable and independently verifiable?

How do you know a bachelor is an unmarried man?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

So you agree with me nothing we observed is real certain all the way

Then isn't atheism also a leap of faith?

No faith is required to reject unfounded claims.

 

[SeraphimSarov]

Ummm... no, natural processes aren't necessarily random. I thought you said you studied evolution?

It could be argued that if all systems are ordered, absolutely nothing is random, and everything is calculable and predictable, if only we knew the intricacies of how the universe functions. Of course, there is absolutely no way to show that all systems are ordered, so this is mere conjecture. It is interesting to ponder, though... I have wondered if the universe is nothing more than an incomprehensibly complex "computer program" being run before our eyes, and such "mysteries" as human behavior are merely "subroutines" within that "program." I apologize for the apparently excessive use of quotes, but I am using terminology so ill-suited to this context that I feel it is necessary.