Faith...

jonas3 · Sep 9, 2005

Jon_ said:
Ah, so you're a separatist, too. That makes sense. Not even Christ himself can conform to your standards, which means neither can you. Your beliefs are utterly inconsistent. Where did you come up with this stuff?

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

Of course, you have refuted nothing, nor have you backed up any of your claims with Scripture. Your "christ" conforms to everybody's standards, so of course you know nothing concerning the righteous commands of God or His gospel. The remnant of God most definitely separates from the unrighteous religious world, just as God Himself is separate from all who do not have the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ imputed to them.

The professing "church" is apostate. This does not mean that true Christians do not exist, nor does it mean that true Christians do not assemble together to hear and discuss the Word.

Questions to you in relation to the professing "church"...

1. Do they or do they not invite in unbelievers?

2. Does the Bible command Christians to separate from unbelievers?

-jonas

Cajun Huguenot · Sep 9, 2005

jonas3 said:
The professing "church" is apostate. This does not mean that true Christians do not exist, nor does it mean that true Christians do not assemble together to hear and discuss the Word.

Questions to you in relation to the professing "church"...

1. Do they or do they not invite in unbelievers?

2. Does the Bible command Christians to separate from unbelievers?

-jonas

Jonas,

When are you going to answer questions asked of you?

Are you able to assemble with other believers? Is there another Christian (by your standard) near enough for you to worship with?

In Christ,
Kenth

CCWoody · Sep 9, 2005

Cajun Huguenot said:
the hyperist hyper-Calvinist that I have ever met.

Maybe he just had too much coffee.

CoffeeSwirls · Sep 9, 2005

Jonas,
Do you listen to alot of Family Christian Radio with Harold Camping? What you are describing sounds much like his assertion that the Holy Spirit no longer works in the church. He says the "church age" is over and has even set a date (I think in 2011) for the rapture of the true church, those who came out of the apostate church and worship the Lord by listening to Family Christian Radio.

CCWoody, Too much coffee? There is no such thing!

CCWoody · Sep 9, 2005

CoffeeSwirls said:
CCWoody, Too much coffee? There is no such thing!

jonas3 · Sep 9, 2005

CoffeeSwirls said:
Jonas,
Do you listen to alot of Family Christian Radio with Harold Camping? What you are describing sounds much like his assertion that the Holy Spirit no longer works in the church. He says the "church age" is over and has even set a date (I think in 2011) for the rapture of the true church, those who came out of the apostate church and worship the Lord by listening to Family Christian Radio.

CCWoody, Too much coffee? There is no such thing!

No, and the Bible says nothing about this so called "church age" you speak of. Anyway, the true Church of God has existed, does exist, and will exist until the coming of their Lord. The professing "church", that calls itself "Christian", just like it has always been, and just like the self-righteous Pharisees, is apostate. You just think that the street corner synagogue is the true Church. You are wrong.

-jonas

Foundthelight · Sep 9, 2005

jonas3 said:
No, and the Bible says nothing about this so called "church age" you speak of. Anyway, the true Church of God has existed, does exist, and will exist until the coming of their Lord. The professing "church", that calls itself "Christian", just like it has always been, and just like the self-righteous Pharisees, is apostate. You just think that the street corner synagogue is the true Church. You are wrong.

-jonas

Paul made it plain that we are to gather together to worship God, that this is a requirement to be challenged and grow in faith. Just because there are unsaved hypocrites(sp?) in the church does not mean the whole church is apostate.

seekingpurity047 · Sep 9, 2005

I am very very sorry but this all sounds cultish on jonas's part.... Christ was a friend of Sinners.

Matthew 11:19

The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." ' But wisdom is proved right by her actions."

Aren't we supposed to be imitators of God, aka Jesus Christ. Ephesians 5:1

Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children...

So, shouldn't we be like Jesus was, and be friends of sinners? By inviting them to church, and maybe God will use the service to open their hearts to Him. To make them willing to accept Him into their lives. God does this all of the time.

Why can't you see it? May Christ soften your heart, and bring you to the reality of it all.

Randy

Cajun Huguenot · Sep 10, 2005

I would like to have Jonas tell us how many other people he knows personally that are Christians. Iam wondering if he is the only "true" Christian that he knows. Can he count the "true" Christians he knows on more than one hand?

Jonas seems to have the worst case of "New Calvinist diseases" that I have ever seen.

"New Calvinist diseases" seems to afflect some new Calvinsts for a time, and it is more prevalent in the young. It is an attitude that is not desirable. What happens is they come to realise that they were in a theological ditch and not on the road of sound doctrine. so they then over compensate and drive on to the road (Calvinism), then over the road, off shoulder and into the ditch on the opposite side (hyper-Calvinism).

Thankfully this does not occur with most new Calvinists, and it is usually only a temporary condition. Jonas seems to have not only gone into the ditch, he has gone through the ditch, into the corn field on the other side and he's still going.

I hope he comes to realise what he's doing and heads back to biblical reality soon.

In Christ (though Jonas does not believe it),
Kenith

CCWoody · Sep 10, 2005

Cajun Huguenot said:
What happens is they come to realise that they were in a theological ditch and not on the road of sound doctrine. so they then over compensate and drive on to the road (Calvinism), then over the road, off shoulder and into the ditch on the opposite side (hyper-Calvinism).

Or they become neo-gnostic Calvinists, requiring the right profession of the truth before someone can be considered Christian.

Jon_ · Sep 10, 2005

CCWoody said:
Or they become neo-gnostic Calvinists, requiring the right profession of the truth before someone can be considered Christian.

And in addition to that they must not fellowship with unbelievers, must not say that Arminians are saved, must not attend church, and probably a whole host of other arbitrary requirements that we have yet to discover. Because if you do any of these things, you are unregenerate.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

jonas3 · Sep 10, 2005

Interesting that everyone here rebukes all of my Biblical sayings, but when some makes an heretical statement like this with no Scripture to backup any of it, it is not refuted.

seekingpurity047 said:
So, shouldn't we be like Jesus was, and be friends of sinners? By inviting them to church, and maybe God will use the service to open their hearts to Him. To make them willing to accept Him into their lives. God does this all of the time.

Why can't you see it? May Christ soften your heart, and bring you to the reality of it all.

On the contrary, I do see it, and I know the very reason why you can NOT see it.

-jonas

jonas3 · Sep 10, 2005

Jon_ said:
And in addition to that they must not fellowship with unbelievers, must not say that Arminians are saved, must not attend church, and probably a whole host of other arbitrary requirements that we have yet to discover. Because if you do any of these things, you are unregenerate.

There are no other "arbitrary requirements" that one must do. There is only one standard by which a Christian judges righteous judgment, and that is belief in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Any other standard is wicked.

"As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." - Gal 1:9

"9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." - 2Jn 1:9-11

So the Arminians in your view do not abide in the doctrine of Christ but they do HAVE God, according to your notions.

1. All who believe a false gospel are not saved.
2. Arminianism is a false gospel.
3. Thus, all who believe Arminianism are not saved.

What is so hard to understand about this? Why do so many who say they believe the premises (1 and 2) recoil in horror at the thought of the conclusion (3)?

The answers are grave ones. Those who refuse to come to the conclusion that Arminians (those who believe Arminianism) are not saved do not truly believe one or both of the two premises. If one does not believe the first premise, then he does not believe in an exclusive gospel and believes that "there are many paths to God." If one does not believe the second premise, then he either does not know what Arminianism is or does not know what the gospel is. The one who would claim to believe the second premise and yet does not believe the conclusion is in a horrible state.

-jonas

CCWoody · Sep 10, 2005

Oh, yeah, definite neo-gnostic Calvinist.

jonas3 · Sep 10, 2005

CCWoody said:
Oh, yeah, definite neo-gnostic Calvinist.

Yet again, no Scripture, and no attempt to refute what I have posted, just false accusations, name calling, and lies.

Perhaps if you disagree with the Arminiain syllogism posted above you can say why? Or maybe you could show some Scripture to suggest otherwise?

-jonas

seekingpurity047 · Sep 10, 2005

jonas3 said:
Interesting that everyone here rebukes all of my Biblical sayings, but when some makes an heretical statement like this with no Scripture to backup any of it, it is not refuted.

On the contrary, I do see it, and I know the very reason why you can NOT see it.

-jonas

You seem to misunderstand what I meant. God changes to man's heart to make them WILLING to accept Him. God makes man willing. There is such thing as man's will.

Im sure that i posted this before, but read it again!

http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/freewill_chantry.html

Randy

Jon_ · Sep 10, 2005

jonas3 said:
Perhaps if you disagree with the Arminiain syllogism posted above you can say why? Or maybe you could show some Scripture to suggest otherwise?

Now you sound like Vincent Cheung! "All syllogisms lead to God."

Here's a Scripture for you, Jonas, but just as I do not accept your premises, you likely will not accept mine, which makes this all rather fruitless.

(Rom. 10:13 AV) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

CCWoody · Sep 10, 2005

jonas3 said:
Yet again, no Scripture, and no attempt to refute what I have posted, just false accusations, name calling, and lies.

Perhaps if you disagree with the Arminiain syllogism posted above you can say why? Or maybe you could show some Scripture to suggest otherwise?

-jonas

Alright, if you must.

First of all, regarding the Galatians, they were already said by Paul to be duped into believing this other gospel: "I marvel that you are so soon removed away unto another Gospel." I suppose that in your reading of the Scriptures Paul should have said: "I mavel that you have lost your salvation and will never get it back oh foolish Galatians." Too bad for them. Of course, you must disavow any claim to the Preservation or Perserverance of the saints.

Secondly, regarding the citation from 2 John, it is specifically identified by John what the doctrine of Christ is of which one must confess: "many deceivers have entered this world which confess not that Jesus has come in the flesh." It says nothing here about being able to properly articulate the entire gospel. These people are further said to be "anti-Christs." Given your insistence that Arminians are not saved and proof given by these verses, I'd expect you to call anyone who can't regurgitate your gospel to be declared an anti-Christ.

CCWoody · Sep 10, 2005

Jon_ said:
(Rom. 10:13 AV) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

Romans 10:13 JPT (Jonas private translation): For whosoever shall regurgitate the entire gospel without error shall be declared to be saved.

CoffeeSwirls · Sep 10, 2005

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