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Featured Faith and Works

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by brightlights, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. brightlights

    brightlights A sinner

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    "Faith is not that human illusion and dream that some people think it is. When they hear and talk a lot about faith and yet see that no moral improvement and no good works result from it, they fall into error and say, 'Faith is not enough. You must do works if you want to be virtuous and get to heaven.'

    Faith is a work of God in us, which changes us and brings us to birth anew from God...It is impossible that faith ever stop doing good. Faith doesn't ask whether good works are to be done, but, before it is asked, it has done them. It is always active. Whoever doesn't do such works is without faith...

    Faith is a living, unshakeable confidence in God's grace...Through faith, a person will do good to everyone without coercion, willingly and happily; he will serve everyone, suffer everything for the love and praise of God, who has shown him such grace. It is as impossible to separate works from faith as burning and shining from fire."

    - Martin Luther
     
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  2. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    It sounds like you are saying works is a condition of the saved. While a believer is given a new heart, with new desires as a part of the new birth, a believer is not forced against their will to be a certain way. The Bible says we need to endure, be faithful unto death, overcome, continue, etc.

    “...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).

    "Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life,...” (James 1:12).

    “...He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.” (Matthew 24:13).

    "...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).

    “To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life,...” (Revelation 2:7).

    "...He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." (Revelation 2:11).

    "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life,...” (Revelation 3:5).

    "Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).

    We are told to:

    Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
    Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
    Continue in his goodness otherwise we can be cut off (like the Jews) (See Romans 11:21-22).
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
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  3. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    After we are saved by God's grace,
    God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:



    (Here are a List of Verses):


    “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

    "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

    "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

    "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "(1 Timothy 6:3-4).

    "...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).

    "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).

    "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

    "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

    “...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

    “For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

    “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1).

    “This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. (Galatians 5:16).

    “That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4).

    "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

    "If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

    “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).

    And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).

    “...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Matthew 19:17-19).

    "And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38).

    ”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

    "...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62).

    “Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8).

    "Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

    "But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

    “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).

    ”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

    "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).

    “For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

    “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12).

    “For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;” (Titus 2:11-12).

    “...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22).

    ”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).

    “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

    ”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).

    ”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

    ”Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation [i.e. as the people of Israel did when they rebelled against him in the desert.”] (Hebrews 3:12-15) (Note: The explanation on verse 15 in brackets is taken from the Living Bible Translation (TLB)).

    ”Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)” (Hebrews 3:10-11).

    ”Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. (Hebrews 4:11).

    “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

    “He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).
     
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  4. brightlights

    brightlights A sinner

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  5. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Martin Luther said,

    "Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong (sin boldly)," ​

    Seeing I find that kind of thinking repulsive to my faith, I do not think he can offer any spiritual insight for me involving the Bible.
     
  6. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    I read this and caught it immediately! This was written from the man that said... “If thou sin, sin boldly”.

    As I rifled through the comments I chuckled, because it doesn’t get any more Sole Fide than Martin Luther.

    Luther was boasting in Faith Alone, through Christ Alone, just as James boasted. :)

    The fact that anyone could miss how Faith Alone this statement is, kind of blows my mind.

    Beautiful quote!

    I’m Sola Fide, by Jesus Christ, Alone. Jesus is our Sabbath Rest and oh man... the soul that rests in Him fears nothing. The gratitude of the abundance of Grace literally drives the soul to become a very well of overflowing grace to all humanity! :D
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
  7. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (See Titus 2:11-12).

    Luther teaches the opposite of that and says we are to sin boldly instead.
     
  8. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    Luther teaches what he initially misunderstood in the very book he initially called “An Epistle Of Straw”...

    Luther takes the Faith + Works for Salvation equation and throws it as far as the east is from the west. ;)

    Luther boasts that Faith Alone yields superior Works than Works + Faith.

    Imagine Sinner Forgiven me, walking up to a Works based chap that declares Near Sinlessness or worse yet... Sinless Perfection... and I say... Oy... you... Sinless Chap Of The Church Of Works + Faith for Salvation...

    Show me your Faith... and I’ll show you my Faith by my Works. :D

    That’s what James said and that’s what Luther is quoted as saying.

    I’m fairly certain both Luther and Paul would be excommunicated from “most” brick and Mortar Establishments for the veracity they taught “Faith Alone” with.
     
  9. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Many try to defend Luther, but his own words expose him.

    Martin Luther said,

    1. “[The commandments] only purpose is to show man his impotence to do good and to teach him to despair of himself” (ref: Denifle’s Luther et Lutheranisme, Etude Faite d’apres les sources. Translation by J. Paquier (Paris, A. Picard, 1912-13), Volume III, p. 364).
    2. “We must remove the Decalogue out of sight and heart” (ref. De Wette 4, 188)
    3. “If we allow them – the Commandments – any influence in our conscience, they become the cloak of all evil, heresies and blasphemies” (ref. Comm. ad Galat, p.310).
    4. “It is more important to guard against good works than against sin.” (ref. Trischreden, Wittenberg Edition, Vol. VI., p. 160).
    5. Good works are bad and are sin like the rest.” (ref. Denifle’s Luther et Lutheranisme, Etude Faite d’apres les sources. Translation by J. Paquier (Paris, A. Picard, 1912-13), VOl. III, pg. 47).
    6. “There is no scandal greater, more dangerous, more venomous, than a good outward life, manifested by good works and a pious mode of life. That is the grand portal, the highway that leads to damnation.” (ref. Denifle’s Luther et Lutheranisme, Etude Faite d’apres les sources. Translation by J. Paquier (Paris, A. Picard, 1912-13), VOl. II, pg. 128).
    7. “Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides… No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day.” (ref. ‘Let Your Sins Be Strong, from ‘The Wittenberg Project;’ ‘The Wartburg Segment’, translated by Erika Flores, from Dr. Martin Luther’s Saemmtliche Schriften, Letter No. 99, 1 Aug. 1521. – Cf. Also Denifle’s Luther et Lutheranisme, Etude Faite d’apres les sources. Translation by J. Paquier (Paris, A. Picard, 1912-13), VOl. II, pg. 404))
    8. “Do not ask anything of your conscience; and if it speaks, do not listen to it; if it insists, stifle it, amuse yourself; if necessary, commit some good big sin, in order to drive it away. Conscience is the voice of Satan, and it is necessary always to do just the contrary of what Satan wishes.” (ref. J. Dollinger, La Reforme et les resultants qu’elle a produits. (Trans. E. Perrot, Paris, Gaume, 1848-49), Vol III, pg. 248).

    There are other even more damning words by Luther, but this should sufficient to conclude that he should not be listened to. God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness, and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). Romans 8:13 says if we live after the flesh (sin), we will die (die spiritually), and if we put to death the deeds of the body (sin) via the Holy Spirit, we will live (live spiritually).
     
  10. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    Luther didn’t say to remove the Decalogue...
    Jesus said this through Paul. “Cast the Slave woman and her son out”. Luther was just saying what Jesus said through Paul.

    Stone is sand and enslavement.

    Jesus is a new Heart and Freedom. You could even say He’s our ROCK.
     
  11. brightlights

    brightlights A sinner

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    That quote is often misunderstood when it's lifted out of its context. Give his preface to Romans a read.
     
  12. brightlights

    brightlights A sinner

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    God commands us to be quick to listen and slow to speak. The way that you are misunderstanding Luther shows that you haven't cared enough about him to put in the effort to understand what he's saying. This is uncharitable and a violation of God's command.
     
  13. brightlights

    brightlights A sinner

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    Would it surprise you to learn that you don't understand Luther? It's very easy to misunderstand him if you just read a list of quotes lifted out of their context. It's easier to understand him if you give him a proper hearing by reading one of his pieces in which these words occur. The preface to Romans is a great place to start!
     
  14. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    The list I provided was just the tip of the iceberg on the kind of wrongful quotes he has made on a wide variety of topics. The context of what he said does not help him, either.
     
  15. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    God does not command us to listen to those who would push that they can live immorally. We are not talking about one or two sentences here, but a whole truck load of quotes that would make your hair stand on end. He also makes some pretty sad comments about women, as well.
     
  16. brightlights

    brightlights A sinner

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    How do you know? Have you read any of his complete works?
     
  17. brightlights

    brightlights A sinner

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    Would it surprise you to learn that you've misunderstood Luther?
     
  18. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    While it is possible that others could have slandered him falsely, he is definitely Sola Fide (or Belief Alone) which is contrary to what I believe the Bible teaches. I am a Trinitarian Sola Scriptura Christian who believes that salvation is "God's grace through faith + works of faith." So I doubt we would agree when it comes to soteriology or basic morality.

    Side Note:

    We really do not have a time machine to confirm what he really said or did with 100% certainty. The reports of his words are not like the reliance of say.... "Scripture" (Which is divine in origin).
     
  19. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Why would I read somebody who says words that are the polar opposite of what I believe? It makes no sense. I prefer reading and studying the pure Word of God.
     
  20. brightlights

    brightlights A sinner

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    We actually have his written words! You should read his preface to Romans. It would clear a lot of things up for you if you read it with an open mind.
     
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