Fairytale?

[Inan3]

Not really. In fact, if one looks at the rest of the passage you so eloquently omitted, it makes a lot more sense:

What did that have to do with any of what you were talking about? It doesn't seem that those verses were necessary for the point to be made and it certainly didn't change the point now that you have pointed them out. Perhaps you could elaborate on why you thought they needed to be added.

In any case, the crusaders were Christians. You might argue that they were bad Christians, Christians who misunderstood Jesus' message, but they were Christians.

They were not Christians. They were people doing wrong things in the name of Christians.

 

[AV1611VET]

So why are you NOT a sect?

Because if we were all a sect, then all the sects together would constitute a denomination.

Independent Baptist churches (which may be referred to as Independent Fundamental Baptist, or IFB) are Christian churches holding to generally Baptist beliefs. Like all Baptists they are characterized by being independent from the authority of denominations and church councils. However, the reason for the distinction, "independent," is that they eschew even the Baptist conventions or associations in which other Baptist churches participate (although many Independent Baptist churches do belong to fellowships). They remain autonomous and Congregationalist in nature and are generally fundamentalist in teaching. The IFB movement is not a denomination per se, but there are similarities that run throughout most Independent Baptist churches.

You are Christian, you are a breakoff of the older Baptist sect, so how exactly do you fail the "sect test"?

By remaining independent of each other, as well as our larger, denominational brothers and sisters.

I know this will involve "basic theology", but don't worry, I've had a few philosophy classes and I've read quite a bit.

Well --- you've made some pretty basic errors for claiming to know so much - (not that I don't, either) - but you don't see me putting science down, either.

 

[Split Rock]

They were not Christians. They were people doing wrong things in the name of Christians.

Give me a break. This is the worst example of Fundie Revisionism I have seen yet (and that is saying something). If a person considers themselves to be a Christian, then they are a Christian. Most certainly, the vast majority of those who took up "The Cross" during the Crusades considered themselves Christian and that they were doing God's Work.

 

[AV1611VET]

Then turn it off.

Ya --- I gotta better idea --- stop the pollution coming into my home at the source --- not at the tap.

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't know how to break it to you, but the Christian occupiers were gentiles (goyim).

That's another good point --- Gentiles rushing in to liberate a city from Gentiles.

 

[AV1611VET]

Give me a break. This is the worst example of Fundie Revisionism I have seen yet (and that is saying something). If a person considers themselves to be a Christian, then they are a Christian. Most certainly, the vast majority of those who took up "The Cross" during the Crusades considered themselves Christian and that they were doing God's Work.

Good --- I consider myself a millionaire. I'll honk when I pull up in front of your house in my Maybach.

[bible]John 1:12-13[/bible]

You can't will yourself into Christendom.

 

[Split Rock]

For AVET and Inan:

"I, or rather the Lord, beseech you as Christ's heralds to publish this everywhere and to persuade all people of whatever rank, foot-soldiers and knights, poor and rich, to carry aid promptly to those Christians and to destroy that vile race from the lands of our friends. I say this to those who are present, it meant also for those who are absent. Moreover, Christ commands it."
-Pope Urban II, Speech at Council of Clermont, 1095

"Urban, bishop, servant of the servants of God, to all the faithful, both princes and subjects, waiting in Flanders; greeting, apostolic grace, and blessing.

Your brotherhood, we believe, has long since learned from many accounts that a barbaric fury has deplorably afflicted an laid waste the churches of God in the regions of the Orient. More than this, blasphemous to say, it has even grasped in intolerabe servitude its churches and the Holy City of Christ, glorified b His passion and resurrection. Grieving with pious concern at this calamity, we visited the regions of Gaul and devoted ourselves largely to urging the princes of the land and their subjects to free the churches of the East. We solemnly enjoined upon them at the council of Auvergne (the accomplishment of) such an undertaking, as a preparation for the remission of all their sins. And we have constituted our most beloved son, Adhemar, Bishop of Puy, leader of this expedition and undertaking in our stead, so that those who, perchance, may wish to undertake this journey should comply With his commands, as if they were our own, and submit fully to his loosings or bindings, as far as shall seem to belong to such an office. If, moreover, there are any of your people whom God has inspired to this vow, let them know that he (Adhemar) will set out with the aid of God on the day of the Assumption of the Blessed Mary, and that they can then attach themselves to his following."
-Urban II: Letter of Instruction to the Crusaders, December 1095

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/urban2-5vers.html

 

[Split Rock]

Good --- I consider myself a millionaire. I'll honk when I pull up in front of your house in my Maybach.

[bible]John 1:12-13[/bible]

You can't will yourself into Christendom.

You are not the one to judge whether someone is a Christian or not.

 

[AV1611VET]

For AVET and Inan:

"I, or rather the Lord, beseech you as Christ's heralds to publish this everywhere and to persuade all people of whatever rank, foot-soldiers and knights, poor and rich, to carry aid promptly to those Christians and to destroy that vile race from the lands of our friends. I say this to those who are present, it meant also for those who are absent. Moreover, Christ commands it."
-Pope Urban II, Speech at Council of Clermont, 1095

Reply to Pope Urban II, from AV700VET:

• I respectfully decline. Jerusalem shall be trodden underfoot of the Gentiles until our most noble Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ returns to liberate this city by hand.

"Urban, bishop, servant of the servants of God, to all the faithful, both princes and subjects, waiting in Flanders; greeting, apostolic grace, and blessing.

Your brotherhood, we believe, has long since learned from many accounts that a barbaric fury has deplorably afflicted an laid waste the churches of God in the regions of the Orient. More than this, blasphemous to say, it has even grasped in intolerabe servitude its churches and the Holy City of Christ, glorified b His passion and resurrection. Grieving with pious concern at this calamity, we visited the regions of Gaul and devoted ourselves largely to urging the princes of the land and their subjects to free the churches of the East. We solemnly enjoined upon them at the council of Auvergne (the accomplishment of) such an undertaking, as a preparation for the remission of all their sins. And we have constituted our most beloved son, Adhemar, Bishop of Puy, leader of this expedition and undertaking in our stead, so that those who, perchance, may wish to undertake this journey should comply With his commands, as if they were our own, and submit fully to his loosings or bindings, as far as shall seem to belong to such an office. If, moreover, there are any of your people whom God has inspired to this vow, let them know that he (Adhemar) will set out with the aid of God on the day of the Assumption of the Blessed Mary, and that they can then attach themselves to his following."
-Urban II: Letter of Instruction to the Crusaders, December 1095

Reply to Urban II, from AV700VET:

• Again, and with respect to the most holy Scriptures, we decline your offer for aforesaid reason, and as stated by our most noble Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, in writing, and preserved in our most holy authorized version, the 700 Anglo-Saxon Scripture:

• and hig feallað on swurdes ecge: and beoð hæftlingas on ealle þeoda; Hierusalem bið fram þeodum fortreden oð mægða tida syn gefyllede;

• In addition, and by the authority of this verse alone, I respectfully request that you cease and desist from your aforestated venture, until such time as the Lord Himself deems fit to return and settle this matter in His own time.
• Before someone gets hurt.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Ya --- I gotta better idea --- stop the pollution coming into my home at the source --- not at the tap.

But the rest of us like the pollution.

 

[Loudmouth]

Reply to Pope Urban II, from AV700VET:

• I respectfully decline. Jerusalem shall be trodden underfoot of the Gentiles until our most noble Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ returns to liberate this city by hand.

Reply to Urban II, from AV700VET:

• Again, and with respect to the most holy Scriptures, we decline your offer for aforesaid reason, and as stated by our most Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, in writing, and preserved in our most holy authorized version, the 700 Anglo-Saxon Scripture:
• In addition, and by the authority of this verse alone, I respectfully request that you cease and desist from your aforestated venture, until such time as the Lord Himself deems fit to return and settle this matter in His own time.
• Before someone gets hurt.

This doesn't change the fact that the Crusades were fought in the name of your Messiah.

 

[Loudmouth]

Ya --- I gotta better idea --- stop the pollution coming into my home at the source --- not at the tap.

Somebody have a gun to your head? Take down your antenna, cable, dish, whatever. Or perhaps you should start a crusade?

 

[AV1611VET]

But the rest of us like the pollution.

Does a fish know it's wet?

 

[AV1611VET]

This doesn't change the fact that the Crusades were fought in the name of your Messiah.

[bible]Matthew 7:22-23[/bible]

 

[Split Rock]

Ya --- and I'll bet you blame the Indians for the Boston Tea Party --- don't you?

Are you claiming that Pope Urban II was an Indian??

 

[Loudmouth]

[bible]Matthew 7:22-23[/bible]

So you speak for Jesus now?

 

[Vene]

Does a fish know it's wet?

Do you know you're dry? Same concept really.

 

[AV1611VET]

Any legitimate questions before I leave this thread behind?

 

[Split Rock]

Any legitimate questions before I leave this thread behind?

Sure, can you answer this one:

What do you think qualifies evolution as a fairytale?

 

[Inan3]

You are not the one to judge whether someone is a Christian or not.

Oh contrare, we are exactly the ones to judge whether some are Christians or not! You do err not knowing the scriptures or the power of God! We are admonished even warned, TO know and judge who are real and who are not.

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

God EXPECTS us to judge them by their fruits. He expects us to prove the spirits and NOT to just swallow every thing a person says.

In the Old Testament when He said NOT to take the Name of the Lord in vain He wasn't talking about swear words He was talking about people who SAY they are Christians or God's people or have a word from Him but lie and live contrary to Him.

Jer 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.

Eze 13:6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith: and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made [others] to hope that they would confirm the word. Eze 13:7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith [it]; albeit I have not spoken? Eze 13:8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I [am] against you, saith the Lord GOD.