Fairytale?

[AV1611VET]

I know I won't convince you, but that has nothing to do with the evidence. All you have left is your stubborness.

And I don't need a lecture from you telling me where to go to get the "correct" cosmology of the universe, either.

 

[Aron-Ra]

I came to my conclusions after years of soul-searching and trying to understand faith better. I sat down and read the bible cover to cover (sans apocrypha) to better understand. I took philosophy classes and read numerous books on the history of religious and christian thought.

I also read the Bible, and did so as a Christian earnestly wanting to find therein some hint of devine wisdom from the god I never even thought to question -until I read the Bible. I found it to be indigestible horrific nonsense, nothing but criminal idiocy, superstition and bigotry. Being able to recognize the Bible for what it was, I moved on to other sacred tomes from many other religions. By the time I was twenty, I had at different times considered myself to be a common Christian, then a "reborn" Christian, then a Deist and a pantheist. I was even an occultist and a Druidic padowan at that time. I've read volumes about Biblical history and other examples of anceint mythology even before returning to college. I've since taken anthropology, physical and historical geology, paleobiology, cellular biology, and evolution as 4th level biology. I also continued my study of world religions and religious history with a class which required me to attend religions services from unfamiliar religions. I chose Theravada Buddhism and Bhakti Hindu which were both lots of fun and very enjoyable -but still utter BS. World literature, humanities, Psychology, and art history all proved to be additional sources on the questionable origins and authenticity of the Bible, as well as revealing contradictory references from many non-Biblical pre-Christian religions. I've read the Bhagavad-Gita and the Avestas of Zarathustra for myself and found both of them wanting for exactly the same reasons I was disappointed with the Bible; the intolerance of ignorant men being passed off as the word of God.

And my mind remains open to the ever more remote possibility that someone might cough up some thus-far overlooked reason to believe in something "supernatural" if only my own soul. But all I've seen from religion thus far are deliberate lies of every kind from intentionally closed minds who will do whatever it takes not to realize the truth. That's why they can't recognize their scriptures for what they really are, and why they can't recognize what science really is either.

 

[Split Rock]

Right --- free the Holy Land --- after Jesus said it would be occupied until after the times of the Gentiles.

Wouldn't you say these "Christians" were jumping the gun a little, and trying to prove Jesus' words wrong?

OK... what if I agree with you that these "Christians" were jumping the gun? How does that prove they weren't Christians??

 

[AV1611VET]

I chose Theravada Buddhism and Bhakti Hindu which were both lots of fun and very enjoyable...

With a little tantra on the side?

(Just asking.)

 

[MrGoodBytes]

Right --- free the Holy Land --- after Jesus said it would be occupied until after the times of the Gentiles.

Wouldn't you say these "Christians" were jumping the gun a little, and trying to prove Jesus' words wrong?

[bible]Luke 21:24[/bible]

Not really. In fact, if one looks at the rest of the passage you so eloquently omitted, it makes a lot more sense:

20And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.


21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.


22For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.


23But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.


24And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.


25And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;


26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.


27And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.


28And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

In any case, the crusaders were Christians. You might argue that they were bad Christians, Christians who misunderstood Jesus' message, but they were Christians.

 

[AV1611VET]

OK... what if I agree with you that these "Christians" were jumping the gun? How does that prove they weren't Christians??

It certainly doesn't prove they were Christians, does it?

I'd say it shows more that they weren't.

Even you'll agree that what they did wasn't Christian?

Learn how to spot a false prophet once in awhile, okay?

 

[thaumaturgy]

Your credibility with me was shot when you tried to pin the Crusades on Christians.

Hmmm, wonder who it was then that was involved. I especially like the Albigensian Crusade.

Who was responsible for these wondrous acts?

Also, you demonstrated a severe lack of understanding with where Independent Fundamental Baptists stand on issues of the past, and things that happen/have happened beyond their individual membership rolls.

You're just another sect. One of many.

Sorry to break it to you.

You blew your credibility with me when you seemed to have such trouble the words of your own lord and savior:

[BIBLE]Luke 6:31[/BIBLE]

You seem to think you can teach but never have to learn.

 

[AV1611VET]

In any case, the crusaders were Christians. You might argue that they were bad Christians, Christians who misunderstood Jesus' message, but they were Christians.

So if I attacked a city and pillaged it, committing atrocities like they did; I'd just be a "bad Christian?"

Was William Calley, jr. just a "bad boy?"

 

[MrGoodBytes]

So if I attacked a city and pillaged it, committing atrocities like they did; I'd just be a "bad Christian?"

Was William Calley, jr. just a "bad boy?"

Since God commanded entire genocides in the OT, I don't see how he would take offense to pillaging a city.

 

[AV1611VET]

Hmmm, wonder who it was then that was involved. I especially like the Albigensian Crusade.

Who was responsible for these wondrous acts?

I'm not taking a trip through memory lane arm-in-arm with you.

You're just another sect. One of many.

No, I'm not "just another sect - one of many."

We are neither a sect, nor a denomination.

You seem to think you can teach but never have to learn.

It only appears that way because I'm dealing mostly with issues that are answered by basic theology.

Once in a while I'll bring up something intermediate, like Dispensation Theology, or go deep with Ontological Subordination, or the Astrographic Gospel; but for the most part, it's basic theology.

 

[AV1611VET]

Since God commanded entire genocides in the OT, I don't see how he would take offense to pillaging a city.

Cute --- ignore the context to critique the Creator --- that's real professional.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

Cute --- ignore the context to critique the Creator --- that's real professional.

I had the impression that God's commandments are eternal and unchanging, in stark contrast to us atheists' arbitrary and context-dependent morals.

 

[AV1611VET]

I had the impression that God's commandments are eternal and unchanging, in stark contrast to us atheists' arbitrary and context-dependent morals.

I see your "arbitrary and context-dependent morals" every time I turn the TV on.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

I see your "arbitrary and context-dependent morals" every time I turn the TV on.

Come again?

 

[Split Rock]

It certainly doesn't prove they were Christians, does it?

You were supposed to prove they were not.

I'd say it shows more that they weren't.

They were Christian. Stop pretending they were not.

Even you'll agree that what they did wasn't Christian?

Isn't fighting a Holy Crusade, Christian? Didn't the Hebrews do just that under Yahweh's express command in the Old Testament?

Learn how to spot a false prophet once in awhile, okay?

Yeah.. like those "Creation Ministries" you creationists are so fond of quoting?

 

[thaumaturgy]

I'm not taking a trip through memory lane arm-in-arm with you.

Probably because you can't stand the walk.

That's OK. History, like science, is hard.

No, I'm not "just another sect - one of many."

We are neither a sect, nor a denomination.

So why are you NOT a sect?

You are Christian, you are a breakoff of the older Baptist sect, so how exactly do you fail the "sect test"?

At the turn of the century in the early 1900's many Baptists began to see the apostasy that was going on in the Southern and American Baptist Conventions. Baptist preachers like J. Frank Norris, W.B. Riley, and John Rice led the charge and cried "FOUL" at the apostasy and liberalism coming into the denominations, mainly thru the hiring of Bible-denying apostate Professors in the Baptist Seminaries! How could God's people allow their tithe money to go to pay the salaries of these liberal Christ-denying professors who were teaching future preachers?

When the Southern Baptist and American Baptist Convention Seminaries refused to fire these professors, many Baptist Churches pulled out and became INDEPENDENT Baptists.(SOURCE)

Although during same time period mainline denominations were struggling with the Fundamentalist-Modernist Controversy, many within these local Baptist churches felt that any association with Liberalism/Modernism even in the forum of debate was tantamount to compromise and was therefore unscriptural. As a result many of these local Baptist churches separated from their former denominations and conventions and reestablished themselves as independent churches. Oftentimes within these Denominational churches more conservative elements would often set about establishing new Independent Baptist churches instead of remaining within the denominational churches. (SOURCE)

I know this will involve "basic theology", but don't worry, I've had a few philosophy classes and I've read quite a bit.

I can also use a dictionary.

sect, religious sect, religious order (a subdivision of a larger religious group),faction, sect (a dissenting clique)
(SOURCE)

 

[Loudmouth]

And I don't need a lecture from you telling me where to go to get the "correct" cosmology of the universe, either.

What's good for the goose . . .

 

[Inan3]

That's kinda sick. Sorry to hear you think another human being can be "owned" such that they would need to be treated well.

"Direction and Protection for the treatment of the slave." That's pretty twisted.

Sort of like what you did to what I said so you could accuse me falsely.

Would you like to be a slave? No matter how well treated you are, you're still a slave. Owned by another human being.

I never said that I thought another human being should be or can be owned. It was a different society and their slaves were treated well. It was more like job than slavery.

Not my problem if you didn't intend to make the statement a blanket statement.

It's never your problem is it TMT?

 

[Loudmouth]

I see your "arbitrary and context-dependent morals" every time I turn the TV on.

Then turn it off.

 

[Gracchus]

Right --- free the Holy Land --- after Jesus said it would be occupied until after the times of the Gentiles.

I don't know how to break it to you, but the Christian occupiers were gentiles (goyim).