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Failure: Is it Even Possible with God?

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by Sola1517, May 15, 2019 at 1:36 PM.

  1. Sola1517

    Sola1517 Saint-in-Progress (Looking for a Church)

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    Does God's word ever fail? (Romans 9:6)

    What I believe this means: God's call to salvation happens every time the Gospel is preached, people can reject God's call on the condition that they do not yield to the Spirit. (Just like how physical Israel didn't) Still the word of God does not fail, either it condemns or it saves. The Holy Spirit works every time the Bible is taught accurately. However, God does not double predestine people. (2 Peter 3:9) He calls everyone, but people reject him and he is not responsible.

    Helm's Deep: Effectual Calling

    Is there such a thing as an ineffectual call versus an effectual call and how is it Scriptural?

    Also, am I more of a Calvinist or an Arminian by what i have written here?
     
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  2. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    I myself would hope you are neither.

    Simply believe the Father, and do what He Says to do.
     
  3. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Well-Known Member

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    You seem to lean toward Arminian.

    The Calvinist would say that while it is possible to reject the outward call of the gospel while it is preached, the inward call of the Holy Spirit under the preaching is impossible to resist. It is one thing to resist the public preaching, it is another to be able to resist the internal drawing.

    In the (modern) Arminian view, winning people is a matter of constant persuading and convincing them that the gospel is something they need. Even if you preached it faithfully, people need to still be persuaded enough to really want it.

    In the Calvinist view, winning people is a matter of leaving the result to God while the gospel is preached faithfully. This guarantees real success, because it is not in our persuasion or reason or lofty speech that will bring people to faith, but God's own drawing that will do it. If men reject the message, they reject it. But all those whom God elected, God draws to hear it and believe it savingly. And, it may not be immediate, sometimes God will use one person to sow the seed that another will water later in that person's life, but still in the end it was God who drew them to faith. This view, which I believe is the only biblical view, places our faith in God for its success and not in our words or how we sound or whatever other methods we use. God has the results. You can preach to a mixed crowd and be sure that your preaching wasn't in vain, God will use it however he wants to use it.

    And we do use means to persuade, but not as if the persuading by itself brings them to faith, but as a means to communicate more clearly the gospel truths that may have not been understood by the hearer.
     
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  4. Sola1517

    Sola1517 Saint-in-Progress (Looking for a Church)

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    So really Calvinists attempt to illustrate more than debate. Am I correct?
     
  5. His student

    His student Active Member

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    One of the linchpins in the doctrine of the effectual call is Romans 8:28-30

    "And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified."

    All people in the world who hear the gospel call are not justified. All those in this passage are justified. Therefore this call must be different than the general call.

    This effective call is often called the inward or internal call. As the scriptures say ---

    ".............flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven." Matt. 16:17

    ".......... the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul." Acts 16:14

    ".....no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit." 1 Cor. 12:3

    Since He says that all who are so called are justified - it obviously is not resistible - at least it can't be effectively resisted.

    As the Lord said, "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out." John 6:37

    Since it is obvious that not everyone receives this inward call - the doctrine of election becomes inescapable even if the concept was mentioned nowhere else in the scriptures.

    As the Lord said,
    "For many are called, but few are chosen." Matthew 22:14
    You are more Arminian by what I have seen written by you in the OP.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019 at 6:12 AM
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