Fact for creationists

[Tenka]

I'm still trying to get my head around the concept of light first, then the source.

It is the same deal as when we are told to "Believe first, then you will see the evidence that God exists"

 

[guzman]

This is one, amazing thread. I'm witnessing one mind-numbing explanation after the next.

Not only are the desperate ones resistant to evidence, they are also impervious to logic and reason. Their minds are truly impenetrable. Ain't nothing gettin' in.

I admit I'm not to up on my science...but it's interesting and I'm willing to learn. Sorry I'm not informed enough to flex your brain muscles.

 

[Krak]

maybe, maybe not...but I wouldn't want to be there to find out. I think if the sun were to move around, the planets would follow suit. We could debate this all day long, but I admit I have no real authority to discuss it from a scientific standpoint, I'm just talking common sense. But if you see it differently, then fine. You're welcome to your opinion.

WOW you talking common sense? I think you need a reality check buddy, gravity has nothing to do with "chaining objects together" the earth is NOT a "subservant" of the sun. If the sun were to disappear, the planets would not disappear as well, rofl. You make absolutely no sense and I fail to see how this is even relevant to the original discussion.

 

[guzman]

WOW you talking common sense? I think you need a reality check buddy, gravity has nothing to do with "chaining objects together" the earth is NOT a "subservant" of the sun. If the sun were to disappear, the planets would not disappear as well, rofl. (I did not say that) You make absolutely no sense and I fail to see how this is even relevant to the original discussion.

http://www.stanford.edu/~buzzt/gravity.html

Gravity holds together entire solar systems and galaxies!

 

[guzman]

krak: WOW you talking common sense? I think you need a reality check buddy, gravity has nothing to do with "chaining objects together" the earth is NOT a "subservant" of the sun. If the sun were to disappear, the planets would not disappear as well, rofl.

funny you should say that...

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/gravity_speed_030107.html

Though fast, light takes time to travel. If the Sun suddenly disappeared, it would take about 8.3 minutes before daylight on Earth would evaporate. With the Sun gone, gravity would cease to keep Earth in a circular orbit, and it would fly away.

 

[guzman]

http://www.metaresearch.org/cosmology/gravity/possiblenewpropertiesofgravity.asp

Another curious property of gravity is its apparently instantaneous action.

 

[Krak]

Gravity holds together entire solar systems and galaxies!

Newton also realized that the moon would fly off away from Earth in a straight line tangent to its orbit if some force was not causing it to fall toward the Earth. The moon is only a projectile circling around the Earth under the attraction of Gravity.

Same thing would happen to the earth if the sun disappeared, the earth would fly off in a straight line

Gravity is a force of attraction that exists between any two objects. There is a force of gravity between the sun and the Earth, between the Earth and us, and even between two marbles.

If the sun disappeared, the earth would not disappear with it. Your argument is so rediculous it's stupid. Gravity is a force of attraction if an object disappears, there is no more attraction, is there?

 

[Krak]

krak: WOW you talking common sense? I think you need a reality check buddy, gravity has nothing to do with "chaining objects together" the earth is NOT a "subservant" of the sun. If the sun were to disappear, the planets would not disappear as well, rofl.

funny you should say that...

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/gravity_speed_030107.html

Though fast, light takes time to travel. If the Sun suddenly disappeared, it would take about 8.3 minutes before daylight on Earth would evaporate. With the Sun gone, gravity would cease to keep Earth in a circular orbit, and it would fly away.

[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth], this is what i was saying all along...thanks for clarifying me.

 

[guzman]

krak: WOW you talking common sense? I think you need a reality check buddy, gravity has nothing to do with "chaining objects together" the earth is NOT a "subservant" of the sun. If the sun were to disappear, the planets would not disappear as well, rofl.

funny you should say that...

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/gravity_speed_030107.html

Though fast, light takes time to travel. If the Sun suddenly disappeared, it would take about 8.3 minutes before daylight on Earth would evaporate. With the Sun gone, gravity would cease to keep Earth in a circular orbit, and it would fly away.

bump

 

[guzman]

krak...at least I admit I know next to nothing about physics and cosmology -- and I think you're in the same boat -- you just don't admit it. I'm going to bed. thanks for the conversation.

 

[Krak]

krak...at least I admit I know next to nothing about physics and cosmology -- and I think you're in the same boat -- you just don't admit it. I'm going to bed. thanks for the conversation.

You made absolutely no sense for 10 posts, now hopefully we can get this thread back on topic.

 

[guzman]

krak: WOW you talking common sense? I think you need a reality check buddy, gravity has nothing to do with "chaining objects together" the earth is NOT a "subservant" of the sun. If the sun were to disappear, the planets would not disappear as well, rofl.

funny you should say that...

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/gravity_speed_030107.html

Though fast, light takes time to travel. If the Sun suddenly disappeared, it would take about 8.3 minutes before daylight on Earth would evaporate. With the Sun gone, gravity would cease to keep Earth in a circular orbit, and it would fly away.

bump again for krak, who thinks I make no sense.....what exactly was your response to this again?

 

[Skaloop]

maybe, maybe not...but I wouldn't want to be there to find out. I think if the sun were to move around, the planets would follow suit. We could debate this all day long, but I admit I have no real authority to discuss it from a scientific standpoint, I'm just talking common sense. But if you see it differently, then fine. You're welcome to your opinion.

When you're dealing with speeds approaching that of light and distances measured in billions of miles and masses the size of a star, common sense is useless.

The sun moves now, and the planets follow, that is a granted. If the sun were to suddenly take off in a random direction, well, I would think that the speed at which it does so will determine how and whether the planets follow.

For eaxmple, take a fairly strong magnet and hold it under a piece of cardboard, or a magazine or something (depending on the strength of the magnet). Put a nickel on top of the cardboard. Move the magnet around slowly. The nickel will follow. Yank the magnet across quickly, and the nickel will not follow along.

 

[guzman]

When you're dealing with speeds approaching that of light and distances measured in billions of miles and masses the size of a star, common sense is useless.

The sun moves now, and the planets follow, that is a granted. If the sun were to suddenly take off in a random direction, well, I would think that the speed at which it does so will determine how and whether the planets follow.

.

not according to krak.....so who's right?

 

[Krak]

not according to krak.....so who's right?

Skaloop is right, he managed to clarify for me. To me, you were saying if the sun just "disappeared" as in vanish, doesn't exist anymore. Thats what you were originally saying. If the sun were to just fly off in a random direction, it would depend on the velocity of the sun, the faster the sun travels, the less likely the planets are to follow. Here is an example;

The earth's gravitational pull is 9.38 meters/second. So if the earth were all of a sudden to start "plummeting" 10 meters/second downward, I would slowly rise into the air and eventually outer space.

 

[Skaloop]

not according to krak.....so who's right?

No, I don't think we're at odds. I said they might follow depending on how fast the Sun moved away, and I mean if it were speeds far far below that of light. But we both agree that the planets and the sun are not connected as if they were on chains, and that the gravitational effects of the sun do not act upon the planets instantaneously.

 

[guzman]

Skaloop is right, he managed to clarify for me. To me, you were saying if the sun just "disappeared" as in vanish, doesn't exist anymore. Thats what you were originally saying. .

No, I did not at all say that -- You said that. I said nothing of the sort...your memory is terrible.

 

[Krak]

No, I don't think we're at odds. I said they might follow depending on how fast the Sun moved away, and I mean if it were speeds far far below that of light. But we both agree that the planets and the sun are not connected as if they were on chains, and that the gravitational effects of the sun do not act upon the planets instantaneously.

exactly

 

[guzman]

No, I don't think we're at odds. I said they might follow depending on how fast the Sun moved away, and I mean if it were speeds far far below that of light. But we both agree that the planets and the sun are not connected as if they were on chains, and that the gravitational effects of the sun do not act upon the planets instantaneously.

then what's this?

http://www.metaresearch.org/cosmology/gravity/possiblenewpropertiesofgravity.asp

But observations indicate that none of this happens in the case of gravity! There is no detectable delay for the propagation of gravity from Sun to Earth. The direction of the Sun’s gravitational force is toward its true, instantaneous position, not toward a retarded position, to the full accuracy of observations. And no perceptible change in the Earth’s mean orbital speed has yet been detected, even though the effect of a finite speed of gravity is cumulative over time. Gravity has no perceptible aberration, and no Poynting-Robertson effect – the primary indicators of its propagation speed. Indeed, Newtonian gravity explicitly assumes that gravity propagates with infinite speed.

 

[guzman]

then what's this?

http://www.metaresearch.org/cosmology/gravity/possiblenewpropertiesofgravity.asp

But observations indicate that none of this happens in the case of gravity! There is no detectable delay for the propagation of gravity from Sun to Earth. The direction of the Sun’s gravitational force is toward its true, instantaneous position, not toward a retarded position, to the full accuracy of observations. And no perceptible change in the Earth’s mean orbital speed has yet been detected, even though the effect of a finite speed of gravity is cumulative over time. Gravity has no perceptible aberration, and no Poynting-Robertson effect – the primary indicators of its propagation speed. Indeed, Newtonian gravity explicitly assumes that gravity propagates with infinite speed.

so if gravity travels at infinite speed (as Newton said) then how exactly is it that "nothing" travels faster than the speed of light?

hmmmmm.......................good night, all.