Face book friend posted this. So, how's he wrong?

[Der Alte]

Sigh... Just because you think that's what those verses mean, doesn't actually that's what they mean.
Tell me, how does eternal destruction, gel with the restitution of all things or the last enemy death being destroyed?

That is exactly what those scripture mean.
Greek has always been the language of the Greek Eastern Orthodox church. Who better than they know the correct meaning of, e.g. “aionios” and “kolasis?” Note the EOB uses “aionios” and “aidios” as synonyms.

The Eastern / Greek Orthodox Bible EOB — New Testament 96
Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them. saying ‘Amen. I tell you: a much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [[ones on the left]] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιωνιον/kolasin aionion] but the righteous into eternal life.
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly seen. They perceived through created things, even his everlasting [τε αιδιος/te aidios] power and divinity.
1 Timothy 1:17 Now, to the eternal [των αιωνων/ton aionon] King. immortal. invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory unto ages of ages. Amen.
https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/books/original/18204/18204-New-Testament-(The-Eastern-Greek-Orthodox-Bible).pdf​

This version can be D/L at the link above. If you choose to read this version I suggest you read the scholarship recorded in the preface.

 

[bbbbbbb]

That's exactly right. How do you know? You don't, unless God shows them to you.

1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Yup. Then when you call someone else out on not seeing things the way you believe the Spirit of God has revealed them to you personally, that other person responds that you are the one who is blind because the Spirit of God has revealed something entirely different to him. You, of course, have the delightful fallback theology that what others take at face value is, in reality, merely symbolic and that symbolic meaning has been hidden from everyone except you (and anyone else who happens to share your views).

 

[Jipsah]

1. God is not in hell

Psalm 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

so he is not torturing anyone there.

Oh, that's nice. Who created hell? Who decreed that the lost end up there?

One can read of the descriptions of the inhabitants in hell and God is not among them.

Best get to work and correct that part of the Bible, then.

2. God is not sending his enemies to hell because they are his enemies. One can read the list of misdeeds those sent to hell did and most of them are against people. He does not want them in Heaven because they will continue to do those same Things making heaven into hell.

Poor God being powerless to stop it, right? Or to simply erase them as a bad lot. Gotta subject them to torture forever. A little much, don't you think?

SO they go there others like them who liked that sort of behaviour go.

Where they go because God designed it so. He could have done it otherwise has He so chosen, right? He is God, after all.

That they are no longer the stronger ones there is not God's fault. He gave them opportunity to choose otherwise.

Yeah, my great granddad who in all probability never heard of our Lord, of if he did wrote it off as babbling about some foreign god, and who knew nothing of the Bible, or Jesus, and the Plan of Salvation, or that there was anything to saved from, went to hell because chose to? Nah, ain't buying it.

So, God is not there doing anything to anyone and people are sent to hell because of their deeds. Shall not the Judge of all the Earth do rightly?

Yeah, I believe He shall. That's why I have to reject the eternal torture doctrine as invalid, because it portrays the Judge of all the Earth as not doing right, but portrays Him as a pitiless, merciless despot. I do not for an instant believe that . He Who prayed "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do" for those who were in the process of committing the most horrific crime in history, is somehow recast as utterly without any shred of compassion for those He created. Especially so knowing that they would spend eternity in torment.

 

[martymonster]

Yup. Then when you call someone else out on not seeing things the way you believe the Spirit of God has revealed them to you personally, that other person responds that you are the one who is blind because the Spirit of God has revealed something entirely different to him. You, of course, have the delightful fallback theology that what others take at face value is, in reality, merely symbolic and that symbolic meaning has been hidden from everyone except you (and anyone else who happens to share your views).

You make it sound as if I claim to see things that no one else can. This is false. If I believed that, then I'd be trying to pass myself off as some kind of modern day prophet, which I'm not. Things revealed in scripture, are merely interpreted by scripture, so it couldn't be a personal revelation, as you claim I so claim.
If you take a verse from scripture and a "face value" interpretation of it causes it to conflict with other scriptures, then clearly it cannot be correct.

As for the symbolism, parables are made up of symbols, and since Christ only taught in parables... well, I'll let you do the math.

 

[Jipsah]

Turn it around. How can a dead person enter heaven?

Trick is, I believe that dead means dead, not alive but enduring torture. They have eternal life, but in eternal torment. As I said, ain't buying it.

 

[Jipsah]

God took pity on all humanity.

That idea would probably be a hard sell to someone being tortured for millions of years.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Psalm 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

That was then Sheol and David, Abraham and all the other saints went there until Jesus. They were not suffering.

Oh, that's nice. Who created hell? Who decreed that the lost end up there?

Was created for the Devil and his bunch. That bunch might torture.

Best get to work and correct that part of the Bible, then.

No, you just need to read it all.

Poor God being powerless to stop it, right? Or to simply erase them as a bad lot. Gotta subject them to torture forever. A little much, don't you think?

Where they go because God designed it so. He could have done it otherwise has He so chosen, right? He is God, after all.

You’re not the first to jeer at God. I doubt you want an answer but basically you do not know Him nor how He works. It is complex. How you define him is not how he is or works. He’s superior to your understanding.

Yeah, my great granddad who in all probability never heard of our Lord, of if he did wrote it off as babbling about some foreign god, and who knew nothing of the Bible, or Jesus, and the Plan of Salvation, or that there was anything to saved from, went to hell because chose to? Nah, ain't buying it.

Since you yourself say he chose not to believe but jeered at the idea, He’s judged based on his deeds.

Yeah, I believe He shall. That's why I have to reject the eternal torture doctrine as invalid, because it portrays the Judge of all the Earth as not doing right, but portrays Him as a pitiless, merciless despot. I do not for an instant believe that . He Who prayed "Father forgive them, for they know what they do" for those who were in the process of committing the most horrific crime in history, is somehow recast as utterly without any shred of compassion for those He created. Especially so knowing that they would spend eternity in torment.

No one who knew or knows God thought this but I’m sure it’s a comfort to you.

 

[FineLinen]

“We all must die and are like water spilled on the ground that cannot be gathered up again, but the Lord does not take away life, instead He devises ways for the banished to be restored.”

The risen Christ preaches to the dead

“Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached to the spirits in prison; which once were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was in preparation, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water… for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.”


"Who shall render an account unto him who is holding in readiness to judge living and dead; for, unto this end, even unto the dead, was the glad-message delivered,—in order that they might be judged, indeed, according to men in flesh, but might live according to God in spirit." -Rotherham Emphasized-

Dead=

nekros= a corpse (from nekus)=

Breathed his last/ lifeless.

Deceased/ departed.

Destitute of life/ without life.

Inanimate.

Disobedient= apeitheo=

Not to allow one’s self to be persuaded.

To refuse or withhold belief & obedience.

To refuse belief and obedience.

Not to comply with.

Live= zao=

To be alive with resurrection life..

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Hi Shrewd Manager,

Whenever we have issues with God's judgment, it's usually because we don't understand sin and the nature of it. Assuming the "young rape victim" in your example was not a child, and as tragic as that type of violation against women is, the reality of such cases is that the rape victim herself is a sinner before God.

She (along with each of us, including her rapist) deserves death and eternal separation from God because "the wages of sin is death," both physically and spiritually. That's just the brutal reality of sin and it's consequences since none of us ever measures up to God's standard of perfect holiness.

Therefore, no matter how "good" or "innocent" we may appear to be, we will not escape hell unless we repent and place our faith in Jesus for what He did for us on the cross. Only Jesus lived a perfect, sinless life, and died a sacrificial death on our behalf so we wouldn't have to pay for our sins personally in hell. But if we reject Him and His free gift of grace, there's no other option for us to be saved. The only other alternative is eternal separation from God.

Likewise, her rapist will also suffer in hell for his sins unless he recognizes his sinfulness before God, repents, and trusts Jesus as his Savior. If he does, his sins would be completely washed away by the blood of the Lamb (just like every one of ours was when we accepted Christ as Savior and Lord) and he'll be in heaven undeservedly like all of us will be as born-again Christians.

That is why the gospel is Good News - because the Bad News is so bad!

I appreciate you're only restating the conventional reformist/ protestant/ evangelical view on the matter. I'll try to sum up what you've put forward, and please correct me if you think it's misrepresenting your theology there.

According to you, God's policies are, in brief:

1. In relation to the girl, the filthy little b!tch had her chance to repent but she blew it, now she's regrettably going to have to burn in hell forever, and it's her own stupid fault.
2. In relation to the perp, he's said the sinner's prayer and cried with remorse, so I'll relieve him of all that guilt and let him on in, no more to pay.
3. Generally, I love you all, but if you don't accept Jesus, you can all go to hell, where you'll burn forever and a day.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Trick is, I believe that dead means dead, not alive but enduring torture. They have eternal life, but in eternal torment. As I said, ain't buying it.

Death means separation, not the end of existence. Adam died as God told him he would. What did that look like? First thing he did was hide from God. He then went on to blame God for his situation. So why would a sinner want to be in heaven? It would be his worst nightmare.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Death means separation, not the end of existence. Adam died as God told him he would. What did that look like? First thing he did was hide from God. He then went on to blame God for his situation. So why would a sinner want to be in heaven? It would be his worst nightmare.

Interestingly enough, some still blame God for what they do.

 

[Aussie Pete]

I appreciate you're only restating the conventional reformist/ protestant/ evangelical view on the matter. I'll try to sum up what you've put forward, and please correct me if you think it's misrepresenting your theology there.

According to you, God's policies are, in brief:

1. In relation to the girl, the filthy little b!tch had her chance to repent but she blew it, now she's regrettably going to have to burn in hell forever.
2. In relation to the perp, he's said the sinner's prayer and cried with remorse, so I'll relieve him of all that guilt and let him on in, no more to pay.
3. Generally, I love you all, but if you don't accept Jesus, you can all go to hell, where you'll burn forever and a day.

Wow, I'd like to know how you got that out of Kris Jordan's post.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Interestingly enough, some still blame God for what they do.

Absolutely. Or their job/wife/kid/the government/police/society/the devil - anyone but themselves

 

[martymonster]

Absolutely. Or their job/wife/kid/the government/police/society/the devil - anyone but themselves

According to most Christians, God is not responsible for anything that happens in his universe. So, what is the most powerful being in the universe responsible for, exactly?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

According to most Christians, God is not responsible for anything that happens in his universe. So, what is the most powerful being in the universe responsible for, exactly?

Which Christians say this??? This is not true. All Christians believe God sent Jesus so that makes him responsible for sending Jesus. You are thereby proven wrong.

And what is more, God operates on the basis of right and wrong, not raw power.

 

[Aussie Pete]

According to most Christians, God is not responsible for anything that happens in his universe. So, what is the most powerful being in the universe responsible for, exactly?

Do you have children? Do you control every last aspect of their lives? Do you let them grow up or keep them in nappies until they snap and tell you where to go?

God did not create puppets. He created people with free will. I suppose if every aspect of your life was totally controlled, you'd be happy with that. What you wear, what you eat, where you work, who you marry, where you live. Is that what you want? Go live in North Korea. They will happy to arrange it for you.

 

[martymonster]

Which Christians say this??? This is not true. All Christians believe God sent Jesus so that makes him responsible for sending Jesus. You are thereby proven wrong.

And what is more, God operates on the basis of right and wrong, not raw power.

Exo 21:28 If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned, and his flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox shall be quit.
Exo 21:29 But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it hath been testified to his owner, and he hath not kept him in, but that he hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death.

In the above verse, the owner is held responsible for the actions of the ox, if he knew what it's tendencies were. The owner did not personally make or cause the ox to gore someone to death, but they are held responsible, because they are the owner. How much more is God responsible for his creation, than the owner of the ox. Firstly, he knows everything, and secondly, he actually made everything.

Does God hold man to higher standards than himself? Well, according to you he does!

 

[martymonster]

Do you have children? Do you control every last aspect of their lives? Do you let them grow up or keep them in nappies until they snap and tell you where to go?

God did not create puppets. He created people with free will. I suppose if every aspect of your life was totally controlled, you'd be happy with that. What you wear, what you eat, where you work, who you marry, where you live. Is that what you want? Go live in North Korea. They will happy to arrange it for you.

As a parent, I am morally and legally responsible for my children. If I was God though, apparently I wouldn't be responsible in way, shape or form.

Your response to me saying that Christians saying that God is not responsible, is to literally make another argument for how God not responsible. Amazing!

 

[FineLinen]

Which Christians say this??? This is not true. All Christians believe God sent Jesus so that makes him responsible for sending Jesus. You are thereby proven wrong.

And what is more, God operates on the basis of right and wrong, not raw power.

Not quite Dorothy.

God operates from the essence of Himself. His essence is Love, Spirit, Light & Reconciliation.

"He is the reconciliation (at-one-ment) for our sins, and NOT for our sins ONLY, but the sins of the WHOLE world."

 

[Aussie Pete]

As a parent, I am morally and legally responsible for my children. If I was God though, apparently I wouldn't be responsible in way, shape or form.

Your response to me saying that Christians saying that God is not responsible, is to literally make another argument for how God not responsible. Amazing!

You are not morally or legally responsible after they grow up. You may be surprised to know that God respects mankind and the free will that He gave us. God loves His creation. That includes mankind, who are inclined not to reciprocate. God has made it possible for all mankind to be reconciled to their Creator. That does not mean that all mankind will accept God's provision. God will not coerce people. He could. Then God would be violating man's free will - which of course means that it would no longer be free.

God has taken responsibility as far as possible without overriding mankind's free will. And mankind's freedom has a use-by date. There won't be any free will once the day of judgement comes.