Face book friend posted this. So, how's he wrong?

[FineLinen]

#13: Kris has posted...

"He did “find a way” to save all – the cross! But that doesn’t mean salvation is automatically imputed to everyone. Nowhere does Scripture teach universalism."

At the bottom of every post I make is a statement. That statement declares the Father in His mighty at-one-ment is thru the cross of the Master reaching as far as the curse is found.

Every last broken wreck of Adam 1 is indeed included. The scope of that inclusion =

Adam 1 = many "made sinners"

Last Adam = the identical many "made righteous."

That Kris, is God Equation.

“Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, To the praise of the glory of His grace , wherein He has made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace; Wherein He has abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He has purposed in Himself:That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who works all things after the counsel of His own will.”

 

[Der Alte]

#13: Kris has posted...
"He did “find a way” to save all – the cross! But that doesn’t mean salvation is automatically imputed to everyone. Nowhere does Scripture teach universalism."
At the bottom of every post I make is a statement. That statement declares the Father in His mighty at-one-ment is thru the cross of the Master reaching as far as the curse is found.
Every last broken wreck of Adam 1 is indeed included. The scope of that inclusion =
Adam 1 = many "made sinners"
Last Adam = the identical many "made righteous."
That Kris, is God Equation.

Problem is. There is not one single verse in the Bible where God, Himself, or Jesus, Himself, not an OT prophet, or a NT disciple, says this unequivocally. It is a patchwork of disparate out-of-context proof texts, which must be reinterpreted to say what UR-tes claim. "'Aionios' does not mean 'eternal' and 'kolasis' does not mean 'puinishment.'"

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Hi Shrewdmanager,

From the very beginning, God chose to save sinners because of His great love for us. He has provided everything necessary for our salvation in every aspect, including the revelation of Himself through creation and conscience, the drawing of us by the Holy Spirit, the sending of Jesus to pay our sin’s penalty so we could be forgiven and saved, and the provision of faith necessary for us to believe, because God is “not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance” (2 Peter 3:9b). Therefore, God is always ready to impart His saving grace to all those who would come to Him in genuine, sincere faith. However, we, as sinful people, (including the rape victim and her perp) also have a part in the salvation equation, because we have been given free will; we can only receive God’s gift of grace by choosing to turn away from our life of sin (Matthew 16:24) and personally placing our faith in Jesus for forgiveness and redemption (John 3:16, 1 John 1:9-10). That final step on our part is is, in essence, what completes the transaction of salvation.

Unless we, as sinners, willfully make the choice to accept Jesus’ free gift of salvation by faith, we will remain in our sinful condition, unaffected by Jesus' provision on the cross, with “a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries” that awaits the unredeemed in eternity (Hebrews 10:27). To assert otherwise is to deny the clear teaching of the entirety of Scripture on this subject, as well as on the subject of hell and the vast numbers of people who will end up there (Matthew 7:13-14).



The only path to sanctification is through faith in Jesus Christ for what He did for us on the cross. The word “sanctify” means “to set apart” or “to declare holy.” It is only in the moment of our salvation that we are set apart as belonging to God (sanctified), and declared holy and righteous before Him(justified), because Jesus’ righteousness is credited to us by (His) grace through (our) faith in Him.



Absolutely God is good enough to destroy sin and deliver the sinner cleansed. However, God clearly says in His Word that "that" does not happen in our lives outside of placing our faith in Jesus for our redemption and salvation. Outside of that, there is no salvation or deliverance from our sin.



You are incorrect about God's justice in the context of sinners and hell. God is gracious, loving, just, holy, and righteous. However, the most commonly misunderstood aspect of the combined, unfathomable attributes of God is that they all operate concurrently and in perfect harmony together at all times. Many people attempt to separate God’s attributes, and embrace only the ones which suit their own desires or beliefs to the exclusion of the rest. This causes them to create their own god rather than trusting the only true God for who He has revealed Himself to be. For example, when confronted with the reality of sin and hell, people like yourself often cite God’s loving, gracious nature as their defense against such things, as if God's love would compel Him to overlook or accept sin. The problem with this skewed perception of God is that, because He is holy, just, and righteous, He cannot close his eyes to sin; otherwise, He would not remain holy, just and righteous. One attribute of God does not, nor can it, cancel out or supersede any other attribute; instead they must function together and in perfect harmony at all times.

Therefore, because of God’s great love for us, because His holiness demands perfection, because His justice demands that sin be punished, and because His righteousness requires justice and judgment to be rendered, God sent His own Son, Jesus Christ, to this earth to meet and satisfy all His righteous requirements on our behalf through His own sinless life and atoning death. This was the only way to reconcile a sinful human race to a holy, perfect God without violating any of His nature or attributes. This is what makes it possible for sinful man to be saved. Therefore, those who place their faith and trust in Jesus, believing that He satisfied the debt of their sin in full, will receive forgiveness and eternal life. Those who reject Jesus’ atoning sacrifice will, as a result, reap the full measure of God’s righteous judgment, and suffer eternal death apart from Him because they rejected the only means of forgiveness and salvation available to them.

That is not "Kris' Theology." That is God's theology and truth laid out for us in His Written Word.

So your position Kris is essentially that man is more powerful than God? God's will (1 Tim 2:4 - - 'thelei') for Salvation (Yahushua) to be the Aleph-Tav/Alpha-Omega (>9,000 scriptural occurrences) is frustrated by the simple act of one solitary individual saying 'Nyet'? No matter that the person may be ignorant/ lacking in knowledge (Hos 4:6), blinded by the devil (2 Cor 4:4), addicted/ enslaved to sin (Jn 8:34), or simply unable to bear the burdens foist on him by pseudo-religious nutjobs (Luke 11:46), their 'free will' choice overcomes the power of the cross, and condemns them to an eternity in hell. Boffo!

So the devil wins, the light is overcome by the darkness, and heaven is built for an elect remnant on the writhing mound of the damned. Just a big toxic pyramid scheme is it?

 

[FineLinen]

Kris Jordan your response to #11 =

"Death will be destroyed whereby nobody will ever die again. At the White Throne Judgment, sinner’s bodies will be raised from the dead and transformed into eternal bodies equipped for the torment they will endure, yet never die from. Ever."

Search = "eternal bodies"

Your search query has yielded no results. Please modify your search & try again.

There is no such animal in the Father of all fathers Barnyard!

Our God and Dearest Daddy is alone eternal/aidios.

"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. -Rom. 1:20-"

1. 
   
   
2. Verses, please, so I know which ones your speaking of, in context.

The question does not require a context. You will find this expression in numbers of verses. In Hebrew the term is adah and can be found in Psl. 48:11 and means in perpetuity.

On that O.T. foundation, for ever & ever continues in numerous passages e.g. Phil. 4:10 and 2 Tm. 4: 18 among them. In each, forever & ever is aiōn to aiōn.

Do you know Kris, that aiōn is NOT aidios and is rooted in ages, or time periods of various lengths. They are NOT aidios!

 

[Der Alte]

...

So your position Kris is essentially that man is more powerful than God? God's will (1 Tim 2:4 - - 'thelei') for Salvation (Yahushua) to be the Aleph-Tav/Alpha-Omega (>9,000 scriptural occurrences) is frustrated by the simple act of one solitary individual saying 'Nyet'? No matter that the person may be ignorant/ lacking in knowledge (Hos 4:6), blinded by the devil (2 Cor 4:4), addicted/ enslaved to sin (Jn 8:34), or simply unable to bear the burdens foist on him by pseudo-religious nutjobs (Luke 11:46), their 'free will' choice overcomes the power of the cross, and condemns them to an eternity in hell. Boffo!
So the devil wins, the light is overcome by the darkness, and heaven is built for an elect remnant on the writhing mound of the damned. Just a big toxic pyramid scheme is it?

..

The typical heterodox UR handful of out-of-context proof texts.
About God's will not getting done. Note this passage from Jeremiah. God said “I have caused to cleave” That word is הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi. It is in the perfect or completed sense. God’s express will, clearly stated, for the whole house of Israel and Judah, to cling to God as a belt clings to a man’s waist. It was done, finished, completed, in God’s sight, and, according to some arguments, nothing man can do will cause God’s will to not be done. But they, Israel and Judah, would not hear and obey, their will, vs. God’s will, So God destroyed them, vs. 14.
…..This passage very much speaks to God’s sovereign will, and man’s free will and agency. God stated very clearly what His will was, in terms that cannot be misunderstood. But, because the Israelites and Judeans would not hear, and obey, God destroyed them, instead of them being unto God, “for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory, vs. 10.”

Jer 13:1 Thus saith the LORD unto me, Go and get thee a linen girdle, and put it upon thy loins, and put it not in water.
2 So I got a girdle according to the word of the LORD, and put it on my loins.
3 And the word of the LORD came unto me the second time, saying,
4 Take the girdle that thou hast got, which is upon thy loins, and arise, go to Euphrates, and hide it there in a hole of the rock.
5 So I went, and hid it by Euphrates, as the LORD commanded me.
6 And it came to pass after many days, that the LORD said unto me, Arise, go to Euphrates, and take the girdle from thence, which I commanded thee to hide there.
7 Then I went to Euphrates, and digged, and took the girdle from the place where I had hid it: and, behold, the girdle was marred, it was profitable for nothing.
8 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
9 Thus saith the LORD, After this manner will I mar the pride of Judah, and the great pride of Jerusalem.
10 This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.
11 For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave [הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi] unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.
· · ·
14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.​

Note, verse 14, God said He will NOT have pity, will NOT spare, and will NOT have mercy but destroy them.

 

[FineLinen]

Hi Finelinen,

1. This verse in Timothy speaks of God’s desire for all men to be saved. It does not state all men will be saved. If it did, it would be a complete contradiction of Jesus’ words in Matthew 7:13-14 which state, “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and [d]difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.”

Hi there Kris Jordan: This verse goes a mite further than mere desire!

Our God willeth all mankind to be saved. The koine is thelo. Knowing the God of Glory is the A. & F. one can rest assured His will shall be consummated in every little detail!

However

His thelo will not only bring every last broken sinner to salvation, His thelo shall make every lost one righteous.

The God equation =

"many made sinners" = "many made righteous."

 

[Der Alte]

Do you know Kris, that aiōn is NOT aidios and is rooted in ages, or time periods of various lengths. They are NOT aidios!

People should not be misled by the false teachings of heterodox religious groups.
Greek has always been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who better than the native Greek speaking EOB translators know the correct meaning of, e.g. “aionios” and “kolasis?”
Note that the EOB shows Paul using “aionios” and “aidios” as synonyms, see Rom 1:20 and 1 Tim 1:17, below.

The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96
Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them saying ‘Amen. I tell you: a much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [[ones on the left]] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιονιον/kolasin aiōnion] but the righteous into eternal life.
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly seen. They perceived through created things, even his everlasting [τε αιδιος/te aidios] power and divinity.
1 Timothy 1:17 Now, to the eternal [των αιωνων/tōn aiōnōn] King. immortal. invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory unto ages of ages. Amen.
https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/books/original/18204/18204-New-Testament-(The-Eastern-Greek-Orthodox-Bible).pdf​

The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96 can be D/L at the link above. If someone chooses to consult the EOB version I suggest they read the preface which summarizes the extensive Greek scholarship supporting the EOB translation.

 

[FreeinChrist]

ADVISOR HAT

There is too much snark in this thread. It is closed.

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