Extra ecclesia...

[JimR-OCDS]

Of course, its a narrow road

But not hopeless if you're not Catholic.

Jim

 

[The Grouch]

But not hopeless if you're not Catholic.

Jim

Hope truely lasts

 

[Rhamiel]

It was a tap dance trying to uphold a teaching of which they new was not correct.

The Church can not place limits on God's mercy, of which they did in the past by stating there was
no salvation outside the Institutional Catholic Church. There was no room for Protestants, Jews and Muslims to be saved, because they did not belong to the Catholic Church and were told it was the one true Church of which they must belong to be saved and they rejected it.

As we have seen from the Catechism, they now explain this in a way which doesn't put God into a corner where only man can decide who is saved.

The Church evolves, if she didn't, she'd still be hanging heretics.

Jim

are you trying to place limits on the power of God?
do you think He is unable to bring His elect into visible union with His Church? that seems to be extreamly limiting, making God very weak

and it is not "because they did not belong to the Catholic Church" it is because they do not have faith in God but rather hold to error, rejecting the truth in favor of error

 

[The Grouch]

"a certain man said to him: Lord, are they few that are saved? But he said to them: Strive to enter by the narrow gate; for many, I say to you, shall seek to enter, and shall not be able"

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves"

 

[Rhamiel]

"a certain man said to him: Lord, are they few that are saved? But he said to them: Strive to enter by the narrow gate; for many, I say to you, shall seek to enter, and shall not be able"

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves"

but the person asked about those who would be saved, why would Jesus bring up false prophets in that context?

unless.... following a false prophet is detrimental to your salvation?
but that message is so un-ecumenical

anything that goes against the spirit of this age is hated by so many people
we live in an age where tolerance is one of the few remaining virtues
to the point where it is not even questioned if it is a virtue at all

 

[The Grouch]

but the person asked about those who would be saved, why would Jesus bring up false prophets in that context?

unless.... following a false prophet is detrimental to your salvation?
but that message is so un-ecumenical

anything that goes against the spirit of this age is hated by so many people
we live in an age where tolerance is one of the few remaining virtues
to the point where it is not even questioned if it is a virtue at all

Wow that is so profound and very true

 

[concretecamper]

Does everyone realize that by liberally interpreting the word "can" in the CCC (in the context we are discussing) pagans are afford a better chance at salvation than protestants.

 

[The Grouch]

Does everyone realize that by liberally interpreting the word "can" in the CCC (in the context we are discussing) pagans are afford a better chance at salvation than protestants.

At least the unbaptized i would say as they have not recieved the grace that it bestows and rejected it

*rejected seems to be a strong word in this context but i cant think of a better word to discribe it

 

[prodromos]

but there are other sheep's too.

My grammar Nazi detection circuit just overloaded

 

[The Grouch]

My grammar Nazi detection circuit just overloaded

Deep breaths and count to 10... it happens as long as the message is understood

 

[Meowzltov]

And yet the Catechism itself says those through no fault of their own, can be saved outside of the Church.

I'm not so sure they are being saved outside the church. It all depends on how you define the church. They are still saved by the grace of God, because of Christ's atoning sacrifice. One COULD argue that makes them part of the Body. They simply are unaware of it.

 

[The Grouch]

I'm not so sure they are being saved outside the church. It all depends on how you define the church. They are still saved by the grace of God, because of Christ's atoning sacrifice. One COULD argue that makes them part of the Body. They simply are unaware of it.

Yes which brings us full circle back to stabat's "we do not know where the church is not"