Exodus 35:1-3

James Is Back

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Exodus 35:1-3

Sabbath Regulations:

1.Then Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said to them, “These are the words which the Lord has commanded you to do:
2.Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death.
3.You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”

I'd like for the Sabbath keepers to tell me if they follow the above regulations for the Sabbath to the letter? Because if you are guilty of breaking even a small part of the law and the Sabbath is part of the law then you are guilty of breaking the whole law.
 

SAAN

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Im not a Sabbath keeper, but that kindle no fire is taken greatly out of context and many times in arrogant ignorance by many Christians, when they start saying stupid things like your water heater, lighting a candle, or driving your car is breaking the Sabbath.

The whole point of the command not to kindle a fire was that it was a great deal of work to make a fire and the fire itself was used to do work. If the command is to rest from working, they would not kindle a fire that they need in order to do work, so they can rest.
 
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Im not a Sabbath keeper, but that kindle no fire is taken greatly out of context and many times in arrogant ignorance by many Christians, when they start saying stupid things like your water heater, lighting a candle, or driving your car is breaking the Sabbath.

The whole point of the command not to kindle a fire was that it was a great deal of work to make a fire and the fire itself was used to do work. If the command is to rest from working, they would not kindle a fire that they need in order to do work, so they can rest.
Level of effort has nothing to do with the command.

You car of pick up is the beast of burden mentioned in Ex 20:8-11. It is required by the commandment to be parked on the Sabbath.
 
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Look Up

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Exodus 35:1-3

Sabbath Regulations:

1.Then Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said to them, “These are the words which the Lord has commanded you to do:
2.Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death.
3.You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”

I'd like for the Sabbath keepers to tell me if they follow the above regulations for the Sabbath to the letter? Because if you are guilty of breaking even a small part of the law and the Sabbath is part of the law then you are guilty of breaking the whole law.

The provocative conclusion to the above quote/OP surely draws a line in the sand which I suspect (unfortunately not knowing you, James is Back) is intended as a stimulant to claims that the Christian church is no longer under the Mosaic covenant, but the New such that something has changed. What is then perhaps not realized by some readers of this thread is that the role of the Sabbath remains at least an open question--open unless answered elsewhere ... such as on this Sabbath and the Law forum.

I am not much a student of this Sabbath and the Law forum, but have some sense of certain historical positions within the church addressing the role of the Sabbath in the New Covenant, some divisive (leaving aside for the time being who is being divisive against whom).

And I have my own opinion, tentative as it probably must remain, for in my understanding, the New Testament (along with any foreshadowing and antecedent theology of the OT) is positively ambivalent about the issue however stunningly serious the above quote with its Mosaic backing (e.g., Numbers 15) may be. Hence I think in part the divergence of position evident in the history of the church even if there is more to it.

Paul for example in discussing divergent celebration of days within the church (Rom. 14) bypasses an opportunity there to hammer home the point in the above quote/OP regarding the Sabbath (if anything, his conclusions seem contrary). And he bypasses similar opportunities in the pastorals where one might reasonably expect such a point to be made. The same is true for the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews, one that discusses the topic of the Sabbath at some length, but never in a way as to encourage the conclusion of the above quote/OP with respect to the Sabbath. Nor do hints of Christian assembly on the first day of the week (rather than 7th) come with any allusion to Sabbath regulation. Nor, strangely, is the Sabbath regulation anywhere repeated in the NT the way the other members of the Decalogue are, that is save in Jesus' encounters with Jewish leadership before the cross, that is before the implications of Jesus' coming and cross work were fully mapped out and where the context is essentially and effectively the Mosaic covenant.

Again, not that the conclusions of the OP are a bad thing either (not to mention allusion to James 2:10 wrt covenant breaking); the Sabbath, Jesus insists, was made for man, for his benefit. And has the prophet's implicit exhortation to delight in the Sabbath as unto the Lord (Isa. 58) been annulled? Heaven forbid! And human beings still need physical rest. But then why the NT ambivalence and lack of specificity on the question?

One of the few places it seems one can turn is to broader conclusions and attendant hints about the relationship between the Mosaic and new covenants--another classically divisive issue, and a complex one. What is the role of the Mosaic law in the New covenant (and New Testament)? Having addressed slices of such questions on these forums elsewhere and having passed my present time and energy limitations, I shall bypass further elaboration here at least for the moment. No doubt others will express their own, often different views.
 
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Soyeong

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Exodus 35:1-3

Sabbath Regulations:

1.Then Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said to them, “These are the words which the Lord has commanded you to do:
2.Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death.
3.You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”

I'd like for the Sabbath keepers to tell me if they follow the above regulations for the Sabbath to the letter?

The "you" can refer to Israel or to God's chosen people and Gentiles qualify as both.

Because if you are guilty of breaking even a small part of the law and the Sabbath is part of the law then you are guilty of breaking the whole law.

The result of being guilty of breaking part of the law and the whole law is that we won't be justified by it and the penalty is death. Jesus paid the penalty for our transgression of the law and the law was never given to us so that we could become justified by keeping it. Sin is still a serious offense against God and it needs to be repented of and forgiven.
 
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Soyeong

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Level of effort has nothing to do with the command.

You car of pick up is the beast of burden mentioned in Ex 20:8-11. It is required by the commandment to be parked on the Sabbath.

You'd make an excellent Pharisee.
 
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VictorC

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The "you" can refer to Israel or to God's chosen people and Gentiles qualify as both.
This is your answer to a text that specifies the children of Israel as "you". Rendering an opinion in obvious conflict with what Moses quoted God as telling him shows that you just don't care what God actually said.
 
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Soyeong

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This is your answer to a text that specifies the children of Israel as "you". Rendering an opinion in obvious conflict with what Moses quoted God as telling him shows that you just don't care what God actually said.

Psychoanalysis by non-experts who've never met me is always appreciated. /eyeroll

By faith we are children of Abraham and citizens of the commonwealth of Israel. As obedient children of God, we are still expected to have a righteous and holy conduct, which means following God's instructions for that in His law.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Psychoanalysis by non-experts who've never met me is always appreciated. /eyeroll

By faith we are children of Abraham and citizens of the commonwealth of Israel. As obedient children of God, we are still expected to have a righteous and holy conduct, which means following God's instructions for that in His law.

If so, where is the Temple and where is the Levitical priesthood, both of which are absolutely essential for obedience to God's instructions in His law?
 
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Soyeong

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If so, where is the Temple and where is the Levitical priesthood, both of which are absolutely essential for obedience to God's instructions in His law?

The Temple is destroyed and we have a superior mediator and sacrifice.
 
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bbbbbbb

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The Temple is destroyed and we have a superior mediator and sacrifice.

Precisely. Therefore you are entirely guilty of setting aside the explicit instructions of God's law, even though you may arbitrarily choose to follow your own version of some of them.
 
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Soyeong

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Precisely. Therefore you are entirely guilty of setting aside the explicit instructions of God's law, even though you may arbitrarily choose to follow your own version of some of them.

Laws in regard to Temple worship only apply and only can be followed when there is a Temple. Please stop with the psychoanalysis until you become a trained professional and we've met.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Laws in regard to Temple worship only apply and only can be followed when there is a Temple. Please stop with the psychoanalysis until you become a trained professional and we've met.

Just stating the obvious - you can neither obey the law nor can you claim to obey the law.
 
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Soyeong

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Just stating the obvious - you can neither obey the law nor can you claim to obey the law.

The obvious is that laws in regard to Temple worship don't apply when there is no Temple. This in no way means that other laws can't be followed.
 
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Exodus 35:1-3

Sabbath Regulations:

1.Then Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said to them, “These are the words which the Lord has commanded you to do:
2.Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death.
3.You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”

I'd like for the Sabbath keepers to tell me if they follow the above regulations for the Sabbath to the letter? Because if you are guilty of breaking even a small part of the law and the Sabbath is part of the law then you are guilty of breaking the whole law.
What about you? Do you follow the same regulation? Are you not then in the same boat?
 
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bbbbbbb

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The obvious is that laws in regard to Temple worship don't apply when there is no Temple. This in no way means that other laws can't be followed.

Quite so. Therefore, it is impossible for one to think that one obeys the law as given in the Old Testament.
 
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Soyeong

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Quite so. Therefore, it is impossible for one to think that one obeys the law as given in the Old Testament.

No one could follow all 613 laws, not even Jesus, because some of them only applied to men and some only applied to women. This doesn't mean that Jesus didn't obey the law as given. Similarly, many laws we only for priests to follow, but that didn't mean that Israelites who weren't priests didn't follow the law.
 
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bbbbbbb

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No one could follow all 613 laws, not even Jesus, because some of them only applied to men and some only applied to women. This doesn't mean that Jesus didn't obey the law as given. Similarly, many laws we only for priests to follow, but that didn't mean that Israelites who weren't priests didn't follow the law.

So, do you think God requires Gentiles who are not Israelites to follow the law?
 
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Soyeong

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So, do you think God requires Gentiles who are not Israelites to follow the law?

According to Ephesians 2:12 and Ephesians 2:19, Gentiles are by faith citizens of the commonwealth of Israel. Gentiles are told to practice righteousness (1 John 3:10) and have a holy conduct (1 Peter 1:13-16) and it is the law that tells us how to do that. Sin is defined as the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4), the law gives us knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20), without the law we wouldn't even know what sin was (Romans 7:7), and Gentiles are not to have a sinful conduct (Romans 6:15), so again Gentiles should act according to what the law instructs.
 
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