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Exodus 35:1-3

Soyeong

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Ephesians 2:12 says no such thing as Gentiles becoming citizens of the commonwealth of Israel. Your understanding of the law is off.

Indeed, verse 12 does not say Gentiles becoming citizens of the commonwealth of Israel, that's in verse 19. Verse 12 lists things that were once true and verse 12 lists the opposite in contrast of things that are now true. They were once alienated from the commonwealth of Israel (verse 12) and now they are citizens (verse 19).
 
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Indeed, verse 12 does not say Gentiles becoming citizens of the commonwealth of Israel, that's in verse 19. Verse 12 lists things that were once true and verse 12 lists the opposite in contrast of things that are now true. They were once alienated from the commonwealth of Israel (verse 12) and now they are citizens (verse 19).
No it is not there either. Christians are fellow citizens with the saints and not Israel.
 
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Soyeong

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No it is not there either. Christians are fellow citizens with the saints and not Israel.

The saints are citizens of Israel and becoming fellow citizens with them means likewise becoming a citizen of Israel.
 
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Have you heard about the false brethren who snuck in?

Either (1) your intended application of Gal. 2:4 ("freedom we have in Christ"?) to the context of my post (to which your above quote replies) is too veiled or ambiguous for more than my vague understanding or (2) the allusion is a technical term for some group or movement--say contemporary--of which I have not "heard"--unless possibly such entity is better known by another appellation.
 
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bugkiller

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Hearing implies obeying. It would do you no good to be in the same room as Jesus when he was giving instructions if you don't obey them.
Hearing does not obligate anyone to a defunct covenant. Jesus nor anyone else in the NT says keep the Sabbath.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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The saints are citizens of Israel and becoming fellow citizens with them means likewise becoming a citizen of Israel.
All citizens of Israel are not saints. That is of the natural born citizens are very wicked. Jesus even says they are sons of the devil their father.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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Either (1) your intended application of Gal. 2:4 ("freedom we have in Christ"?) to the context of my post (to which your above quote replies) is too veiled or ambiguous for more than my vague understanding or (2) the allusion is a technical term for some group or movement--say contemporary--of which I have not "heard"--unless possibly such entity is better known by another appellation.
I think these false brethren are also those demanding Christians things they had no authority to demand. Acts 15

bugkiller
 
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Soyeong

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Hearing does not obligate anyone to a defunct covenant.

I never said it did. God's standard of a righteous and holy conduct exist independently of any contract to obey it. Someone who was a member of the Old Covenant who committed murder would be in violation of both their covenant and of God's righteous and holy standard of conduct. Someone who are not a member of the Old Covenant who committed murder would not be in violation of that contract, but would still be in violation of God's righteous and holy standard, so even if God had made no covenants with us, it would still be good to have a righteous and holy conduct in accordance with God's righteous and holy standard. Jesus was perfectly in obedience to God's holy and righteous standard and if we hear his words, then we should follow his example.

Jesus nor anyone else in the NT says keep the Sabbath.
bugkiller

We are commanded to love the Lord our God with all of our heart, soul, strength, and mind and love our neighbor as ourselves. Jesus said that the rest of the laws hang on those two commands, so they are examples of how we are to express our love. The law in God's instruction for how to live righteously, so when the NT says we should practice righteousness, that includes keeping the Sabbath. When Paul said that all Scripture is useful for training in righteousness, that again included keeping the Sabbath. When he said that it equips us to do every good work and that we are created in Christ to do good works, that includes the Sabbath.

As followers of God, it should be a given that we should follow His commands, and as followers of Jesus, it should be a given that we should imitate his example of obedience, so I see no good reason to think that Jesus or any of the NT authors thought that only the commands they repeated were important to keep. Throughout most of the OT, the Israelites were going astray and God consistently wanted them to turn their hearts back to Him and keep His commands. It's almost as if God had an expectation for how His chosen people should behave. The problem was not with the Old Covenant, but with their disobedience. So God solved the problem by making a New Covenant where He would write His instructions on our hearts, he send Jesus to set us free from disobedience to His instructions, and He sent the Spirit to lead us in obedience to His instructions. So now that we are counted among God's chosen people, we should live in obedience to God's instructions. It does not follow at all from this that God would suddenly stop caring whether His chosen people followed His instructions.
 
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Soyeong

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All citizens of Israel are not saints. That is of the natural born citizens are very wicked. Jesus even says they are sons of the devil their father.

bugkiller

Indeed, not all natural born citizens are very wicked and sons of the devil either.
 
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Soyeong

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However, we see that they explicitly exempted Gentiles from God's commandment of circumcision.

There is no command in the Torah that requires all Gentiles to become circumcised, so they ruled against a man made requirement and upheld the Torah.
 
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Im not a Sabbath keeper, but that kindle no fire is taken greatly out of context and many times in arrogant ignorance by many Christians, when they start saying stupid things like your water heater, lighting a candle, or driving your car is breaking the Sabbath.

The whole point of the command not to kindle a fire was that it was a great deal of work to make a fire and the fire itself was used to do work. If the command is to rest from working, they would not kindle a fire that they need in order to do work, so they can rest.

The scripture says not to start a fire on the Sabbath. Why do you feel a need to modify that?
 
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Soyeong

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The scripture says not to start a fire on the Sabbath. Why do you feel a need to modify that?

Was the intent behind the command against fires or against a particular activity that involved work and was often needed to do further work, such as cooking?
 
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Was the intent behind the command against fires or against a particular activity that involved work and was often needed to do further work, such as cooking?

The entire command is:

Exo 35:2-3 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day you
shall have a holy sabbath of solemn rest to the LORD; whoever does
any work on it shall be put to death; you shall kindle no fire in all your
habitations on the sabbath day.


Apparently, making a fire was considered work.

Today, Orthodox Jews will not turn on an electric light or an electric stove because it is the modern replacement of the ancient fire. So, if you have a bathroom without a window, turn the light on before the Sabbath and don't turn it off until after the sabbath. (I have a friend who irritated her relatives in a kibbutz in Israel because she turned off the light on the bathroom.)
 
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bbbbbbb

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There is no command in the Torah that requires all Gentiles to become circumcised, so they ruled against a man made requirement and upheld the Torah.

Exactly which commands in the Torah are part and parcel with the covenant God made with the Gentiles on Mount Sinai?
 
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