Ex-Con Hovind released from the pokey.

[Jan Volkes]

Not so smart Americans don't stand much of a chance when billionaires conspire against them do they?
Setting up bogus ID peer review magazines to con the people into believing there are such things is free speech gone mad.

 

[RickG]

Do you know a way to get more people to write academic papers?

You may be surprised how many creation science journals there are today. So scientists are writing and being peer reviewed.
http://nwcreation.net/journalcreation.html

Ask them why don't they submit their work to the mainstream scientific community. Their peer review lacks academic excellence. True peer review is reviewed by experts is the specific field of the submitted research. Very little of their published work is done by actual people who are experts in the research field topic, much less reviewed by actual experts in those fields. And I have yet to see any of their papers present any "original" research with actual original data.

 

[AV1611VET]

I assume you frequent a doctor for checkups or if are sick? Next time you do, why don't you ask them what they think about the theory of evolution ...

I did: 600

 

[RickG]

That may be in some areas, but even there, I'll bet that more is going on.

Even not teaching evolution directly, how many references would there be to the ancient age of the earth and universe, and where plants and animals changed and evolved over time to become us?

(Emphasis in bold)
There is not a single field of "physical" science that does not contribute to ToE. Are you suggesting that all science should be removed from the education system?

Throwing evolution at kids as a fact of nature, like the periodic table, is doing a disservice to education.

If evolution is not a fact of nature, then why do we not see contradicting evidence published in the scientific literature? What is taught in the education system is what the scientific evidence reveals and is documented in the scientific literature. If it can be shown that ToE is incorrect, it would be removed from the classroom.

 

[JacksBratt]

Let me set the record straight about the charges that sent Kent Hovind and his wife to prison. I have read the actual court transcripts of Kent's case. Some context, I attended college with Kent. We were best friends back in the early 70's. I know in the hater's minds out there that discredits anything else I say but I am going to say it anyway.

Kent was convicted of violating structuring laws which were designed to catch drug dealers and money launderers. The IRS recently apologized for jailing innocent citizens like Kent who were simply withdrawing their own money out of the bank. In Kent's case it was to meet payroll and other expenses. There are hundreds of people like Kent mostly small business people who are sitting in prison because of this law that has been misapplied to normally law abiding citizens. He was not convicted of tax evasion. All of Kent's employees were independent contractors and responsible for paying their own taxes. The Dinosaur Adventurer land property along with his home which also contained the ministry offices was owned by the ministry not Kent.

On a personal note. Kent did not begin this ministry to make lots of money. This assessment is from being a college roommate and observing his life over the past forty years. Kent is not materialistic. He wears the same four of five suits he had in college. He buys old cars and fixes them up himself. He is the quintessential penny pincher. He and his wife Jo live very frugally. The majority of the money his ministry takes in is used for building projects, producing videos and other materials which are not copyrighted. I know Kent's haters will not believe a word of this but it is the absolute truth!

Let me also add that I do not endorse everything Kent teachers about creationism and other topics but I defend his right to do it. It saddens me about the controversy over his doctorate. I earned a legitimate PhD. and it grieves me that Kent has to continually answer questions about where he earned his degree. Kent could have earned an accredited doctorate but like many others took the easier cheaper route. BTW he did complete actual courses and did not simply send in money for his diploma.

Finally, let me say having spent thousands of hours with Kent and his wife Jo they are two of the most gracious and kind people in the world. Kent would give you the shirt off his back. When we were in college and both working at General Motors Truck and Coach, when he saw a car broke down on the side of the road he would always stop to help, even if it meant we would be late for an appointment. I realize my words will fall on deaf ears to those who have already made up their mind about Kent. The sad thing is their opinions are based on skewed information found on the internet by those who are biased against creationism and have no firsthand knowledge of the facts surrounded Kent's character, his ministry or his conviction. I just wanted to set the record straight on a few things that I believe have been distorted and misrepresented!

Thank you so much for clearing up any misconceptions that any of us here had of Kent.
Great post.

 

[JacksBratt]

He has to the chance to defend himself against the charges and that didn't go over all too well.

I thought the charges were dismissed. Were they not?

The way I see it is that there is a lot of very wealthy people that pay good accountants to do exactly what Kent was doing, and worse. They pay these accountants to find loop holes and then litigate with the IRS anytime they are flagged. Many are doing illegal things but it would cost the close to bankrupt US government too much to go after them. It's a cost versus return thing......

This procedure, that Kent used, is not new. It is carried out by thousands of big businesses. Loop holes are huge cash cows. Even if this is a loop hole or just a guppy in a big pond that the IRS could go after.

So, look past your "hate" for the guy. He is a creationist, and a good one. I know discrediting him would be a great feather in you cap but...... let it go. With that post by Dr. Shanlian nothing should be too confusing for you.

Kent is a very intelligent, wise, upstanding guy that used the revenue laws of the states to help him stretch his dollars to support God's work. Then, their suit against him lead to hundreds more being lead to Christ and put Kent and his ministry in the news where curious people can now find the truth that they are looking for.

 

[lasthero]

So, look past your "hate" for the guy. He is a creationist, and a good one.

No, he is not. Aside from the fact that he's been shown to be straight up LYING on a few occasions and many of the things he's claimed are just demonstrably wrong, he's not even that good at what he does. People like Ken Ham and Ray Comfort are far more successful than he ever was. Again, strangely, neither of them have wound up in prison. Funny, that.

Kent is a very intelligent

I'll very much dispute this. I've read the man's thesis, what he submitted for his doctorate. It was easily one of the worst written pieces of tripe I've ever had the misfortune of laying my eyes on. I say this as a long-term writer, someone who writes every day and studies it every day. It's riddled with spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and downright bad writing - he starts the thesis off with 'Hello, my name is Kent Hovind', for crying out loud, when his name is already on the front page of the thesis. It wouldn't pass muster in anything beyong the sixth grade level, and this is what he submitted for his doctorate.

 

[Armoured]

I thought the charges were dismissed. Were they not?

If they were, why's he been in prison all this time?

 

[JacksBratt]

If they were, why's he been in prison all this time?

They were dismissed in May 2015, after he served the 10 years

 

[Loudmouth]

Thank you so much for clearing up any misconceptions that any of us here had of Kent.
Great post.

His posts were full of misconceptions. Nice to have yet another example of a creationist who can't tell fake from true.

 

[Loudmouth]

They were dismissed in May 2015, after he served the 10 years

No, they weren't. The charges he was sentenced for were never dismissed.

 

[Armoured]

They were dismissed in May 2015, after he served the 10 years

Uh-huh, got a citation?

 

[Loudmouth]

I thought the charges were dismissed. Were they not?

The way I see it is that there is a lot of very wealthy people that pay good accountants to do exactly what Kent was doing, and worse.

What good accountants do is find loopholes in tax law to reduce the amount of tax owed on tax returns. Good accountants don't fail to file any tax returns, or pay any taxes on payroll. Those are flat out crimes. The Hovind's broke the law, period.

 

[Willtor]

I thought the charges were dismissed. Were they not?

They were not. He's being let out because he's served his sentence.

The way I see it is that there is a lot of very wealthy people that pay good accountants to do exactly what Kent was doing, and worse. They pay these accountants to find loop holes and then litigate with the IRS anytime they are flagged. Many are doing illegal things but it would cost the close to bankrupt US government too much to go after them. It's a cost versus return thing......

This procedure, that Kent used, is not new. It is carried out by thousands of big businesses. Loop holes are huge cash cows. Even if this is a loop hole or just a guppy in a big pond that the IRS could go after.

It doesn't do Kent Hovind a service to compare his sketchy books to the sketchy books of these companies that use tax loopholes. What it suggests is that if he'd had enough money, like these corporations, he would have created some loopholes, like these corporations, that gave him an out. As it was, he didn't have the resources to bend the system to his benefit and our expense. And even then, he still would have had to _at least_ file returns, even if he didn't have to pay anything.

So, look past your "hate" for the guy. He is a creationist, and a good one. I know discrediting him would be a great feather in you cap but...... let it go. With that post by Dr. Shanlian nothing should be too confusing for you.

Kent is a very intelligent, wise, upstanding guy that used the revenue laws of the states to help him stretch his dollars to support God's work. Then, their suit against him lead to hundreds more being lead to Christ and put Kent and his ministry in the news where curious people can now find the truth that they are looking for.

Nobody who isn't a creationist thinks his work is legitimate. But forget about non-creationists. Even the other creationist orgs think his work is fraudulent. That's pretty bad.

 

[Subduction Zone]

They were dismissed in May 2015, after he served the 10 years

No, there were additional charges that they tried to put on Hovind. He was found guilty of one of those charges, though a judge overturned that finding. The rest of the charges could be filed again but it looks like they are letting him go for now.

He was charged because even after he lost he brought illegal harassing lawsuits against the government to make it more difficult to sell his property. They still could charge him again on that crime. He was tried but that ended up in a hung jury and it seemed that there was only one or at the most two jurors that would not vote "guilty". Who knows, they might go after Eric too this time since, if I recall correctly, he did manage to buy some of those properties back. One of the results of Kent's lawsuits could have been a lowering of the value of those properties. The prosecution may be just making sure that they have all of their facts right before Kent gets charged again.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Nobody who isn't a creationist thinks his work is legitimate. But forget about non-creationists. Even the other creationist orgs think his work is fraudulent. That's pretty bad.

Sounds like Ron Wyatt. Even AiG and ICR will tell you that his work on Noah's Ark was fraudulent.

 

[Willtor]

Sounds like Ron Wyatt. Even AiG and ICR will tell you that his work on Noah's Ark was fraudulent.

Oh, yeah. In fact, this started with AiG writing a counter point to Hovind's arguments that did everything but name Hovind explicitly:

Arguments we think creationists should not use

Hovind objected to the list, naturally, and the response was:

Maintaining Creationist Integrity (a response to Kent Hovind)

Even with the kid-gloves they put on, one really feels embarrassed on behalf of Mr. Hovind.

 

[RickG]

Sounds like Ron Wyatt. Even AiG and ICR will tell you that his work on Noah's Ark was fraudulent.

You know, it is amazing that they would do that, yet let all the incredibly bad science, misrepresentations, quote mines, etc., still stand. That type of behavior is exactly what the bible describes as unacceptable.

 

[Loudmouth]

Sounds like Ron Wyatt. Even AiG and ICR will tell you that his work on Noah's Ark was fraudulent.

They may share, or have shared in the case of Wyatt, the same psychological problems.

I can't cover most of what I discovered in the several days of investigative calls all over this country. I'll try to put all that in an audio tape complete with the details of how to get this information for yourself. I will tell you enough here to hopefully convince you WAR is a Christian con game. Ron Wyatt is either very psychologically ill or one of the greatest liars I have ever come across.

One of the individuals who I interviewed, who lost approximately 30,000 thousand dollars to Ron Wyatt, went to Israel with him, supposedly to see some of these sights and record them on film. An assignment editor of a major television station in Nasheville went with them. Not only did this individual not see any of these incredible discoveries, but his wife was told by one of Ron Wyatt's sons that the chariot wheels that Ron supposedly discovered in the Gulf of Aqaba were planted there by Ron. Mr. Wyatt gave this couple some coins which he supposedly found at the Ark of the Covenant site. Again, one of Wyatt's sons informed the wife that Wyatt bought those coins. Gentle, soft-spoken Ron verbally abused an Arab car rental agent when the agent told Mr. Wyatt that his son was to young to drive the vehicle.
http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew7/D7-AGreatChristianScam.html
​

Ron Wyatt may be another example of a con man who fell for his own con.

 

[RickG]

Oh, yeah. In fact, this started with AiG writing a counter point to Hovind's arguments that did everything but name Hovind explicitly:

Arguments we think creationists should not use

Hovind objected to the list, naturally, and the response was:

Maintaining Creationist Integrity (a response to Kent Hovind)

Even with the kid-gloves they put on, one really feels embarrassed on behalf of Mr. Hovind.

With that in mind, I find your second link (response to Hovind) incredibly beguiling. One of the authors is Carl Wieland. Weiland has a published article on the "Lost Squadron", supposedly disproving ice core chronology, as bad as anything that Hovind has ever presented.

http://creation.com/the-lost-squadron