Evolution's Wrong Biblically!

[Bushido216]

And John still believes that species' development has nice, clean cut boundaries.

 

[Nathan Poe]

That is one of the theorys or hypothesis. Another is that Gen 1 and Gen 2 are not talking about the same thing. For example, Gen 1 could be talking about the creation of the world, while Gen 2 could be talking about a different creation when God created the Hebrew people.

An interesting theory. Now, how would you go about proving it?

Science is still out to lunch in making a determination if the human species started out as one male and one female, or if there was more then one pair of humans that make up modern humans today.

"Out to lunch?"

Just because you have one theory that you prefer, does not mean that there are not other theorys out there that are just as valid and just as worthy of being reviewed as your pet theory is.

The question is why is that one theory preferred?

People who think that their theory is the only theory worthy of acceptance are close minded and dogmatic.

As much as someone who discards all "man-made" theories as unacceptable and unreliable?

 

[JohnR7]

The question is why is that one theory preferred?

You will need to ask Paul why he perfers that theory, sense it is his theory.

 

[Nathan Poe]

You will need to ask Paul why he perfers that theory, sense it is his theory.

It has a few more supporters than Paul.

 

[JohnR7]

As much as someone who discards all "man-made" theories as unacceptable and unreliable?

Anything that God is not a part of is going to be destroyed when it is tested by fire. Working in a christian school you should know at least that much about the christian belief system.

 

[ONE WHO REMAINS]

Well educated words can be read off a cereal box, many can take writings from those of the greats, but the man who argues off his own knowledge and experience, now that is a wise man. Its easier to copyright than to create, this is understandable in the lazy society we live in. But the bones and dna and other science based facts cant show the transition periods from ape to man, they show an ape that looks like it could in some wierd deformation might be a human. But there are no solid facts and deep down WE ALL know that theres no way we could come from a goo like substance to flying around in planes and going to the moon. There HAD to be some outside help.

 

[ONE WHO REMAINS]

PS: I like the crow, but a little to korny of a movie for me.

 

[Logic]

What a terrible and misunderstood generalization.

 

[notto]

But the bones and dna and other science based facts cant show the transition periods from ape to man, they show an ape that looks like it could in some wierd deformation might be a human.

Then you should have no problem telling us which of the following are ape and which are human, right?

 

[Nathan Poe]

Anything that God is not a part of is going to be destroyed when it is tested by fire. Working in a christian school you should know at least that much about the christian belief system.

I'm well acquainted with the Christian belief system. Your belief system is slightly harder to fathom.

In any case, our school chooses not to linger on the fire-and-destruction aspects of Christianity, opting instead to marvel at the scope of His creation.

And I don't see how studying His creation in an attempt to decypher the when and how of it is something He'd want to destroy.

 

[Bushido216]

Anything that God is not a part of is going to be destroyed when it is tested by fire. Working in a christian school you should know at least that much about the christian belief system.

Transistors don't make a point of involving God, either. What's your point?

 

[lucaspa]

filter science through the bible. the bible says that the earth is the center of the universe. well, it very well may be since God's will centers here. as for the bible saying the sun has a curcuit, it does. golly.

What the Bible says is that the earth does not move. Job 26:7, I Chronicles 16:30, Psalm 93:1, Psalm 96:10, and Psalm 104:5. The idea that the earth is the center of the universe is an inferrence from the statements that the earth does not move.

The original passages above have none of the theological context you have given them.

The Bible says the sun has a circuit around the earth. Instead, the sun has circuit around the galaxy. Not the same thing at all. Please stop misrepresenting the Bible.

 

[lucaspa]

That is one of the theorys or hypothesis. Another is that Gen 1 and Gen 2 are not talking about the same thing. For example, Gen 1 could be talking about the creation of the world, while Gen 2 could be talking about a different creation when God created the Hebrew people.

EVen if that were so, you still have the contradiction that birds and animals are not formed until after the first Hebrew male. But Genesis 1 says birds and animals were created before the people. Also, Genesis 1 has the order: earth, plants, sun and stars. Genesis 2 has the order earth, sun, and stars, then plants. There's no way that has anything to do with the creation of the first Hebrew man.

Science is still out to lunch in making a determination if the human species started out as one male and one female, or if there was more then one pair of humans that make up modern humans today.

You are not thinking in terms of populations, John. In evolution, the question is meaningless. There is no time when you have the "first" member of any species. New species are an accumulation of traits that originated in many individuals over many generations.

Now, you can trace back to a genetic "Adam" and "Eve", but that does not mean they were the only ones alive at that point. It simply means that the other men present only had daughters or their sons only had daughters. Thus the Y-chromosome of those men left the population. But the rest of their genes are still present.

Just because you have one theory that you prefer, does not mean that there are not other theorys out there that are just as valid and just as worthy of being reviewed as your pet theory is.

That's why you falsify the other theories first before you have a pet theory. Now, if you can show the theory not falsified, then we can continue the discussion.

People who think that their theory is the only theory worthy of acceptance are close minded and dogmatic.

Unless they have falsified the alternative theories. However, you have crossed the line from talking about ideas to talking about the traits of the people. This is flaming.

 

[JohnR7]

EVen if that were so, you still have the contradiction that birds and animals are not formed until after the first Hebrew male.

Oh, wait a min. in Gen 1 the says: "let the waters bring forth". It seems to me that evolutionists should be having a mayday on just how waters bring forth birds. Genesis ch 2 talks about how "out of the ground God formed the birds" It sure does not look like the same event to me.

Genesis 1:20
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Genesis 2:19
Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name.

 

[lucaspa]

You will need to ask Paul why he perfers that theory, sense it is his theory.

No, John, he asked you why you thought the theory that Adam is only the first Hebrew man is valid. Please don't deflect the question.

BTW, the idea that there are two creation stories in Genesis is not my theory. It was first proposed in 1718 by Jean Astruc. http://www.fact-index.com/d/do/documentary_hypothesis.html

 

[JohnR7]

That's why you falsify the other theories first before you have a pet theory. Now, if you can show the theory not falsified, then we can continue the discussion.

How can I objectively falsify your subjective theorys, only you can do that. All I can do is falsify it as a objective reality.

There are people who believe that aluminum foil in their hat will protect them from aliens reading their thoughts. Why they think their thoughts are so important that aliens or anyone else would want to know them I do not understand. But it is purely a subjective reality for them, so I leave them alone.

God does not get upset when people keep their opinions to themselves. It is when they begin to corrupt others with their opinions that He will step in and do something about it.

 

[lucaspa]

Oh, wait a min. in Gen 1 the says: "let the waters bring forth". It seems to me that evolutionists should be having a mayday on just how waters bring forth birds. Genesis ch 2 talks about how "out of the ground God formed the birds" It sure does not look like the same event to me.

Right, the two stories contradict. Thanks for admitting that. Genesis 2 isn't talking about just some birds, but all birds. There are no birds or animals, because Adam has to name them. If there were birds and animals before this, the other people would already have named them. So the idea that Genesis 2 is just about Hebrew man is falsified.

Now, you ignored the other contradiction I brought up that falsifies the theory that Genesis 2 is just about Hebrew men. Let me repeat it so, if you want to try to tackle it, you can.

Also, Genesis 1 has the order: earth, plants, sun and stars. Genesis 2 has the order earth, sun, and stars, then plants. There's no way that has anything to do with the creation of the first Hebrew man.

 

[JohnR7]

No, John, he asked you why you thought the theory that Adam is only the first Hebrew man is valid. Please don't deflect the question.

I don't think Adam was the first "person", I think that he was the first Hebrew and the Bible says he was the first to till the land. There could very well have been "people" around before Adam. Esp. in the sense of hunter gather and prehistoric or pre civilized people.

Adam was created around 6000 years ago. "People" have most likely been around a lot longer than that. At least that is what a study of the fossil record seems to suggest and the artifacts they find with those fossils.

 

[lucaspa]

Well educated words can be read off a cereal box, many can take writings from those of the greats, but the man who argues off his own knowledge and experience, now that is a wise man.

But it is also honest scholarship to give credit to the person who first forumulated the idea. Sorry, but this means of trying to dismiss arguments you don't like falls apart because you want us to bear false witness: claim ideas are ours when they were first someone else's.

Now, the important thing is the idea. Is it accurate and valid? If it is, who cares who first came up with it? Truth is truth, whether I am the first to stumble on it or whether Darwin beat me to it.

But the bones and dna and other science based facts cant show the transition periods from ape to man,

The bones can. Remember, the fossils I am talking about are individuals. That is, one individual that is the transition, because it has features of the species that went before and the species that came after. Or features between the one that went before and the one that came after. The fossils I'm talking about are not at all "deformed". Instead, H. erectus looks very like us, and the transitionals show both features of H. erectus and features of us -- H. sapiens.

But there are no solid facts

But there are solid facts. That's why you spent the post trying to deny them. "there are no solid facts" is the Argument from Ignorance. Never a wise argument.

deep down WE ALL know that theres no way we could come from a goo like substance to flying around in planes and going to the moon. There HAD to be some outside help.

I'm afraid there didn't have to be direct outside help. There may have been indirect outside help, but if there wasn't, natural selection and the other mechanisms of evolution are fully competent to go from the first cell to the diversity of life on the planet, including us and our technology. You voiced the Argument from Personal Incredulity. Another argument that is not wise, especially when God's Creation is telling you evolution is hjow it happened. Saying you don't believe God isn't a good idea, is it?

 

[JohnR7]

Right, the two stories contradict.

There is no contradiction. You need to work on this some more. You know if you just prayed and asked God to help you, then you could get this figured out in no time at all. Just be sure you are taught by God, and you do not allow man's theorys to interfer with that. There is no reason for me to try to explain what believe to you. When in effect you need God to help you understand.