Evolution's False Doctrines: i.e. Punctuated Equilibrium Etc.

[Heissonear]

We are only witnesses of your incredible dishonesty and misrepresentation of science, in these silly threads of yours, all of which make the exact same PRATT claims.

Just to point out one silly thing: the cambrian explosion is about the "sudden" appearance of species, you say? "Sudden", as over a period of 40 to 80 million years.

PE is a mechanism of evolution, yes.
It's rather easy....

Selection pressures are dynamic relative the the overal environment.
If the environment stays stable, then so do selection pressures.
In evolution, the "evolved" at some point will hit what is called a "local optimum" in stable environments. That is to say, that there are no more "easy" evolutionary pathways towards higher fitness. As a result at that point, selection pressures wil favour the status quo. ie: little or very slow evolutionary change.

When the stability gets disrupted, selection pressures change. The status quo is no longer favoured. Species no longer find themselves in "local optimums".

Now, evolutionare change "accelerates" again, until a new local optimum is reached.

That's what PE is in a nutshell.


You can return to your usually dishonest tactics now, while completely ignoring everything I just told you.

Yes you present "PE in a nutshell", in good details.

But let us read from the chaps who originated it, from their words as was an intoduction overview as follows:

Ah, just what I thought. To understand the science of why there are periods of rapid evolution then near stasis gaps in the fossil record.

In other words presented by the authors, evolution is finicky. AV may call it consistently finicky.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

A 'doctrine' is a teaching of a church. Example: the doctrine of correct baptism, for instance.

Oversimplification....

Definition of DOCTRINE


a : something that is taught

b : a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : dogma Catholic doctrine

c law : a principle of law established through past decisions

d : a statement of fundamental government policy especially in international relations the Truman Doctrine

e : a military principle or set of strategies

It isn't just a religious belief..... It is ANY belief.....

A 'theory' is a very different kind of thing. 'Theory' means an idea/rule/equation/description that is considered so far, to date, to be a good candidate to be possibly always correct, but we are not yet entirely sure, and we are testing it, over time, to see if it fits all evidence that we uncover, over time. Without ever failing.

Incorrect. it is doctrine....

"a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief"

In science it's only after a very long time a repeatedly tested theory starts to be considered a 'law', meaning something we believe is reliable to always hold, such as the excellent approximation called "Newton's Law of Gravity". It's only because it proved correct to our ability to observe, over centuries, that it finally became accepted as a 'law' of nature.

Still doctrine....

"something that is taught"

(But, actually we now know it's only an approximation, and a more precise rule for gravity than Newton's is Einstein's General Relativity. GPS systems (like your car navigator) must use Einstein's theory in order to be more accurate in their results).

Complete misunderstanding of why GR is used. GR is needed only to make sure the clocks on the satellites remain synced to each other. Syncing them with ground clocks is the only way we know to do that. No other way is known to compare two clocks at different places.....

Clock synchronization - Wikipedia

"Even when initially set accurately, real clocks will differ after some amount of time due to clock drift, caused by clocks counting time at slightly different rates. There are several problems that occur as a result of clock rate differences and several solutions, some being more appropriate than others in certain contexts."

Your car does NOT posses an atomic clock that needs synced to satellite clocks at any accuracy.... Your car GPS only needs to know the differences between time stamps from the satellites.... They could all be 10 minutes ahead or behind and it would not matter at all as long as they were all off by the same amount.....

You can easily test my claim by changing your car GPS to the incorrect time....... It will still get you from point A to point B with the same accuracy, because all it cares about is the difference in time stamps between the satellites..... Not the time difference between it's non-existent atomic clock to one in orbit.....

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Yes you present "PE in a nutshell", in good details.

But let us read from the chaps who originated it, from their words as was an intoduction overview as follows:

View attachment 243166

Ah, just what I thought. To understand the science of why there are periods of rapid evolution then near stasis gaps in the fossil record.

In other words presented by the authors, evolution is finicky. AV may call it consistently finicky.

There are no gaps.

The gaps only exist because they attempt to link two or more totally separate creatures not related in any way.....

 

[Halbhh]

Oversimplification....

Definition of DOCTRINE


a : something that is taught

b : a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : dogma Catholic doctrine

c law : a principle of law established through past decisions

d : a statement of fundamental government policy especially in international relations the Truman Doctrine

e : a military principle or set of strategies

It isn't just a religious belief..... It is ANY belief.....




Incorrect. it is doctrine....

"a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief"



Still doctrine....

"something that is taught"



Complete misunderstanding of why GR is used. GR is needed only to make sure the clocks on the satellites remain synced to each other. Syncing them with ground clocks is the only way we know to do that. No other way is known to compare two clocks at different places.....

Clock synchronization - Wikipedia

"Even when initially set accurately, real clocks will differ after some amount of time due to clock drift, caused by clocks counting time at slightly different rates. There are several problems that occur as a result of clock rate differences and several solutions, some being more appropriate than others in certain contexts."

Your car does NOT posses an atomic clock that needs synced to satellite clocks at any accuracy.... Your car GPS only needs to know the differences between time stamps from the satellites.... They could all be 10 minutes ahead or behind and it would not matter at all as long as they were all off by the same amount.....

You can easily test my claim by changing your car GPS to the incorrect time....... It will still get you from point A to point B with the same accuracy, because all it cares about is the difference in time stamps between the satellites..... Not the time difference between it's non-existent atomic clock to one in orbit.....

You were doing well during the first paragraph to teach the broadest possible way of using the word 'doctrine'.

Trying to make physics theories into 'doctrines' was...fun, interesting. But, well, not of benefit.

I suppose you are merely trying to paint it that physicists have doctrines, and can be doctrinal. Ok. They are indeed human.

I can tell you the thing many physicists love the most is overturning an old theory and replacing it with one they devised. They are constantly trying.

By the way, my degree from college is in Engineering Physics, so you might aim lectures more to others that can better gain from them.

 

[Heissonear]

Oversimplification....

Definition of DOCTRINE


a : something that is taught

b : a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : dogma Catholic doctrine

c law : a principle of law established through past decisions

d : a statement of fundamental government policy especially in international relations the Truman Doctrine

e : a military principle or set of strategies

It isn't just a religious belief..... It is ANY belief.....




Incorrect. it is doctrine....

"a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief"



Still doctrine....

"something that is taught"



Complete misunderstanding of why GR is used. GR is needed only to make sure the clocks on the satellites remain synced to each other. Syncing them with ground clocks is the only way we know to do that. No other way is known to compare two clocks at different places.....

Clock synchronization - Wikipedia

"Even when initially set accurately, real clocks will differ after some amount of time due to clock drift, caused by clocks counting time at slightly different rates. There are several problems that occur as a result of clock rate differences and several solutions, some being more appropriate than others in certain contexts."

Your car does NOT posses an atomic clock that needs synced to satellite clocks at any accuracy.... Your car GPS only needs to know the differences between time stamps from the satellites.... They could all be 10 minutes ahead or behind and it would not matter at all as long as they were all off by the same amount.....

You can easily test my claim by changing your car GPS to the incorrect time....... It will still get you from point A to point B with the same accuracy, because all it cares about is the difference in time stamps between the satellites..... Not the time difference between it's non-existent atomic clock to one in orbit.....

You clarified the use of Doctrine very well, and why it applied to bodies of knowledge where facts and proofs are not scientifically based, but reasoned of believed to be true.

When turning from evolution to Christianity I knew evolution was a doctrine; it was a body if knowledge that took belief to accept.

How many eyes need to be opened to what you wrote! A ton. So many people do not see the application of many sciences building body of knowledge that takes belief to accept; they are doctrines.

For many this has excaped them, they were not aware such wide range of doctrines exist, some false doctrines hiding as scientific theory or hypothesis.

Evolution over the 20th century got loaded up with doctrines. Most false doctrines. Some real science from analytical investigations, but in the interpretations of many finding the bias of evolution made many produce interpretations and doctrines that were fundamentally false doctrines. An accumulated many who accepted false doctrines about evolution.

 

[Heissonear]

There are no gaps.

The gaps only exist because they attempt to link two or more totally separate creatures not related in any way.....

So true. They were bias interpretations of evolutionists.

 

[Ancient of Days]

Nope. The natural sciences are as robust as ever. Literally, no one says this, save cdesign proponentsists.


Nope. The Theory of Evolution exists because of the evidence. Conjecture is what cdesign proponentsists rely on to dupe Christians.


Nope. We have the fossils. You've been lied to if you think otherwise.


Nope. Listening to what cdesign proponentsists tell you about ToE is where you went wrong. Best to ignore them.


Nope. By "burst," do you mean less than five minutes?


Sure. Explained by experts in their field, and not by creationists.


I feel ya', listening to creationists can be confusing.


Nope. Theories exist to best explain the facts. Creationists don't tell you this.

More like, the amount of evidence, because it's overwhelming.


Nope. Nope. & Nope.

Hahaha. Several logical fallacies and "Because I said so"!! Highly typical...

 

[Ancient of Days]

You are quite right!

I was presenting the evolutionists own principals as being shifting sand and error.

They play connect the dots with more than just with fossils.

Exactly! Throw a bunch of dots on the floor and draw lines between them seems to be the whole of evolutionary propaganda...

 

[Heissonear]

Exactly! Throw a bunch of dots on the floor and draw lines between them seems to be the whole of evolutionary propaganda...

The "intellectual reasoning" exercised by many evolutionists during the 20th century ruined any common acceptance to what evolutionary processes explain evolution.

In the 20th century a mess of knowledge accumulated that concluded can be due to a spectrum of "facts".

All the textbooks and publications on evolution were based on widespread conjecture.

Evolutionary theories did not last long in the 20th century. And the steering wheel to how evolution happens was in too many opinionated academians.

It is all in history for us to review the chaotic maturity of how evolution is suppose to happen. A Post-Modern this and an Extended-Modern that.

Scientific knowledge applied to Earth's history has not went so well.

 

[Heissonear]

Those who have tried to organize just the knowledge-based groups involved in socalled process of evolution.

There is no "Integrated Synthesis" now commonly accepted. This is some academic groups promotion, as an overview.

There are many academia department camps yelling at each other with disconcerted conclusions of how evolution "works".

Dawinism is dead. So is Neo-Darwinisn (The Modern Synthesis). Dead also is the Post Neo-Darwinism (Post Modern Synthesis).

We have witnessed in the 19th and 20th centuries Extinctions within acedemia of how evolution works.

Remember, it has been stated (as disinformation) that 97% of scientists accept evolution. Which extinction? (False Evolution Doctrine).

 

[Heissonear]

And how many followed Darwin as being right, evolution of life had occurred on Earth?

Such was pure conjecture acceptance. Plain and simple. Obvious

 

[Jimmy D]

Exactly! Throw a bunch of dots on the floor and draw lines between them seems to be the whole of evolutionary propaganda...

You don’t actually believe that do you? Why do people say such things?

Doesn’t it bother you that you are slandering honest, hardworking people (of all faiths, including your own) and presenting yourself as a bit of a fool?

All for the “cause” eh?

 

[Justatruthseeker]

I can tell you the thing many physicists love the most is overturning an old theory and replacing it with one they devised. They are constantly trying.

Yah, the ones they label crackpots......

By the way, my degree from college is in Engineering Physics, so you might aim lectures more to others that can better gain from them.

Which means what? That you should have therefore understood that all that is needed is for GPS clocks to remain synced with one another, not with any non-existent atomic clock in your car GPS to any degree of accuracy whatsoever..... That it is only because we know of no other way to ensure those clocks remained synced except to sync them with earth clocks to check their accuracy (3 times per day). But that isn't what you were trying to imply to the readers, now was it....

So either you can gain from them, despite your claims of knowledge, or else you were attempting to intentionally mislead readers by omission......

But truthfully it is the ones that feel the need to promote their own claimed scientific knowledge I find offer the least scientific arguments....

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Exactly! Throw a bunch of dots on the floor and draw lines between them seems to be the whole of evolutionary propaganda...

Well to give them credit they do line the dots up by size first.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Remember, it has been stated (as disinformation) that 97% of scientists accept evolution. Which extinction? (False Evolution Doctrine).

Whichever one that is not being falsified at any given moment.... This allows them to switch back and forth at a moments notice to prevent direct falsification.....

 

[Halbhh]

Due to observation of the fossil record, and how there is a lack of even one creature in the fossil record changing into a another creature, evolution has hit a wall.

Evolution is no longer supported by evidence but by conjecture. It needs to be accepted by belief.

Due to the train of scientific followers of evolution, something had to be understood as to why there is complete lack of fossils showing evolution without conjecture.

Well, the mess started of mass production of "doctrines and teachings" of how evolution works to null the rejection of evolution.

One doctrine to explain why we see what we do in the fossil record is Punctuated Equilibria. How creatures burst on the scene and stay as they are for long periods.

Why? Because that is what the fossil record shows. And it needed to be explained.

Such considered rigor to understand and scientifically sustain evolution was acts based upon evolution being conjecture-based. In turn, these "doctrines" could be only accepted thus by belief, not as actual facts.

This thread addresses the theories which have been devised to support and teach how evolution works.

Here is Wiki look at PE:

View attachment 243084

The amount of doctrines that state how evolution works and occurred is the topic of this thread.

This includes nested hierarchy and the like.

These are false doctrines, I might add, because the actual proof they are factual applies to creatures who's fossils do not show evolution happened.

Are you worried if evolution with whatever characteristics was shown to happen it would somehow be evidence against God? No, it would only be evidence about some theories. God can create in any manner He wishes, and His interventions can appear even to look like what we call evolution, etc., and none of it can ever one way or another mean anything for or against God.

No one ever knows God because they believe in some creationism theories instead of other creationism theories.

People only ever come to know of God by responding to the pull to seek Him, with all of their heart.
Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart.

Saving faith only ever comes only by hearing the word of Christ --
17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ. (Romans 10:17)

There are other kinds of faith of course, faith in this or that. Faith in a football team, or a car, or free market capitalism.

Even faith in one creationist theory over another.

But none of those various faiths are saving.

Only faith in Christ is saving.

 

[mark kennedy]

Are you worried if evolution with whatever characteristics was shown to happen it would somehow be evidence against God?

You correctly anticipated my answer but I wanted to speak to the question. Ive been at this for years and more and more found TOE to be a contrived myth. I could dump a truck here but Ill spare you that. I've spent a great deal of time on paleontology and genomic and find the Darwinian tree of life to be utterly false and grossly ill founded. Worried about it? I ser science in general and evolutionary biology in particular to be a kindred spirit in its genuine article. The scientific revolution and the Protestant Reformation were a tandum that moved the western world out of the tyrany and ignorance of the dark ages. I'm going to stop their but just to say, I see creationism as the most important and convincing exercise in evidential apologetics I've ever seen.

No, it would only be evidence about some theories. God can create in any manner He wishes, and His interventions can appear even to look like what we call evolution, etc., and none of it can ever one way or another mean anything for or against God.

I like the word you used, 'intervention', because in many ways redemptive history is an intervention. God has a quality, known among theologians as aseity, or the utter independance of God. My opinion, God provided for adsptive evolution but it started with the creation of life 6000 years ago. Evolution itself, in my opinion, is the ultimate intelligent design argument argument. The philosophy of Darwinian tree of life scenerios on the other hand, can be dismissed as mythology.

No one ever knows God because they believe in some creationism theories instead of other creationism theories.

People only ever come to know of God by responding to the pull to seek Him, with all of their heart.
Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart.

Saving faith only ever comes only by hearing the word of Christ --
17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ. (Romans 10:17)

There are other kinds of faith of course, faith in this or that. Faith in a football team, or a car, or free market capitalism.

Even faith in one creationist theory over another.

But none of those various faiths are saving.

Only faith in Christ is saving.

Amen, always a blessing to hear the gospel again.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Jimmy D]

I've spent a great deal of time on paleontology and genomic and find the Darwinian tree of life to be utterly false and grossly ill founded.

After reading your first post in this thread I find your claim about studying palaeontology highly dubious.

Unless you were deliberately mischaracterising PE of course, we can’t rule that out.

 

[mark kennedy]

After reading your first post in this thread I find your claim about studying palaeontology highly dubious.

Unless you were deliberately mischaracterising PE of course, we can’t rule that out.

If you believe in man descending from ape you must believe in punctuated equilibrium. The hominid line starts 2 mya without precursors and requires at least 60 de novo genes. Impossible by any strech of the imagination but that conclusion would require actually reading something. You obviously cant be bothered with such things.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

If you believe in man descending from ape you must believe in punctuated equilibrium. The hominid line starts 2 mya without precursors and requires at least 60 de novo genes. Impossible by any strech of the imagination but that conclusion would require actually reading something. You obviously cant be bothered with such things.

If there were no precursors, how could it be just "60 de novo genes"? Wouldn't it require an entirely new genome?

If we don't have DNA from an ancestor, how do you know it required "60 de novo genes"?

You really aren't very good at this, are you?