Evolution, why so many believe?

[Jet Black]

Thats a cowardly cop out. It doesn't matter what two animals you use, if one is the ancestor and one is the predecestor then evolution has to explain why the predecestor has gained DNA and lost old DNA.

I already told you the mechanisms

 

[Steve_Graham]

Fact is, there is a creator in heaven and his name is Jesus. All things came into existence through him.

 

[MartinM]

Think I'm nuts?

No, just incapable of recognising a false analogy.

 

[Jet Black]

I have a brand new 1.9 mhz computer sitting in front of me now. It's extremely fast and runs window xp. It's amazing what this computer will do. Do you know how I got it? Well, there was a huge storm that roll through last night. The winds were very high and even tornadic at times. This morning when I got up and went outside --there it was. A brand new computer that was whipped up out of nothing but the matter in the air. This computer is not the product of Intelligent design but rather a big bang. All the particles in the air came together at the right time last night and whipped up this extremely complex computer. And it could not have happened with the Big bang Theory.


Think I'm nuts?

woot, another strawman

 

[Pete Harcoff]

woot, another strawman

"There's strawman all over the place!"

There's my cheesy pop culture reference for the day...

 

[Jet Black]

Well why don't you show us then.

you will find them in elementary biology textbooks

From the website you posted. So you want to explain to me what MECHANISM caused a whales legs to get smaller and smaller and smaller lol? Was that mutation?

yes. actually.

 

[Criosdaidhlaoch]

Heres something for you Steve that kind of relates to what you said.

It has been estimated that the complexity of planet Earth can be quantified with 160 exponential bits of information. Now, that doesn’t seem like much information to represent a whole planet but consider the following. 32 exponential bits of information (EBI), which was the most my calculator could handle, works out to this: 263,130,836,933,693,530,167,218,012,160,000,000. That’s 263 decillion, 130 nonillion, 836 octillion, 933 septillion, 693 sextillion, 530 quintillion, 167 quadrillion, 218 trillion, 12 billion, 160 million bits of information. That’s a lot of information in just 32 EBI, so don’t scoff at 160.

In order to go from 32 EBI to 160, I would have to multiply that big number above by 33. Then I would have to multiply the result of that by 34, over and over up to 160 EBI.

The complexity of the solar system is represented by 170 EBI. Bear in mind that the difference between 160 EBI and 170 is huge. Now, don’t get confused about what I’m saying. We’re talking about the quantified representation of complexity.

The complexity of the universe can be quantified by 235 exponential bits of information. To get to 235 EBI, I would have to take the number above (More than 263 decillion) and multiply it by 33, then the result of that by 34 and so on up to 235. 235 EBI is a really crazy big number, nearly unimaginable.

Do you know how many exponential bits of information it would take to quantify the complexity of the ‘simplest’ living material, the proteus molecule, an organism so basic that it has to borrow RNA from others just to reproduce? 1,500 EBI. Universe 235, proteus molecule 1,500.

How about a single cell E-coli, a mere bacteria? It would take 7,000,000 exponential bits of information to express it, to quantify its complexity. Go back and look at 32 EBI again. Big number. Then check out the universe at 235. Unimaginable number, we don’t even have a name for a number that big. Now check out life, 7 million EBI.

Are you ready for a single human cell? I doubt it. 20,000,000,000 EBI. One single human cell would require 20 billion exponential bits of information to express. There isn’t enough complexity in the whole universe to quantify or express a single human cell.

It isn’t even close. It’s the difference between 235 EBI and 20 billion.

I’ll let that settle in while we talk about odds. If I had three blocks, numbered 1 2 3, and put them in a box and then drew them out one at a time, I could generate 6 different combinations (123, 231, 312, 132, 213). According to the law of averages, I could count on drawing the blocks in numerical order an average of 1 in 6 tries.

If I add blocks 4 and 5, I now have 120 possible combinations (1x2x3x4x5=120) and can expect to draw them out in numerical order an average of 1 in 120 tries. If I add blocks 6 through 10. My number of possible combinations has just jumped to 3,500,000 and if I draw the blocks out that many times, I can expect to do so in numerical order once in 3.5 million tries.

If I continued to play this game with only ten blocks and, if I could do it day and night, drawing all ten blocks out every 15 seconds, I could expect to draw them out in numerical order an average of once every 18 months.

If I add blocks 11 through 20 the number of possible combinations has leapt to 1,001,783,179,837,440,00. 20 blocks, over a quintillion different combinations. I could expect to draw the 20 blocks out in numerical order once in more than a quintillion tries. If I could draw all 20 blocks out in a single second, day and night, I would draw them in numerical order an average of once in 77 million years. That’s just 20 blocks.

Do you know how many blocks are in a protein molecule? There are about 2,000 atoms in a protein molecule. I could expect to draw that many blocks out in numerical order an average of 1 in 10 to the 231st power. That’s 10 with 230 zeros after it. I have no idea how long that would take me to do. Next time someone tells you that life sprang by chance from nothing, tell them to do the math

 

[Steve_Graham]

No, just incapable of recognising a false analogy.

There's no false analogy. There had to be a point in time where extremely complex living things came into existence. I'm sorry my friend, but evolution is another one of Satan's deception. He did it to Adam and Eve and he continues to do it today. It's a war of good and evil and Satan uses whatever he can to deceive. That's fact.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Yay, probability arguments! More strawman for everyone!

(I have a feeling I'm going to be ignored soon... )

 

[Jet Black]

"There's strawman all over the place!"

There's my cheesy pop culture reference for the day...

burning away brightly... aah nice and warm.

 

[Jet Black]

There's no false analogy. There had to be a point in time where extremely complex living things came into existence. I'm sorry my friend, but evolution is another one of Satan's deception. He did it to Adam and Eve and he continues to do it today. It's a war of good and evil and Satan uses whatever he can to deceive. That's fact.

nope, abiogenesis is not biogenesis.

 

[Jet Black]

Do you know how many blocks are in a protein molecule? There are about 2,000 atoms in a protein molecule. I could expect to draw that many blocks out in numerical order an average of 1 in 10 to the 231st power. That’s 10 with 230 zeros after it. I have no idea how long that would take me to do. Next time someone tells you that life sprang by chance from nothing, tell them to do the math

oh that was umm.... hoyle right? you know his calculations have been demonstrated to be wrong

 

[Steve_Graham]

Heres something for you Steve that kind of relates to what you said.

It has been estimated that the complexity of planet Earth can be quantified with 160 exponential bits of information. Now, that doesn’t seem like much information to represent a whole planet but consider the following. 32 exponential bits of information (EBI), which was the most my calculator could handle, works out to this: 263,130,836,933,693,530,167,218,012,160,000,000. That’s 263 decillion, 130 nonillion, 836 octillion, 933 septillion, 693 sextillion, 530 quintillion, 167 quadrillion, 218 trillion, 12 billion, 160 million bits of information. That’s a lot of information in just 32 EBI, so don’t scoff at 160.

In order to go from 32 EBI to 160, I would have to multiply that big number above by 33. Then I would have to multiply the result of that by 34, over and over up to 160 EBI.

The complexity of the solar system is represented by 170 EBI. Bear in mind that the difference between 160 EBI and 170 is huge. Now, don’t get confused about what I’m saying. We’re talking about the quantified representation of complexity.

The complexity of the universe can be quantified by 235 exponential bits of information. To get to 235 EBI, I would have to take the number above (More than 263 decillion) and multiply it by 33, then the result of that by 34 and so on up to 235. 235 EBI is a really crazy big number, nearly unimaginable.

Do you know how many exponential bits of information it would take to quantify the complexity of the ‘simplest’ living material, the proteus molecule, an organism so basic that it has to borrow RNA from others just to reproduce? 1,500 EBI. Universe 235, proteus molecule 1,500.

How about a single cell E-coli, a mere bacteria? It would take 7,000,000 exponential bits of information to express it, to quantify its complexity. Go back and look at 32 EBI again. Big number. Then check out the universe at 235. Unimaginable number, we don’t even have a name for a number that big. Now check out life, 7 million EBI.

Are you ready for a single human cell? I doubt it. 20,000,000,000 EBI. One single human cell would require 20 billion exponential bits of information to express. There isn’t enough complexity in the whole universe to quantify or express a single human cell.

It isn’t even close. It’s the difference between 235 EBI and 20 billion.

I’ll let that settle in while we talk about odds. If I had three blocks, numbered 1 2 3, and put them in a box and then drew them out one at a time, I could generate 6 different combinations (123, 231, 312, 132, 213). According to the law of averages, I could count on drawing the blocks in numerical order an average of 1 in 6 tries.

If I add blocks 4 and 5, I now have 120 possible combinations (1x2x3x4x5=120) and can expect to draw them out in numerical order an average of 1 in 120 tries. If I add blocks 6 through 10. My number of possible combinations has just jumped to 3,500,000 and if I draw the blocks out that many times, I can expect to do so in numerical order once in 3.5 million tries.

If I continued to play this game with only ten blocks and, if I could do it day and night, drawing all ten blocks out every 15 seconds, I could expect to draw them out in numerical order an average of once every 18 months.

If I add blocks 11 through 20 the number of possible combinations has leapt to 1,001,783,179,837,440,00. 20 blocks, over a quintillion different combinations. I could expect to draw the 20 blocks out in numerical order once in more than a quintillion tries. If I could draw all 20 blocks out in a single second, day and night, I would draw them in numerical order an average of once in 77 million years. That’s just 20 blocks.

Do you know how many blocks are in a protein molecule? There are about 2,000 atoms in a protein molecule. I could expect to draw that many blocks out in numerical order an average of 1 in 10 to the 231st power. That’s 10 with 230 zeros after it. I have no idea how long that would take me to do. Next time someone tells you that life sprang by chance from nothing, tell them to do the math

That's a lot to take in, but it does prove my point quite well. Thanks for that.

 

[Criosdaidhlaoch]

"Yay, probability arguments! More strawman for everyone!

(I have a feeling I'm going to be ignored soon... "


You're already being ignored because you choose to combat questions that you can answer by calling them "straw men" when yu know darn well every answer given by an evolution supporter in this thread has been used just as many times as any probability arguement.

 

[Vintersorg]

Hey steve how can you bring religion into evolution. If you believe in Creationism like the bible states, then the world could only be 6,000 years old. And if there was only 2 humans in the beginning how could they have started the human race. If they had offspring, which they did according to the bible, how did Cane and able produce another human? Last time i checked 2 guys couldent get eachother pregnant.

 

[Jet Black]

Yay, probability arguments! More strawman for everyone!

(I have a feeling I'm going to be ignored soon... )

not if we ignore them first

 

[Jet Black]

You're already being ignored because you choose to combat questions that you can answer by calling them "straw men"

that's because your arguments are strawmen. do you know what a strawman is?

 

[Jet Black]

That's a lot to take in, but it does prove my point quite well. Thanks for that.

well it proves your strawman could never happen.

 

[Criosdaidhlaoch]

"However, biologists readily admit that they are less certain of the exact mechanism of evolution; there are several theories of the mechanism of evolution."

Theories. You know what that is don't you science man? ROFL.

 

[ThePhoenix]

This is ridiculous. This is the biggest collection of PRATTs and strawmen I've ever seen. e have tornados assembling computers, the massive number PRATT, they're all here. Hey, Criosdaidaloch, the number of protons, nuetrons, and electrons in the universe is estimated to be 10^76. The amount of data it would apparently take to represent the earth according to you is many trillions of trillions of trillions times this. Doesn't that make you wonder if maybe your number, is, I don't know, WRONG?!?