Evolution - Speciation finally observed in the wild?

[AV1611VET]

Did God create the animals before or after he made Adam?

Just one word answer please AV. Before or after.

Before.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

That's not what the King James Bible says. It leaves out that pesky word "had". And I know that @AV1611VET will be the first to tell you that if it ain't the King James, it ain't worth squat!

True, those pesky Catholics are fond of distorting the Bible. Why look, they proclaim a priest has to be celibate...

And here, we will even use their translation.

1 Timothy 3:2 "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife...."

How many married bishops do you know???????

 

[the iconoclast]

1Jo 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

God bless you

Hey hey saint.

Im going to call it and possibly jump the gun, we are friends!!!!

God bless you and thank you

 

[the iconoclast]

So do I.

I think you're one hip groovy dude that's with it, baby!

I really dig your posting style; it's like nowsville!

Hahaha.

Its a stone cold gas and you are a righteous daddy-o.

 

[Kylie]

Before.

Sorry, wrong answer.

God formed man in Genesis 2:7, and then when he saw Adam was alone, he decided to make animals to serve as companions, as stated in Genesis 2:18-19.

 

[Kylie]

True, those pesky Catholics are fond of distorting the Bible. Why look, they proclaim a priest has to be celibate...

And here, we will even use their translation.

1 Timothy 3:2 "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife...."

How many married bishops do you know???????

So your reasoning is that the Bible has been distorted. Of course, I have to ask - how do you determine which bits of the Bible have been distorted and which haven't?

 

[Aman777]

Hey hey saint.

Im going to call it and possibly jump the gun, we are friends!!!!

God bless you and thank you

Amen...but I believe in the Dolly Parton rule. She says if you've got something to say, say it...........and then duck. God bless you

 

[the iconoclast]

Amen...but I believe in the Dolly Parton rule. She says if you've got something to say, say it...........and then duck. God bless you

Hahaha nice, i love it saint.
God bless, together we are stronger

Cheers

 

[Justatruthseeker]

So your reasoning is that the Bible has been distorted. Of course, I have to ask - how do you determine which bits of the Bible have been distorted and which haven't?

Well if I was you I would start by seeing what the words actually mean in Hebrew, since that is the language it was written in. A language where the same word can have several meanings all depending on the context, or a word even meaning an entire concept of thought.

Just a thought.

I mean if you had a Russian to English translation and several people translated it differently, it might be a good idea to look up the Russian words and see what you think it means.... instead of always relying on others.....

The Bible is not contradictory at all. in the original Hebrew.....

 

[Justatruthseeker]

But let's get back to topic and contradictory confessions of evolutionists......

Definition of SPECIES

"a category of biological classification ranking immediately below the genus or subgenus, comprising related organisms or populations potentially capable of interbreeding,"

the definition of species

"

1. Biology. the major subdivision of a genus or subgenus, regarded as the basic category of biological classification, composed of related individuals that resemble one another, are able to breed among themselves, but are not able to breed with members of another species

Species definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary

"A species is a class of plants or animals whose members have the same main characteristics and are able to breed with each other."

species Definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary

"a set of animals or plants, members of which have similar characteristics to each other and which can breed with each other"

species | Definition of species in English by Oxford Dictionaries

"A group of living organisms consisting of similar individuals capable of exchanging genes or interbreeding. "

Species - Definition and Examples | Biology Dictionary

"A species is a group of organisms that share a genetic heritage, are able to interbreed, and to create offspring that are also fertile. Different species are separated from each other by reproductive barriers."

So, has speciation really and truly been observed in the wild?????? Or is this the part we start making up our own inconsistent definitions of words, while only pointing fingers at translators of the Bible??????

 

[Kylie]

Well if I was you I would start by seeing what the words actually mean in Hebrew, since that is the language it was written in. A language where the same word can have several meanings all depending on the context, or a word even meaning an entire concept of thought.

Just a thought.

I mean if you had a Russian to English translation and several people translated it differently, it might be a good idea to look up the Russian words and see what you think it means.... instead of always relying on others.....

The Bible is not contradictory at all. in the original Hebrew.....

True, I would expect some differences in the text.

But I would not expect one translation to talk about Dmitri going on holidays to New Zealand while another translation of the same text spoke of Vladimir going on a business trip to Canada.

And that's not even taking into account that the original text could include colloquialisms that we just don't know of.

 

[Kylie]

But let's get back to topic and contradictory confessions of evolutionists......

Definition of SPECIES

"a category of biological classification ranking immediately below the genus or subgenus, comprising related organisms or populations potentially capable of interbreeding,"

the definition of species

"

1. Biology. the major subdivision of a genus or subgenus, regarded as the basic category of biological classification, composed of related individuals that resemble one another, are able to breed among themselves, but are not able to breed with members of another species

Species definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary

"A species is a class of plants or animals whose members have the same main characteristics and are able to breed with each other."

species Definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary

"a set of animals or plants, members of which have similar characteristics to each other and which can breed with each other"

species | Definition of species in English by Oxford Dictionaries

"A group of living organisms consisting of similar individuals capable of exchanging genes or interbreeding. "

Species - Definition and Examples | Biology Dictionary

"A species is a group of organisms that share a genetic heritage, are able to interbreed, and to create offspring that are also fertile. Different species are separated from each other by reproductive barriers."

Yes yes, I've seen the definition of species pop up several times. There is no perfect definition, but the ability to interbreed definition usually does a pretty good job for the most part. Why are you trying to rehash stuff that's already been discussed?

So, has speciation really and truly been observed in the wild?????? Or is this the part we start making up our own inconsistent definitions of words, while only pointing fingers at translators of the Bible??????

Yes, speciation has been observed in the wild. Observed Instances of Speciation

I'm sure that link has also been provided to you several times at least also.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

True, I would expect some differences in the text.

But I would not expect one translation to talk about Dmitri going on holidays to New Zealand while another translation of the same text spoke of Vladimir going on a business trip to Canada.

And that's not even taking into account that the original text could include colloquialisms that we just don't know of.

Except it talks about neither of those......

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Yes yes, I've seen the definition of species pop up several times. There is no perfect definition, but the ability to interbreed definition usually does a pretty good job for the most part. Why are you trying to rehash stuff that's already been discussed?

I'm glad we agree then that speciation has not been observed in darwin's finches and that calling them separate species is either lying or misleading.....

Yes, speciation has been observed in the wild. Observed Instances of Speciation

I'm sure that link has also been provided to you several times at least also.

Sigh......

"crossed the primrose species Primula verticillata and P. floribunda to produce a sterile hybrid. Polyploidization occurred in a few of these plants to produce fertile offspring."

Sterile means extinct.... But they produced fertile offspring anyways......

"This allowed for the production of seed. Plants grown from the seeds were interfertile with each other. They were not interfertile with either parental species."

So they were still the same species as were the parental species........

"hypothesized that Madia citrigracilis was a hexaploid hybrid of M. gracilis and M. citriodora"

"Dobzhansky and Pavlovsky (1971) reported a speciation event that occurred in a laboratory culture of Drosophila paulistorum sometime between 1958 and 1963. The culture was descended from a single inseminated female that was captured in the Llanos of Colombia. In 1958 this strain produced fertile hybrids when crossed with conspecifics of different strains from Orinocan."

SO I see quite a few offspring being produced for claims of separate species.......

As for animals???

Well "I will tackle this topic in greater depth in the next version of this document."

and I guess he never did tackle that problem......

 

[Kylie]

Except it talks about neither of those......

Are you serious? Where did I ever say that the Bible was wrong because it didn't talk about Russians named Dmitri and Vladimir?

Seriously dude, what the heck?

 

[Kylie]

I'm glad we agree then that speciation has not been observed in darwin's finches and that calling them separate species is either lying or misleading.....

Yeah, I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Yeah, I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth.

Sure you did.....

"There is no perfect definition, but the ability to interbreed definition usually does a pretty good job for the most part."

Is this the part where you are going to attempt to double-talk your way around the fact they they have been interbreeding right in front of the researcher's noses????

 

[Kylie]

Sure you did.....

"There is no perfect definition, but the ability to interbreed definition usually does a pretty good job for the most part."

Is this the part where you are going to attempt to double-talk your way around the fact they they have been interbreeding right in front of the researcher's noses????

No, I'm just going to point out that since you don't understand evolution, you don't understand how a new species can arise.

Let's say you have a population of finches. This population becomes divided, say a storm blows some finches to a neighbouring island, and the distance is too far for them to generally fly by themselves. Now the original population is two populations. If you try to breed between the populations a year later, you won't have a problem, because they are still the same species.

But over time, they will start to change. Beak shape changes to suit the food available on the island. Sturdy if they need to crack seeds, but slender of they need to pull insects from underneath bark. But there is no single point at which they stop being able to interbreed. The difference in beak shape can happen quite rapidly. But they are still fairly closely related and can still produce fertile offspring. The different species of finches on the Galapagos were only separated fairly recently in evolutionary time, and most of the selective pressures they would have faced were from food sources.

 

[Ophiolite]

Be more specific and actually show me a contradiction and I will show you your error. Until then, everyone will see that you don't really want to know.

I see that Kylie wishes you to acknowledge the contradiction or provide a reasoned argument, supported by evidence, to justify your assertion that there is no contradiction. She is not closing her eyes or mind to alternatives - "doesn't really want to know" in your terminology. Consequently your claim that "everyone will see that you don't really want to know" is demonstrably false.

Aman, the atheists on this forum think your claims are crazy. The agnostics on this forum think your claims are ludicrous. The Christians on this forum think your claims are nonsense (and some of them think they are evil). Why not just give up being an irritation in everyones side, or - and this would be better - stop posting nonsense, or do so with more humility and less arrogant (unjustified) certainty.

 

[Aman777]

Aman, the atheists on this forum think your claims are crazy. The agnostics on this forum think your claims are ludicrous. The Christians on this forum think your claims are nonsense (and some of them think they are evil). Why not just give up being an irritation in everyones side, or - and this would be better - stop posting nonsense, or do so with more humility and less arrogant (unjustified) certainty.

Haven't you noticed that the atheists cannot refute me historically?
Haven't you noticed that the agnostics cannot refute me scientifically?
Haven't you noticed that I have no problem with Christians but only with phonies who cannot support their religious views with actual Scripture?
Do you wish to prohibit someone from showing what Scripture actually says instead of unsupported personal religious opinions, backed by nothing? on a Christian board?