Evolution Promotes Brutality

[Loudmouth]

Like what?

Sent a flood to wash the squatters away?

Or should the Jews have co-existed with them in harmony?

Would you have resolved your problem by just shrugging and saying:

"Hey, look. You squatters take the upstairs and we'll live downstairs. How's that? After all, it is my house."

Right -- they would have diced you up and put out on the curb for pickup.

An omnipotent deity can't stop people from killing each other without using murder himself? Really?

 

[46AND2]

Like what?

Sent a flood to wash the squatters away?

Or should the Jews have co-existed with them in harmony?

Would you have resolved your problem by just shrugging and saying:

"Hey, look. You squatters take the upstairs and we'll live downstairs. How's that? After all, it is my house."

Right -- they would have diced you up and put out on the curb for pickup.

Don't know AV. YOU are the one who said that he "could have" done it another way.

 

[Butterfly99]

There are many true Christians who have accepted that life on Earth evolved over millions of years.

In particular, lifeforms have been around for over 200 million years which have continuously lived by biting and devouring other lifeforms.

Has God allowed brutality to be the means for many lifeforms to exist for such a long period of time?

I don't think so. How about you?

God's allowed us to become more refined & better able to survive & thrive. Evolution doesn't promote brutality. Tbh I think you're kinda being manipulative with your wording of things.

 

[Heissonear]

Survival doesn't necessarily require savage killing.

Have you ever got too close to a water moccasin's den? Have you ever seen a house boat invaded by water moccasins in a swamp? Well those are reptiles.

Do you know what can happen if you get close to bear cubs with their mom is around?

How about wolves looking for food. What do wolves do to animals like a herd of sheep? Have you witnessed what is common?

In each case what is the harm? Is it a display of viciousness? In the case of animals like bears and wolves, is it a display of tearing flesh to pieces? If there are a few bears and wolves are the fleshly pieces dragged around by each and the pieces scattered?

Sounds brutal to me.

How about walking a tall grassy water line of a warm climate lake. Have you heard of alligators?

Brutality exists in every environment on Earth. Survival of the fittest is displayed in brutal killing. An intregal part of Evolution is brutal killing. Is this correct?

 

[expos4ever]

So savage killing would be an integral part in God using Evolution as a means of bringing higher forms of life on Earth. Is this correct?

In the Old Testament, God is characterized as ordering wholescale genocides in order to bring Israel successfully into the promised land.

Is this not the same problem - God using savagery to achieve an end? Do you believe what the Bible plainly teaches - that God ordered genocides? I do not see how can answer "yes" and not be forced, for the sake of consistency, to retract your objection about evolution entailing savage killing.

I believe in God and I believe in evolution. So I think this means I have to live with the position that yes, God "used" killing to bring forth higher forms of life. I am not sure that forces me into an embarrassing position or not. I will have to think about it.

 

[Heissonear]

God's allowed us to become more refined & better able to survive & thrive. Evolution doesn't promote brutality. Tbh I think you're kinda being manipulative with your wording of things.

I'm over the target, a key part of Evolution. And it is not pretty.

 

[Reasoning]

Have you ever got too close to a water moccasin's den? Have you ever seen a house boat invaded by water moccasins in a swamp? Well those are reptiles.
Do you know what can happen if you get close to bear cubs with their mom is around?
Hw about wolves looking for food. What do wolves do to animals like a herd of sheep? Have you witnessed what is common?
In each case what is the harm? Is it a display of viciousness? In the case of animals like bears and wolves, is it a display of tearing flesh to pieces? If there are a few bears and wolves are the fleshly pieces dragged around by each and the pieces scattered?
Sounds brutal to me.
How about walking a tall grassy water line of a warm climate lake. Have you heard of alligators?
Brutality exists in every environment on Earth. Survival of the fittest is displayed in brutal killing. An intregal part of Evolution is brutal killing. Is this correct?

It is not really brutality. We might perceive it that way, but those animals are just finding food to eat. How else do you suppose animals eat if they cannot 'brutally' kill other animals?

 

[Cute Tink]

Brutality exists in every environment on Earth. Survival of the fittest is displayed in brutal killing. An intregal part of Evolution is brutal killing. Is this correct?

No I don't agree that "brutal killing", whatever that is supposed to mean exactly, is a requirement for evolution.

Survival of the fittest is displayed in a lot of ways and doesn't necessarily mean the strongest or best "brutal killer".

How about you define what you mean by "brutal killing". Some would consider any killing "brutal". Not sure what you mean by that or why it matters whether God would use "brutal killing" in evolution when there is plenty of violence in the Bible.

 

[Papias]

Without which the Jews wouldn't exist today.

God is ominipotent - there have to be tons of ways to accomplish nearly anything without the genocide used. How about creating another planet, and poofing them to that planet? Same goes for the flood.

Papias

 

[Loudmouth]

Have you ever got too close to a water moccasin's den?

Have you ever watched an entire colony of ants work together in order to succeed?

 

[expos4ever]

Another related point. Sometimes, creationists will argue that evolutionary theory promotes ruthless "survival of the fittest" thinking. I think this reasoning misses the point and I expect many (in fact I suspect nearly all) evolutionists would say that even though we got here through survival of the fittest, this does not in any way mean that we should somehow ascribe to this thinking in terms of the way we live our lives and structure our society.

 

[46AND2]

Brutality exists in every environment on Earth. Survival of the fittest is displayed in brutal killing. An intregal part of Evolution is brutal killing. Is this correct?

Again, brutality is a part of nature. Evolution would occur whether that is true or not. If you're concerned about the brutality in nature, why are you not blaming your God for making it this way?

 

[Papias]

That's like saying that you don't believe in plate tectonics because God wouldn't make a system that results in terrible earthquakes and volcanic eruptions that kill animals.

Or that you don't believe that water is unbreathable by land animals, because God wouldn't make a common material in such a way that it would kill so many animals by drowning. Dihydrogen monoxide, etc.

Or.......

and so on.

I see Heissonear has ignored my post #13. Here it is again.

And Heissonear, what do you think "fittest" means?

Papias

 

[Heissonear]

In the Old Testament, God is characterized as ordering wholescale genocides in order to bring Israel successfully into the promised land.

Is this not the same problem - God using savagery to achieve an end? Do you believe what the Bible plainly teaches - that God ordered genocides? I do not see how can answer "yes" and not be forced, for the sake of consistency, to retract your objection about evolution entailing savage killing.

I believe in God and I believe in evolution. So I think this means I have to live with the position that yes, God "used" killing to bring forth higher forms of life. I am not sure that forces me into an embarrassing position or not. I will have to think about it.

I'm over a key part of Evolution and I hear words of defense.

Did life Evolve on Earth over millions upon millions of years?

I'm a geologist by upbringing and higher education. I understand the history of the Earth. I'm asking, did Evolution really happen, and if it did do you understand its brutality?

 

[Loudmouth]

I'm over a key part of Evolution and I hear words of defense.

Did life Evolve on Earth over millions upon millions of years?

I'm a geologist by upbringing and higher education. I understand the history of the Earth. I'm asking, did Evolution really happen, and if it did do you understand its brutality?

Evolution is no more brutal than gravity.

 

[46AND2]

I'm over a key part of Evolution and I hear words of defense.

Did life Evolve on Earth over millions upon millions of years?

I'm a geologist by upbringing and higher education. I understand the history of the Earth. I'm asking, did Evolution really happen, and if it did do you understand its brutality?

There is nothing inherently brutal about evolution. Whether it exists or not is immaterial in relation to the brutality that exists in nature. The brutality is there if evolution is true, and it is also there if it is false.

 

[Heissonear]

Those who quote the Old Testament, are you going to do the same? Probably not.

Does the New Testament say things differently? Yes, quite a bit.

The Old Testament may of had select reasons - to be explained for why those experiences happened than just said God accepts such brutality? Probably, right? That is my thinking. Such as many cases of the physical shadowing the spiritual, for us to learn from. Brutality to the demonic, kill and dystroy the demonic, etc.

 

[expos4ever]

I'm over a key part of Evolution and I hear words of defense.

Sorry, don't understand this.

Did life Evolve on Earth over millions upon millions of years?

I believe that it did.

I'm asking, did Evolution really happen, and if it did do you understand its brutality?

Yes, evolution happened and, yes, there was arguably brutality in it. But my point is the following: I presume that your implied argument is "evolution could not have happened since God would never use brutality to produce higher forms of life, including man". If so, how do you square that objection with the fact that the Old Testament clearly describes God as ordering genocides in order to get them into the promised land?

 

[expos4ever]

Those who quote the Old Testament, are you going to do the same? Probably not.

True enough but besides the point. We are talking about God and His arguable use of brutality.

Does the New Testament say things differently? Yes, quite a bit.

Again, besides the point. The fact that God used brutality to achieve goals in the Old Testament puts you in a tough spot relative to what I understand your position to be.

The Old Testament may of had select reasons - to be explained for why those experiences happened than just said God accepts such brutality? Probably, right? That is my thinking. Such as many cases of the physical shadowing the spiritual, for us to learn from. Brutality to the demonic, kill and dystroy the demonic, etc.

This really does not seem to address the force of the objection I and others are raising. God may equally have had "reasons" to use evolution. The basic problem with your position is that of consistency. Yes, the idea that God would use the brutality of evolution to bring about higher life does, on first glance at least, seem to conflict with the image of God as kind and loving. Yet all sorts of horrible things happen in the world that one would equally well expect a loving God to prevent. And this includes natural disasters for which no human is responsible (so the counterargument that God will not override human free will does not work).

 

[Heissonear]

There is nothing inherently brutal about evolution. Whether it exists or not is immaterial in relation to the brutality that exists in nature. The brutality is there if evolution is true, and it is also there if it is false.

☺ Nope.

Is there Scriptures of a lamb sitting with a lion, or such a like? I do believe so.