Evolution or Creationism?

[joshua 1 9]

And the horrific suffering that many of them experience before passing through that magic door.......?

Titus1:5 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Something went wrong in their transition to earth. Maybe they were aborted or there was a miscarriage or something like that. The world is in a fallen state and there is death in the world.

Sure. But the question is: can you call it "wrong" when a soul goes straight to an eternal paradise?

The Bible says that God saves them from the trouble that is to come. Because of His love and His mercy.

That's not an answer to the question being asked.

Yes of course we are happy that our loved ones went on to their reward. We still miss them and we have questions that we wish we had asked them when they were still alive.

But you'll see them again, right? Can't you just ask those questions then?
See, here's why I'm asking this....

There doesn't seem to be any real difference between the mourning of christians on the one hand and atheists on the other...

Considering what christians believe, I'ld expect that "mourning" for a christian would be more comparable to when an atheist's child moves to the other side of the world.

They assume they'll see eachother again some day, but they'll still miss eachother. But there is no real mourning. Having your child move to the other side of the planet is clearly not the same as your child dying - and the response from those that stay behind reflect that clearly.

But that's not what I see in the real world.
In the real world, I see christians react to the death of loved ones in the exact same way as atheists do.

Which makes me rather conclude that deep down, christians see death pretty much the same way as atheists do: game over, the end.

Why else would they react in the same way?

Why would it not make sense that we still grow and mature in Heaven.

Errr.... because physics?

I can not begin to tell you all I look forward to when I get there.

So........you look forward to dying?
It's kind of scary how much you sound like a foot soldier from al-qaida or ISIS or something.

 

[bhsmte]

And the horrific suffering that many of them experience before passing through that magic door.......?

Those are the breaks.

 

[joshua 1 9]

It's kind of scary how much you sound like a foot soldier from al-qaida or ISIS or something.

We are appointed to blow the trumpet and sound the alarm.
What you do with the warning is your responsibility.

Ezekiel as Israel's Watchman
2"Son of man, speak to the sons of your people and say to them, 'If I bring a sword upon a land, and the people of the land take one man from among them and make him their watchman, 3and he sees the sword coming upon the land and blows on the trumpet and warns the people,4then he who hears the sound of the trumpet and does not take warning, and a sword comes and takes him away, his blood will be on his own head.…5'He heard the sound of the trumpet but did not take warning; his blood will be on himself. But had he taken warning, he would have delivered his life. 6'But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman's hand.'

 

[Oncedeceived]

So... killing children is like buying them a ticket straight to paradise?

Yikes!

You believe that for children to die, God is killing them?

 

[asherahSamaria]

You believe that for children to die, God is killing them?

I suspect this is the issue around "if children (before developing the ability to reason) die they get a ticket straight to heaven" So if you honestly believed that, then people would logically kill their children to ensure they got "straight to heaven". As most people, quite rightly, don't do that, it must mean they don't really believe it. This is an example where basic humanity trumps religious belief.

 

[Oncedeceived]

That doesn't make any sense.
Not all desease is genetic. In fact, most isn't.
If you wish to entertain the idea that your deity of choice created life, then you must also entertain the idea that this deity created viruses, parasites and plenty of bacteria that are out to kill is - which is their way for surviving.

In that sense, desease really isn't some "logical consequence". In that sense, rather, it's planted on purpose by this deity.

You can't have your cake and eat it too...

To even begin to understand the implications of such things upon mankind one needs to take as a whole the Bible and God's complete sovereignty. We as Christians have a personal relationship with God and know He is good and merciful and loving and holds all understanding of our world. We may not understand all reasons for why things happen in the way we do but we can rest assured that there is a reason. God chose to create the way He chose to create and viruses, parasites and bacteria are part of that scenario.

 

[Oncedeceived]

I suspect this is the issue around "if children (before developing the ability to reason) die they get a ticket straight to heaven" So if you honestly believed that, then people would logically kill their children to ensure they got "straight to heaven". As most people, quite rightly, don't do that, it must mean they don't really believe it. This is an example where basic humanity trumps religious belief.

That is probably the most deranged thought process I've seen. You probably need some sort of prize for that one.

 

[asherahSamaria]

That is probably the most deranged thought process I've seen. You probably need some sort of prize for that one.

I just took it from a Christian story

http://kfor.com/2015/06/11/mom-charged-with-killing-kids-leaves-note-about-final-moments/

 

[Oncedeceived]

I just took it from a Christian story

http://kfor.com/2015/06/11/mom-charged-with-killing-kids-leaves-note-about-final-moments/

And you don't think that is deranged?

 

[lasthero]

That is probably the most deranged thought process I've seen. You probably need some sort of prize for that one.

What's deranged about it?

Children who don't develop reasoning get to go to Heaven, the best place anyone could ever possibly be, EVER. If they do develop this reasoning capability, they run the high risk of going to the absolute WORST place you could be, EVER, where they will wallow in torment for all eternity. The odds are high that they will go to second place, not the first.

So, with those facts in mind, why would you want your child to reach reasoning age? Wouldn't you want to ensure your child gets into Heaven, if you genuinely believe such a place exists?

 

[asherahSamaria]

I just took it from a Christian story

http://kfor.com/2015/06/11/mom-charged-with-killing-kids-leaves-note-about-final-moments/

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...10-year-old-son-heaven-cops-article-1.2047023

Here's another one. They are very sad stories

 

[Blades]

Because of supernatural Experiences I have had with Both God and jesus I no longer fear Death, there is no debate for me between Creation and Evolution... it is truly wonderfull to actualy know with out any doubt about the reality of God, and his creative Power. What staggers my mind most is how insignificant we are in his greater scheme of things, how easy it would have been to forget or overlook us on this speck of dust in a quiet backwater of his Creation....yet to know the Love he has for us instead only serves to remind me how undeserving we are of that Love, and yet that is how he feels about us.
All Honor Power and Glory be to God !

 

[asherahSamaria]

And you don't think that is deranged?

Of course it's deranged - but unfortunately religious dogma has encouraged that faulty thinking in some people.

 

[Oncedeceived]

What's deranged about it?

Children who don't develop reasoning get to go to Heaven, the best place anyone could ever possibly be, EVER. If they do develop this reasoning capability, they run the high risk of going to the absolute WORST place you could be, EVER, where they will wallow in torment for all eternity. The odds are high that they will go to second place, not the first.

So, with those facts in mind, why would you want your child to reach reasoning age? Wouldn't you want to ensure your child gets into Heaven, if you genuinely believe such a place exists?

You all really are fatalists. Thou shalt not kill. Plain and simple. If you are Christian, know God and understand life if a gift; you would not take a life...no ones life and especially your own child's.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Of course it's deranged - but unfortunately religious dogma has encouraged that faulty thinking in some people.

Religion didn't encourage that faulty thinking, some people are sick and deranged in all walks of life.

 

[Oncedeceived]

I just took it from a Christian story

http://kfor.com/2015/06/11/mom-charged-with-killing-kids-leaves-note-about-final-moments/

I also want to mention ....this is no Christian story.

 

[asherahSamaria]

You all really are fatalists. Thou shalt not kill. Plain and simple. If you are Christian, know God and understand life if a gift; you would not take a life...no ones life and especially your own child's.

You underestimate the power of belief. Would you sacrifice you life to ensure the life of your children? Most parents would. Now just up the stakes. Would you sacrifice your soul (I'm just playing along with the though process here - obviously there is no actual evidence that such a thing exists) to ensure eternal happiness for your children?


Apparently some people did. Would they have done it without the religious dogma - possibly so possibly not, but it is the religious dogma they are quoted as believing.

 

[DogmaHunter]

You believe that for children to die, God is killing them?

Well, if everything that happens, happens according to God's will (as many christians like to state), then by definition this God is to blame for the deaths of children (and anyone else, for that matter).

But that is not what I said though.
What I said is rather a factual response to what YOU said.

If a child that dies gets to go straight to heaven, then from that logically follows that killing children is the equivalent of ensuring their salvation.

That's a factual response to what you said if you actually meant what you said.

 

[Oncedeceived]

You underestimate the power of belief. Would you sacrifice you life to ensure the life of your children? Most parents would. Now just up the stakes. Would you sacrifice your soul (I'm just playing along with the though process here - obviously there is no actual evidence that such a thing exists) to ensure eternal happiness for your children?

Would you kill your child if they were suffering from a horrendous incurable disease? IF they were suffering and in pain, would you kill them?