Evolution is the Great Apostasy

[Bruce D McKay Elijah]

No I Am NOT Agreeing with Velikovsky's Conclusions
By Bruce D McKay, Elijah.
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Hey! I didn't say one thing about "the head of a comet," and nothing about anything like that, did I. That's forever the "theme of Velikovsky's works." I like his books because they are packed with details of the ancient world, however. I guess it's not too difficult to mistake the crux of his World's in Collision conclusions(?) with what I have presented. If that's what you got out of it, however, I am truly surprised!
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I AM EVEN GOING TO TAKE A MOMENT TO EXPLAIN TO YOU WHAT'S GOING TO CAUSE "THE TRUMPET OF GABRIEL" TO SOUND - AND WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WHEN IT DOES! Nor is it that the planets can make music, or the "music of the spheres!" Give me a break. And He, Velikovsky even tries to repeatedly say that "the waters (that) were heaped at their highest above the surface of the earth before they fell down - followed by a rain of debris, were "torn from the very body and tail of a comet!" In contrast, what I wrote is that the waters were highly charged, and they moved to the left and right, due to a great release of energy and new matter, coming up from the mantle! Then the water molecules were no longer the same shape, and being more like the atoms making up "a solid," then they obviously began to stack! That's what I wrote. This was "an effect," which caused a "double wall of water," and between the two - the sea was without any water molecules - in that the NORMALLY WET MOLECULES were all pulled out(!) and so the area or zone between the two walls of water, was immediately turned into "dry land!" Thus, they went through the flood on foot - and the Egyptians, who were planning to "ride over their heads" with their chariots, were all killed. .
So, I don't agree with Velikovsky's conclusions; He claimed it was all because of a comet.
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When he notes things like Appollodorus' description of the Typhon, that "out-topped all the mountains, and his head often brushed the stars," I tend to take notice. What also gets me is the discription. They called it, the mighty "Typhon" rushing at heaven" and his being "pelted at a distance with thunderbolts" thrown by Zeus. And he fled he was pursued closely, as far as Mount Casius, which overhangs Syria. I take that to mean, a massive, super high wall of water passed through the area. And when it started to "flee through the Sicilian sea," Zeus picked up Mount Etna in Sicily and "threw it upon him."(pg 79) It is unfortunate that a comet passed by "in the sign of Capricorn," and Velikovsky was able to imagine all this as due to "a comet, encountering a planet," as if the comet's tail became "entangled and drawn away from it's own path."(pg 78) It is not difficult to realize the difference. The supposed "tail of a comet" versus a massive water wall, or the rapid release of new matter from the mantle, so there reaches up Typhon, (Quote)"who they add, was a dragon, when struck by the bolts of lightning, (and he) fled in search of a descent underground."
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"And not only did he cut great furrows into the earth and from the beds of rivers," Velikovsky writes, "but he also descendeding underground," where "he made fountains to break forth." "Then the earth shook and trembled; the fountains also of the hills moved and were shaken because he was wroth. ...He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet. ...At the birghtness that was before him his thick clouds pased, hair stones and coals of fire. The Lord also tundered in the heavens... there were stones and coals of fire. ...He shot out lightnings. ...Then the channels of water were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered."(Esdra IV)
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You get a little of the altering of reality here. Velikovsky has everything laid out in terms of it being a comet. But, I do take note, when he points out things like Philo, the Alexandrian philosopher, as describing (Quote) "the commotion on the earth below and in the sky above: 'The mountain (Sinai) burned with fire and the earth shook and the hills were removed and the mountains overthrown; the depths boiled, and all the inhabitable places were shaken... and flames of fire shone forth and thunderings and lightnings were multiplied, and winds and tempests made a roaring; the stars were gathered together (collided, possibly an optical turning of their projected light.)* Referring to the verse, "He bowed down the heavens also, and (this as he) came down. (Psalms 19), Pseudo-Philo describes the events of Mount Sinai and says that the Lord "impeded the course of the stars."* "The earth was stirred from her foundation, and the mountains and the rocks trembled in their fastenings, and the clouds lifted up their waves against the flame of the fire that it sould not consume the world... and all the waves of the sea came together."*
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Moreover, please do not think all this is merely a "Christian invention." The Hindus even (Quote) "depict the cosmic catastrophe at the end of a world age: 'The whole world breaks into flames. So also, a hundred thousand times ten million worlds. All the peaks of Mount Sineru, even those which are hundreds of leagues in height, crumble and disappear in the sky. The flames of fire rise up and envelop the heaven." So it was when the sixth sun or sun age ended. Similarily, in the Jewish tradition, with the revelation at Sinani, the xisth world age was terminated and the seventh began.(pg 96)
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"Twisting of strata and building of mountains, earthquakes and rumbling of volcanoes joined in an infernal din. It was a voice not only in the desert of Sinai; the entire world must have heard it. "The earth and the sky resounded... mountains and hills were moved," says the Midrash. "Loud did the firmament roar, and earth with echo resounded," says the Gilgamesh. In Hesiod, "the huge earth groaned, when Zeus lashed Typhon with his bolts, "the earth resounded terribly, and the wide heavens above."
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According to Midrashic literature, the trump sounding at Mount Sinai had seven different pitches (or notes), [not unlike the seven reaches of the periodic table...] and the rabbinical literature speaks of "the heavenly music" heard at the revelation. "At the first sound the sky and the earth moved, the seas and the rivers turned to flight, mountains and hills were loosened in their foundations."
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Homer depicts a similar occurrence in these words: "THE WIDE EARTH RANG, AND ROUND ABOUT THE GREAT HEAVENS PEALED AS WITH A TRUMPET." "The world all burns at the blast of the horn," is said in the Voluspa. When you hear it, this is what it sounds like when the molecules of the very air begin to vibrate in unison, on a global basis! And when that happens, when that final or last trumpet sounds according to the scriptures, everyone all over the entire earth is going to hear it and they will ALL know that it is - the return of Christ!.
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Elijah
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*From The Biblical Antiquities of Philo (transl. M. R. Jams, 1917, Chap XI XIII, and XXXII.)

 

[Bruce D McKay Elijah]

By Bruce D. McKay, Elijah
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What you suggest is somewhat true as they do, the water molecules do "stack up," simply because the normally flacid molecules go into what is scientifically known as a "LIMIT LAYER MOVEMENT." Here's how it works, and "this be written..." (I assume,) so's you is able to understand it, as in mathematical terms. In brief, the water molecules could/can/or do, “stack,” one upon the other, higher and higher, once a "limit layer movement" is established - just as two or more glass slides firmly stick together! In fact, this explains why the slides used in a common microscope are often found to be very firmly stuck together!
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It has a lot to do with what you note! That is, if the surfaces in contact do not change, [i.e., they remain super charged,] than we can figure out the situation like this : a stationary surface, a layer of water over it, and over it, the other surface of glass that might move. Considering the newtonian fluids, you know that : F/A = k . V / L where F = force parallel to the surface of glass A = area in contact; V = velocity of the moving glass in relation to the stationary glass; L = distance between both surfaces k = constant (viscosity). For a given A and L, this force will be bigger depending on how great the velocity becomes. There is a velocity gradient between both surfaces. The water molecules in both glass surfaces are firmly attached to the glass and move together with the moving glass, with velocity V, and have velocity zero, because they are attached to the glass surface that does not move. Between these extremes, the other water molecules move
from zero velocity till the bigger velocity, in a linear relationship. This is what is called "limit layer movement".
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Now, consider the force necessary to separate both surfaces.
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The forces that are put into action depend on how big the surface is. For a given surperficial tension ( F/L ) the bigger the area, the bigger the force that is needed to cause separation. It is not possible to say that "to slide is easier than to separate", because the first is dependent on velocity, distance between the surfaces, viscosity ( that is also dependent on temperature ) and the second is dependent on surface ( among other factors ). Think about it!
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To compare extreme cases, [as when the molecules are subject to being super cooled or super cold,] it can be - for instance - easier to separate than to slide the surfaces, if you have a high velocity of movement and a small area of contact. In normal situations, [however] you will have the contrary, as you propose in your question when you say " is much easier to slide than separate".
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So, [what this means is...] the forces will be bigger depending on how the situation is to be considered.” That is according to Alcir Grohmann at
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy00/phy00374.htm .
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And of course this means . . . as more and more molecules enter into the operations of this molecular “stacking,” then the forces do become bigger and bigger! As you have suggested, however, it is possibly very true that the body employes this same type of "limit layer movement" as part of a common errection, just as you've briefly implied.
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So if those in Lapland have their "cosmogonic story," CLAIMING THAT A GRAT WALL OF WATER SLAMMED INTO THE AREA, and they indicate that the whole world was or has been, much smaller - in that the continents formed almost all of the outer crust WITH NO VAST OCEANS. . . AND GET THIS ! ! ! The antient people in Lapland said . . . “The MIDMOST OF THE EARTH (which is the earth’s mantle!) “TREMBLED WITH TERROR!” And, according to Laplander’s cosmogonic story, “SO THAT THE UPPER LAYERS OF THE EARTH FELL AWAY,” then this is CLEARLY EXPLAINS that as NEW MATTER from inside the MANTLE was released - the continents moved!
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What a RELIEF all this would be to the continental drifters all over the planet, if they were indeed seeking an end to all their long term debates! And the ancients spoke of what was before TH“AT LAND (now) ICE,” and they claimed it (At-Land-Ice of which comes our modern, "Atlantis,") and they maintain it was once such a very beautiful tropical land it was then widely known as "paradise!" If we unzip the Atlantic, the very edges of the entire area very readily move back, from thousands of miles away, which explains how those who survied in Lapland knew so much about, in that their own country was once part of that same region, now known as the Polar Circle along with Greenland and all that - before present day Lapland, as we call it today, moved to its current position! And long before the Earth expanded as it has, or as it did, they even recorded – that’s when “Jubmel,” their name for GOD or THE HEAVEN-LORD HIMSELF, came down(!) . . . He said “I shall reverse the world. I shall bid the rivers flow upward; I SHALL CAUSE THE SEA TO GATHER TOGETHER ITSELF UP INTO A HUGE TOWERING WALL and I shall HURL IT upon your wicked earth-children, and thus destroy them and all life.”
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So taking all this into account, then the NEWTONIAN PARADIGM noted above is one that explains the features of a "LIMIT LAYER MOVEMENT," and this does indeed explain how a "HUGE TOWERING WALL OF WATER" once swept over Alaska, temporarily uprooted the whole continent of Greenland and haultingly backed it up almost on end a few hundred miles, as it passed(!) and then all that water came crashing down(!) so suddenly in fact that it immediated glaciated the entire area so rapidly that even live mammoths and everything there all became flash frozen, and in fact "glaciated," except for one spot - the nothern end of Greenland!
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NOW Really! HOW COULD THIS BE SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF YEARS AGO - IF THEY WROTE ABOUT IT AND HAVE RECORDS ON THIS IN ANCIENT LAPLAND!!!!!!!
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Hence, there were no "millions of years" involved in terms of the earth's oceans emerging. There was no long and drawn out "ice ages" requiring tens of tunsands of years in the making. The earth never did "very slowly evolve over millions and millions of years of time. There are actual races of human beings who have records explaining what they could of these events as they took place! And so the whole argument that revolves around evolutionary theory is in fact, NOT TRUE - and the concept claiming that NEW MATTER , that is VAST QUANTITIES of NEW MATTER, were released FROM WITHIN THE MANTLE, is indeed both accurate and true! Moreover, since the polar ice caps at both ends of the planet are now in a state of rapid melt down - I must maintain that this planet is in fact NOW POSED on the greatest of all the changes that it has ever encountered. And all this is just as alluded to in the Bible: ALMOST EVERYONE ON THIS ENTIRE PLANET IS EXACLTY, JUST AS THEY WERE FOUND, JUST PRIOR TO THE FLOODING OF THE WHOLE WOLRD - DURING THE DAYS OF NOAH! In the book of Matthew it says, "But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and knew not until the flood came and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Matthew 24:37-40
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Elijah

 

[Captain_Jack_Sparrow]

What a non sequitur.

 

[TheGoof]

{Trying to make the blind that refuse to see open their eyes is greatly overstated as important...We all can only do what we are called by God to do and let the Holy Spirit Lead men to the truth..}



TOTALLY AGREE

 

[Bruce D McKay Elijah]

The following News Article is copyrighted by the Environmental News Service.
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These facts are presented here, in full, in consideration of the possible CATASTROPHIC EFFECTS of an ongoing massive shifting of weight in the polar regions. That one detail is not mentioned directly or otherwise forseen in the article presented here. In that regard, you may want to tell your friends to check out these details as found in the Christian Forums! They need to know, it is proposed that the extensive melting of the global ice caps may indeed act in such a manner as to turn, alter, or otherwise seriously disrupt, the normal spin of the entire planet! And if this does indeed turn out to be the case, understandably, such an event would readily and fully explain much of the past geological history of this planet as being CATASTROPHIC in its origins; it would also translate into a very extensive shaking of the entire planet for an unknown period of time, CAUSING WIDESPREAD, MASSIVE DESTRUCTION, and the very probable occurence of significant amounts of new matter being released from its otherwise normal, highly compressed state within the actual mantle of the planet. Indeed, THE METHODIC DEMISE OF NATURAL EARTH may have aready begun, in part caused by or associated with the otherwise mysterious changes in the atmospheric gasses of the planet as have been thus far attributed to various process and products of the heavily industrialized nations. This latter fact, being already discovered, may yet prove out to be a detail completely misinterperted scientifically. It may in fact even be a type of advance warning of the coming end of our current "geological age."
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In other words, it is suggested that you read the following with great care in regard to a proposed, oncoming series of rapid, catastrophic, and highly massive changes in the overall geology of the planet. In that regard, no editorial comment has been added. Each reader is advised to simply read and consider the facts, taking into account the result(s) that may understandably occur, if and/or when a massive weight shift or shifts does alter or effect either the orbital spin, or the magnetic axis. Lastly it should be noted that researchers also say that even the Anartic and the South Pole has also been found to now be melting at a very alarming rate.
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Source: Copyright 2002, Environment News Service
Date: December 9, 2002
Byline: Cat Lazaroff
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WASHINGTON, DC, December 9, 2002 (ENS) - More ice melted from the surface of the Greenland Ice Sheet this year than ever before recorded, report scientists from the University of Colorado. The same team found that the extent of Arctic sea ice reached the lowest level in the satellite record in 2002, offering further evidence that climate change is already altering the Arctic.
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Researchers from the University of Colorado (UC) based Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Sciences (CIRES), say the accelerated melting appears to be linked to shifts in Northern Hemisphere atmospheric circulation patterns. The study also found temperatures during the summer of 2002 were warmer than usual over much of the Arctic Ocean.
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"Since the season also was characterized by very stormy conditions, we believe these two factors contributed to extensive melt and break up of the icepack," said UC research associate Mark Serreze.
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The 2002 sea ice record is the most recent evidence of a downward trend in Arctic sea ice in the decades since satellite monitoring began, said Serreze, a researcher at CIRES' National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC), and lead author on a report about sea ice extent and area in the Arctic.
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Satellite data show the area of the Arctic Ocean covered by sea ice in September 2002. Lower than average concentrations of ice floes appear in blue and higher concentrations in yellow. (Illustration not included.) The lavender line indicates a more typical ice extent, the median for 1988-2000. The white circle at the North Pole is the area not imaged by the satellite sensor. (Graphic courtesy NSIDC)
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UC researcher James Maslanik, a coauthor of the study, noted that the 2002 minimum sea ice record in the Arctic is the lowest since the early 1950s and could be the lowest in several centuries.
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"It is likely that sea ice extent will continue to decline over the 21st century as the climate warms," Serreze added. "With these trends, we may see an approximate 20 percent reduction in the annual mean sea ice by 2050, and by then we might be approaching no ice at all during the summer months."
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The report was released on Saturday at the annual fall meeting of the American Geophysical Union, just one week after an announcement by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) that sea ice is melting about nine percent faster than prior research had indicated, and could vanish entirely by the end of this century.
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The new findings underscore the urgency of steps to reduce human contributions to global warming, said Jennifer Morgan, director of the climate change program at the World Wildlife Fund (WWF).
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"This trend of disappearing arctic sea ice is one example of the environmental damage that can be linked to carbon dioxide emissions," said Morgan. "When we have the means to reduce CO2 emissions and prevent further damage, inaction is irresponsible. National leaders must act now to implement energy efficiency measures and increase the use of renewable energy sources, like wind and solar, before it's too late."
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The burning of coal and other fuels emits carbon dioxide (CO2) and other gases that blanket the earth, trap in heat and cause global warming. According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), climate change in the polar region is expected to be the greatest of anywhere on Earth.
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In a report issued earlier this year, WWF described ongoing polar bear research showing how these Arctic mammals depend on annual accumulations of sea ice to hunt seals, a major protion of their diet. In that report, WWF described how as temperatures in the Arctic become warmer - and are remaining warmer for longer periods - the ice free season lengthens, threatening the survival of polar bears and other Arctic wildlife.
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The new reports from NASA and the University of Colorado suggest that sea ice is (also) retreating even faster than suggested by the WWF report in May. Satellite monitoring by NSIDC led to the discovery of the record sea ice retreat, said UC research associate Julienne Stroeve.
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"We saw an unusually pronounced loss of ice in the Beaufort, Chukchi, East Siberian and Laptev Seas," Stroeve said, noting the ice extent in September 2002 was about two million square miles compared to the long term average of about 2.4 million square miles.
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"We had a hunch it was setting up to be a record year in August," said Ted Scambos of NSIDC, who has been working in Earth's polar regions. "What we saw really surprised us. Not only was sea ice retreating in nearly every sector, but the interior ice was unusually thin and spread out."
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Preliminary measurements from the Greenland Ice Sheet show the melt extent of 265,000 square miles, a new record, underscoring the unusual warming there and surpassing the maximum melt extent from the past 24 years by more than nine percent, said CIRES climatologist Konrad Steffen.
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Steffen's analyses with graduate student Russel Huff show a higher melting trend since 1979 that appears to have been interrupted just once, in 1991, when the Philippines' Mt. Pinatubo erupted.
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Steffen and Huff found the northern and northeastern portion experienced extreme melting reaching as high as 6,560 feet in elevation, where temperatures are normally too cold for melting to occur. The highest point in Greenland rises to almost 11,000 feet.
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The melting ice could lead to even faster warming, said NSIDC's Scambos. Both sea ice and glacier ice cool Earth, reflecting about 80 percent of springtime solar radiation and 40 percent to 50 percent during summer snowmelt.
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In winter, ice cover slows heat loss from warmer ocean water to the cold atmosphere. Without large sea ice masses at the poles to moderate the global energy balance, warming escalates, Scambos explained.
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CU scientists estimate that a change in the Greenland climate toward warmer conditions would lead to an increase in the rate of sea level rise, due largely to the response of the large ice sheet and not so much to the surface melting.
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"For every degree (F) increase in the mean annual temperature near Greenland, the rate of sea level rise increases by about 10 percent," Steffen said. The oceans are now rising by a little more than half an inch per decade.
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Melt water has also been shown to affect the rate of ice flow off Greenland directly, penetrating the ice sheet and causing the glaciers to accelerate in speed as they slide over a thin film of melt water.
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The melting of sea ice, along with runoff from the Greenland Ice Sheet, could impact deep water convection in the North Atlantic, altering global ocean circulation and climate, said the UC's Serreze.
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"In other studies, changes in the North Atlantic circulation have been implicated in starting and stopping Northern Hemisphere ice ages," he added.
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_____________________________
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This important News Report PROVES that in 2002, the Ice in our polar regions was in fact melting "at a Record Rate." Other reports as published in 2003, consistenly claim that the melting is even worse than everyone was led to previously believe! It all causes me to conclude that we are fast approaching the end of the current age.
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Posted by Bruce D McKay, Elijah

 

[Jimmy The Hand]

They need to know, it is proposed that the extensive melting of the global ice caps may indeed act in such a manner as to turn, alter, or otherwise seriously disrupt, the normal spin of the entire planet!

Everyone hang on!

Soon, it will be tiltawhirl for us all!

 

[Bruce D McKay Elijah]

The entire basic of logic on which evolution rests has been overturned and destroyed. See Illustration of Greenland or what is God's own Tiddly Wink - posted in this same ChristianForum on 17th March 2004, 03:03AM, by Bruce D McKay, Elijah, "Greenland Proves Evolution Is . . . All Wrong!"
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"Time Destroys the Speculations of Men,
but it confirms nature."​

Marcus T Cicero​

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As the brilliant philosopher of science, and author of the classic The Logic of Scientific Discovery, Karl R. Popper once said...

"My aim in this lecture is to stress the significance of one particular aspect of science - its need to grow, or, if you like, its need to progress. I do not have in mind here the practical or social signifance of this need. What I wish to discuss is rather its intellectual significance. I assert that continued growth is essential to the rational and emprical character of scientific knowledge; that if science ceases to grow it must lose that character. It is the way of its growth which makes science rational and emprical; the way, that is, in which scientists discriminate between available theories and choose the better one or (in the absence of a satisfactory theory) the way they give reasons for rejecting all the available theories, thereby suggesting some of the conditions with which a satisfactory theory should comply.​

You will have noticed from this formulation that it is not the accumulation of observation which I have in mind when I speak of the growth of scientific knowledge, but the repeated overthrow of scientific theories and their replacement by better or more satisfactory ones. This, incidently, is a procedure which might be found worthy of attention even by those who see the most important aspect of the growth of scientific knowledge in new experiments and in new observations. For our critical examination of our theories leads us to attempts to test and to overthrow them; and these lead us further to experiments and observations of a kind which nobody would ever have dreamt of without the stimulus and guidance both of our theories and of our criticism of them."

Popper, Karl R., Conjectures & Refutations, The Growth of Scientific Knowledge, pages 215 and 216.​

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In that regard, the final fall of evolution brings to my mind a statement once made by the famed Voltaire . . .

"I am ignorant of how I was formed, and how I was born, For a quater of my life I was absolutely ignornat of the reasons for all that I saw, heard and felt, and I was nothing but a parrot at whom other parrots chattered.​

When I looked around me and within me, I conceeived that something exists for eternity; since thre are beings who exist today. I concluded that there is a being who is necessary and necessarily eternal. Thus, the first step I took to emerge from my ignorance crossed the boundaries of all the centuries."​

"Why, alone of all animals, hss man the mania for dominating his fellow men?​

Why and how has it been possible tha a hundre thousand million men more than ninety-nine have been immolated by this mania?​

How is reason so precious a gift that we would not loose it for anything in the world? and how hs this reason served only to make us the most unhappy of all beings?​

Whence comes it that loving truth passionately, we are always betrayed to the most gross impostures?​

Why is life still loved by this crowd of Indians deceived and enslaved by the bronzes, crushing a Tartar's descendants, oberburdened with work, groaning in want, assialed by disease, exposed to every scourge?​

Whence comes evil, and why does evil exist?​

O atoms of a day! O my compainions in infinite littleness, born like me to suffer everything and to be ignorant of everything, are there enough madmen among you to believe that they know all these things? No, there are not; no, at the bottom of your hearts you feel your non-entity as I render justice to mine. But you are arrogant enough to want people to embrace your vain systems; unable to tyrants over our bodies, you claim is to be tryants over our souls.

"Voltaire, in Voltaire's Philosophical Dictionary, The World Publishing Co., 1943, pages 163 and 165​

Submitted by Bruce D McKay, Elijah

 

[Chi_Cygni]

Bruce old boy,

Please seek help! I implore you to lay off the uppers. You are a good example of the breaking of Forum Rule #7. You don't debate, you don't respond to specific questions, you just post ream and reams of dense, hard on the eyes, nonsense. I believe the huge posts also break another forum rule.

Are you well? This is not just sarcasm, I mean really, are you OK?

 

[notto]

As the brilliant philosopher of science, and author of the classic The Logic of Scientific Discovery, Karl R. Popper once said...

". . . For our critical examination of our theories leads us to attempts to test and to overthrow them; and these lead us further to experiments and observations of a kind which nobody would ever have dreamt of without the stimulus and guidance both of our theories and of our criticism of them."

Popper, Karl R., Conjectures & Refutations, The Growth of Scientific Knowledge, pages 215 and 216.​

Bruce, you should take his advice and work to test your theory and critically examine it. You have been presented with several falsifications of it and have provided nothing but ad-hoc rationalizations in return. You need to examine the evidence (not just a map) including geology, chemistry, and physics, and provide a list of things and observations that if found would falsify your premise. You have not done this and have presented your ideas as an unfalsifyable premise (because it is supported by ad-hoc explainations and calls to miraculous intervention).

Popper would be laughing with the rest of us. The use of his quote to try to support your ideas is sort of funny. It is exactly the methods that he discusses that overthrew the long standing ideas of a young earth and cataclismic or flood formation of the planets geology.

Your ideas do NOT represent a better explaination for all of the evidence. You look at a map, see what you want to see, and avoid all rational discussion of your claims and simply circle back around to 'look at the map' .

 

[Peiper]

Bruce D McKay, Elijah:

The entire basic of logic on which evolution rests has been overturned and destroyed. See Illustration of Greenland or what is God's own Tiddly Wink

Ummm... wow! I am not even going to comment.

A question: Please explain to me how the quote from Sir Karl Popper refutes evolution? It seems to me rather to be commentary on his wish that science never stagnates. Please explain your use of this quote.

In that regard, the final fall of evolution brings to my mind a statement once made by the famed Voltaire . . .

*sigh*

Sir, I say, with all due respect, please know the biography and the body of literature of a man before you quote his works. Voltaire was not a friend of the Church. While Voltaire was a deist, he the author of many criticisms of Christianity. So much so, that upon his death, he was initially denied a church burial!

"The truths of religion are never so well understood as by those who have lost the power of reasoning"
Voltaire. Philosophical Dictionary, 1764.

 

[Bruce D McKay Elijah]

Reply to Notto

Is Popper Really Laughing? I think not.
from Bruce D. McKay, Elijah

I will stand by my map! It is strange that no one ever even noticed it before! (FOR MAP See Bruce D McKay, Elijah Greenland Proves Evolution Is In Error, 17th March 2004, 03:03 AM!) I know some people don’t like it. Notto, you can give up on trying to discredit it, or me, as the map shows how Greenland moved, and it accruately proves evolution is indeed false. It cannot be true. It is only a myth - so give me, and yourself, a break.
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Evolution is a myth. Myths change over time. In this case you should welcome the Greenland map, clear, accurate, true, and a far better explaination of the evidences. It is also the direct result of the growth of scientific theories. The real truth of the matter is, evolution just doesn’t give us a better view in terms of giving a better and better account of the world! Have you noticed? The polar ice caps are melting like never before. Everything about the movement of Greenland speaks of an impending and very massive catastrophic series of changes happening. Evolution is wrong. That means it wound be "a century from now." When it happens, everyone on the entire planet may be readily subjected to an incredible end of the age development - and you do not want to admit it, or believe it, or in any way subject your overly guarded “religion-beating down theory” to even the normal processes of good science. And what is going to happen, sans evolution, is going to be very, very rapid and in concert with the movement of Greenland, the earth's crust, and many events across all the continents of this world.
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Nor is Popper laughing, as your message supposes. His “thesis” was that (quote) “what men call ‘science’ is differentiated from the older myths – not by being something different from a myth, but by being accompanied by a “second-order tradition – that of critically discussing the myth.” (Popper, Karl R., Conjectures and Refutations, The Growth of Scientific Knowledge, Basic Books, London, 1962, page 127) He also says, (quote)
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We understand that, in a certain sense, science is myth making just as religion is. You will say: ‘but the scientific myths are so very different from the religious myths.’ Certainly they are different. But why are they different. They change; and they change in the direction of giving a better and better account of the world – of the various things which we can observe. And they also challenge us to observe things which we would never have observed without these theories or myths.”​

“. . . The man to whom a myth was handed on, together with the silent but traditional request, ‘What have you to say about it? Can you criticize it?’ – this man would take the myth and would apply it to the various things which it was supposed to explain, such as the movement of the planets [or Greenland, or the continents]. Then he would say: ‘I do not think that the myth is very good, because it does not explain the actual observable movement of the planets, or whatever it might be [i.e., Greenland, or the continents.] Thus it is the myth or the theory which leads to, and guides, our systematic observations – observations undertaken with the intention of probing the truth of the theory or the myth. From this point of view the growth of the theories of science should not be considered as the result of the collection or accumulation of observations; on the contrary, the observations and their accumulation should be considered as the result of growth of the scientific theories. (This is what I have called the ‘searachlight theory of science’ – the view that science itself throws new light on things; that it not only solves problems, but that, in doing so, it creates many more; and that it not only profits from observations, but leads to new ones.) In this way we look out for new observations with the intention of probing into the truth of our myths, we need not be astonished if we find that myths handled in this rough manner change their characer, and that in time they become what one might call more realistic or that they agree better with observable facts. In othe words, under the pressure of criticism the myths are forced to adapt themselves to the taks of giving us an adequate and a more detailed picture of the world in which we live.”​

(Popper, Karl R., Conjectures and Refutations, The Growth of Scientific Knowledge, Basic Books, London, 1962, page 127)​

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Doesn’t Popper say . . “the growth of the theories of science should not be considered as the result of the collection or accumulation of observations; on the contrary, the observations and their accumulation should be considered as the result of growth of the scientific theories.” What you are saying then is, don’t look at the map of Greenland! I don’t want to even begin to see what you want me to see! Any and all rational discussion of WHAT ANYONE CAN SEE AS HAVING HAPPENED - shall surely circle back around where it might start knocking some sense into everyone who has given their heart and soul over to the godless theory of evolution! That is your real problem. And all I am saying is that it is easy to see how the continent of Greenly once stood on end, and then backed up about 300 miles, and then IT EVEN TURNED from an eight o’clock position to a four o’clock position BEFORE it fell back to the earth! Thus, I am saying “I do not think the myth of evolution is very good, because it does not explain the actual observable movement of the contient of Greenland.” Look! – it’s right in the paragraph above, just as it stated by Popper! So is Popper really laughing? I think not. The THEORY OF EVOLUTION IS HEREBY TESTED – AND IT IS PROVEN TO BE FALSE! It is itself, a myth, referred to in those terms by Popper, fully proven to be in error, and in that regard there is scant need to write anymore along these lines!
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Evolution is simply, not true! Just because you and an entire squad of other “evolutionists,” from nearly every corner of the world, go out and about, applying that loosely fitted system of logic to everything you can find, imagine, or see, that doesn’t make it true! Popper puts it exactly in the same context, (quote) “the growth of the theories of science should not be considered as the result of the collection or accumulation of observations.”
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It is interesting then, that you choose to stay with the dogma of evolution. Bad decision. The entire theory of evolution has been proven to be wrong by the map of Greenland and the ancient Greenland basin. And please don’t accuse me of not using mathematics. I did use mathematics! And I measured it! I held my index finger over the area where Greenland had moved, and using that as a rough measuring instrument, when I held that same finger next to the distance scale on the National Geographic Atlas, it immediately told me that the continent had bounded along on one edge – over a distance of about three hundred miles! AND THE MOVEMENT OF GREENLAND COMPLETELY DEVESTATES EVOLUTION! That is exactly why I posted a picture of it on this web site, on March 17th, 2004, with the title of “Greenland Proves Evolution Is False.”
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The real truth is, as it turns out, the biggest myth believers are the evolutionists. They have entangled the geologists, and so many in the sciences today that they take on the sound and appearance, just as Voltaire once described himself, as “nothing but a parrot at whom other parrots chattered.”
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It is evident that you and many like you are obviously NOT WILLING to be at all scientific. You dare not use Greenland as a test - because this one crucial case drops the bottom out of everthing there is or has been supposed by evolutionists. It touches on everthing which every every evolutionist would expect their whole theory to hold fast – but it actually proves the fact that evoution cannot be true over such a vast period of time!
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THE VERY FACT THAT GREENLAND MOVED AS IT DID obviously proves that evolution is not true(!) and it never has been true regarding the long term evolutionist idea about there being extensively vast periods of time involved in the movement of the continents! Unfortunately there is nothing sufficently similar to such a test. Nothing at all exists in the case of instruments or rules of computation, nothing! Nothing, that is, unless you begin to look at the manner and at the supposed way that all the other continents have been said to have moved over millions and millions of years! In short, everyone knows that South America and Africa fit perfectly together and if ANYONE CAN LOOK AT A MAP AND THEY SIMPLY SEE THAT all of Greenland “popped up and slammed down” – then anyone and everyone can, and should(!) soundly reject the entire theory of evolution on this truly rational gounds, in that it is obviously FALSE, and this also means the entire basis of the geological time scale is completely in error! And if the basis of logic in support of the whole geological time scale is in error(!) - then it is only fitting and proper that one turns next to examine what has been proposed as explaining the movement of all the other continents!
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Notto, it is nothing to joke about. Popper said the same thing: “For instrumental purpose of practical application, a theory may continue to be used even after its refutation, within the limits of its applicability: an astronomer who believes that Newton’s theory has turned out to be false will not hesitate to apply its formalism within the limits of its applicability.”
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“We may sometimes be disappointed, (as I am very sure you are,) to find that the range of applicability of an instrument (in this case the instrument of evolution) is far smaller thatn we expected at first; but this does not make us disregard the instrument qua instrument – whether it is a theory or anything else. ON THE OTHER HAND A DISAPPOINT OF THIS KIND MEANS THAT WE HAVE OBTAINED NEW INFORMATION THROUGH REFUTING A THEORY – that theory which implied that the instrument was applicable over a wider range.”​

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I am also, to a large degree, certain that you did not read it, or you failed to find the message posted on March 17th. Read this and see what “map” you find here! In that post (in this same forum,) it is noted, the ancients explained in The Wisdom of Solomon that there are times when the whole spectrum of matter changes. If you will, perhaps you can explain how "water forgot it's quenching nature." That is, if YOU threw water on a fire, and instead of putting the fire out it only "added to the flames," how would you explain what that means?
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I would say, it has to mean that the hydrogen and the oxygen molecules did not absorb heat, as they usually do. That's a reasonable evaluation. In fact, I would say, the hydrogen and the oxygen atoms moved a little further apart than they normally are. Hence, once they moved further apart, when thrown upon a fire, then they even burned or even exploded in a flash! It was Popplar’s “thesis” that what we call “science’ is differentiated from the order myths not by being something distinct from a myth, but by being accompanied by a second-order tradition -
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If this concept or theory is true, it is probable that we would possibly even see fire among rain drops or even hail!
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Now, if this is true, then the whole basis of logic is in error or A MYTH, as regards the concept of the dynamic stability of the periodic table of the elements! What I mean by this is, everything may be solid as it is now, but IF THE CURRENT PHONOMENA IS A MERE MYTH - then there is also a state of matter that no body has ever taken into account!
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Or, you can put it another way, AS THE POLAR ICE CAPS MELT, THEY CONTINUE TO ALLOW THAT DAY TO MOVE CLOSER AND CLOSER, AND THEN A MASSIVE AND UNEXPECTED SHIFTING OF THE EARTH’S ORBITAL SPIN AND THE CRUST IS GOING TO TAKE PALCE! There will truly be a catastrophic effect invoving the entire planet that will follow -- once enough new matter from the mantle itself, is added to that of the current crust. I think it was Jack who quipped something to the effect that “we are all going on a tilt-a-whirl ride!” Just go to any Bible or any other text of that nature on the web, and do a search on "shaking," and you will see exactly what the "tilt-a-whirl" is going to generate! DON'T BE A CHICKEN. Look it up!

 

[Bruce D McKay Elijah]

I am going to post a photograph of what happens when new matter rapidly floods to the surface, afer being released from a highly compressed state in the mantle - where it is, in effect, able to freely combine with the otherwise stable matter of the earth's crust. There is a real transfer of energy of a sort, that no man has ever previously realized as being present, or available. Keep posted to this web page. I will get the photograph up as soon as I can.
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That enegy, would obviously be, the bond altering energy of compression. The super compressed matter, in other words, rapidly releases that energy, and if that is true it would transfer among the atoms in a process which moved through the gasses first, to the more firmer or harder element bonds, and in the final phases, to the water and oxygen bondings. The water molecules would end up taking up most of that energy, in that they are said to be among the most flexible of all bonds. Much of the surface will rapidly turn to mud or musch, as you will see. And there is another way for you to evaluate if this is ture or not. You can judge for yourself by the following:
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(This was burried in an early post. It is well worth repeating.) For one, The Wisdom of Solomon says that at the time of the Exodus, they were... "Persued by unusual rains and hairstorms and relentless showers, and utterly consumed by fire, FOR, STRANGEST OF ALL, ON THE WATER, WHICH QUENCHES EVERY THING, THE FIRE HAD THE GREATER EFFECT,"(Wis 16:17) "and again IT BLAZED UP IN THE MIDST OF THE WATER, WITH MORE THAN FIREY POWER,"(Wis 16:19.) "But SNOW AND ICE ENDURED WITOUT MELTING," ...(fire) Blazing in the hail, and flashing in the rain."(Wis 16:22) Now if these things truly happened(!) obviously the entire spectrum of matter was undergoing a change. Moreover, if all this is indeed true, it would of course it would of necessity be such a thing as to reach or bridge through the entire spectrum of matter and energy, all the way up to the level of microwaves and x-rays - passing through and/or otherwise including even the visible spectrum of light. On this, we must agree. If such a thing did happen, that is, if such a "theory" were indeed true, then that same energy would even have to "rock," the visible spectrum of light!
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Now if we agree on that, when we look at the details in the Wisdom of Solomon, I think it what they were referring to is just that - were it says they all became then, "Prisoners of darkness and captives of the long night!"(Wis 17:3) If I am not mistaken then, this fully explains what the ancients referred to as "a plague of darkness." Wrong? Let me put it this way... "no fire was strong enough to succeed in giving them light,"(Wis 16:5.) Well, you might ask, what about the light from the stars? With the whole area above them also abuzz with this kind of a release of energy, they reported "...nor could the bright flames of the stars undertake to illumine that hateful night!" And the wicked "died of fright! refusing to look even upon the air, which could not be escaped on any side."(Wis 17:10) "Driven by monstorus phantoms, and now paralyzed by their soul's surrender."(Wis 17:15) "For they were all bound with one chain of dakness."(Wis 17:17)
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So you can see, there isn't a map in sight, in terms of what is going to take place on a molecular basis, and so the whole geological time scale falls FLAT - simply because the molecular forces have been undertaking such a deviant turn with each new change in geology, (or that you speak of as a millions and millions of years in the process... ....geological age!) Moreover, any formulation of weight and energy spent, etc., would only be applicable to the matrix as we now experience it. Overall, such an approach as trying to caculate how much energy it would take to lift Greenland, can only be true under circumstances wherein matter remains within some given range of fixed focus. With there being a vast amount of energy pouring out, however, as mentioned earlier, it would of course rattle the very atmospheric contents, down to the thickest hardest rocks and ores. And yes, even Greenland would rattle under circumstances like these! And there was, a RAPIDLY progressing series of changs in the state of nature, is exactly what they heard... for it started as "a whistling wind," went to "a melodious sound of birds in spreading branches," to "the regular noise of rusing waters," and then the sounds of avalanches "or a harsh crashing of rocks thrown down." By the time it moved into the heaver clays and other strata, the whole place roared "like the running of bounding animals," and then, "the sound of the most savage beasts roaring!" All this also, with echoes, as if "thrown back (and forth) from a hollow in the mountains." And then "the whole world was bathed in bright light."(Wis 17:20)
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So Notto, here you can see at least a small piece of exactly what happenes at the close of one MASSIVE geological event, and the VERY RAPIDLY OCCURING START OF THE NEXT! Granted, you may thumb your nose at all this, and say "it just isn't so," while you claim all I do is look at a map! Please, all of this comes from a well perserved historic record, and it clearly states - "they deserved to be deprived of light and imprisoned in darkness."(Wis 18:4) MOREOVER, as I stated once before, I CAN EVEN PROVE TO YOU THAT THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS, NOT ONLY ON EARTH, BUT ON OTHER PLANETS AS WELL!
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Just look at what happens to water. We know that water is composed of atoms with both a positive and a negative charge. Obviously, if the right kind of energy were collected by the water molecules (as stated at the top of this brief report) if the energy level just kept on increasing and increasing, it could conceivably cause all the positive molecules to move in one direction, say to the left, and all the negative molecules would likewise, move to the right. Now let's look at this factor too. Such an extreme force could also change the shape of each water molecule, and the manner in which they bind together would also be spontaneously affected. In other words, if all this is true, then the water molecules might even stack up, rather than being so loosely associated. NOW IF YOU REALLY WANT TO SEE A MIRICALE this is the part where "the Lord said unto Moses, 'Wherefore criest thou unto me? Speak unto the children of Israel, that they go forward! But lift thou up thy rod, and stretch out thine hand over the sea, and divide it, and the children of Israel shall go on dry ground through the midst of the sea." Now there's a REAL MIRACLE for you! You can even see how it happened, and all the math in the world isn't going to even begin to touch it! "Thus, the Lord saved Israel that day out of the hand of the Egyptians!" (Ex 14:31)
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In that you and many others been taught that the overturning of the elements is a slow and stady process, only unfolding over millions upon millions of years, you are possibly also unaware that in the real world, "the traditions of many people persist that seas were torn apart and their water heaped high and thrown upon the continents."(Velikovsky, Immanuel, Worlds In Collision, Doubleday, pg 71.) The Chinese record "the sun did not go down for ten days, the world was in flames, and 'in their vast extent,' the waters 'over-topped the great heights, threatening the heavens with their floods.'" I would take this to mean, simply, that rather suddenly, the water molecules "stacked up." In Asia, "the water of the ocean was heaped up and cast upon the continent... ...a great tidal wave swept over the mountains and broke in the middle of the Chinese Empire."
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"The traditions of the people of Peru tell that for a period of time, equal to five days and five nights, the sun was not in the sky, and then the ocean left the shore and with a terrible din, broke over the continent; the entire surface of the earth was changed in this catastrophy."
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And while the geologists claim that the Grand Canyon in North America took millions of millions of years to be formed - "the Choctaw Indians of Oklahoma relate: "THE EARTH WAS PLUNGED INTO DARKNESS FOR A LONG TIME. FINALLY A BRIGHT LIGHT APPEARED IN THE NORTH, 'BUT IT WAS A (WALL 0F) MOUNTAIN-HIGH WAVES, COMING NEARER."(These quotes are also from Velikovsky, pg. 71 and 72.) So it is in the Septagint (translation of the Bible) that the water stood "as a wall," and the Koran, referring to this event says, "like mountains," and in the old rabbinical literature it is said that teh waters were suspended as if they were "glass, solid, and massive."
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Still don't believe it? Well, "the commentator Rashi, guided by the grammatical structure of the sentence in the Book of Exodus, explained with Mechilta: "THE WATERS OF ALL THEOCEANS AND SEAS WAS DIVIDED!" Still don't believe it! Well what do you think would happen, if something like this began to take place and it didn't somehow stop or get "turned off?" The answer the clear. The stacking would simply climb and climb, higher and higher, until the mass of it began to lift off from the very surface of the planet! Impossible? I think not. Just take a look at, Saturn and make a good note of what you see. Evidently, the same kind of thing happens, even on other planets.
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So this is why I believe all the geologists are wrong when it comes to evolution. The approach being used, like your math, is anchored in the physics of today, and such an approach is clearly full of holes and in error if the very state of nature moves through a rather sudden state of flux at the end of each age. Clearly, if the whole spectrum of matter changed, then so would any caculations, of necessity. And clearly, the events explain by the process of evolution, as taking millions and millions of years, all fall under this same heading. In other words I must most respectfully maintain, as I wrote in the opening lines, that your suggestion that I am "just looking at a map, etc" is a quite a bit distant from the real truth of the matter, and it falls way short of the mark.

Sincerely yours,


Bruce D. McKay, Elijah

 

[Data]

Um. Lol.

And all I am saying is that it is easy to see how the continent of Greenly once stood on end, and then backed up about 300 miles, and then IT EVEN TURNED from an eight o’clock position to a four o’clock position BEFORE it fell back to the earth!

 

[Bruce D McKay Elijah]

Before you were born, probably, in the year 1951 - I died and was taken up to heaven. You don't want to hear about all that. Fine. Then I was sent back - and after I returned, I refused to open a text book for the next five years. I adamantly told them all, "if it isn't going to get me back to heaven, I don't want it in my head." I am called an NDE'er. My real name is, as stated.
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Please don't call that being sick. I had been out of here, feely moving, seeing and being, in a whole different world. Sent back by God himself. Then I was forced to attend school and I flatly refused to be indoctrinated with the drivel and worldly junk, that curbes the mind and prevents it from seeing what is true. I have always studied the sciences, in terms of developing a complete epistemological view point. (You will find that word in a World Book Dictionary.)
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I was at a different school almost every year of my life, until age 16. In the seventh grade I attended a seventh grade center, and ended up being put into every class there, one by one. At the year's end, I had spent that year with seven different teachers. One teacher asked me to stand up in front of the entire class and explain to them, why, in the future, no one whould ever need to learn how to spell. I did, and I immediately perdicted the "marriage of TV and the electric typewriter" or what is now the computer. That was back in 1955, while living in Gulfport Mississippi. My seventh grade teacher, Mrs Allgood, was so insenced by it she would not let me return to her class, simpl because I had explained that one day, there would be such a machine, and it would check everyone's grammer and their spelling errors too. The other kids in the class wanted to know how soon it would be available. I was trying to figure out how long that would take, as they didn't find much interest in learning how to spell either, in all innocence, and that ended my being in Mrs. Allgood's class!
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The very next year I was plased in a class for "slow learners" and "special students" in Dallas Texas. It was the 8th grade. When they found out I was able to tell them anything they wanted to know, about anyone in the entire class after being there only two weeks, I was moved into the top, advance classes. I never lifted a pencil or opened a book, and I nevertheless passed. In 1957 I found about about Christ, prayed about it, asked the Lord if it was true or not, and I immediately became a Christian. That's another whole different story. That year, starting in the 9th grade, I began to study and do normal school work.
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I graduated from Sarasota High School in Sarasota Florida, in 1960, as an average student. I got into the IBM data processing courses, but was not accepted for placement, after a two year course. Quit school, sold yachts, got married, went back and finished my two year degree at Manatee Jr College, in Bradent Florida, in 1964. Went back to Florida State University after having been there for a while after the IBM courses didn't pan out. They had me take the entrance exams all over again and I was ranked 3rd in the entering class in the Biological Sciences. That is, I beat out an estimated 23,000 entering freshmen and at the time I had not been in a biology class in about six years. Gifted in the sciences. Began to study oncology and gene related diseases in the early 1970's. Evolution had always been a hobby of sorts. Only turned to it, when I was bored or need to have a change of pace. Prolific reader. Analysis, digest, study, break it down, (i.e., science.)
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Ah, yes... I am well. Yes, I am well. I see a world of souls, however, drownding in a sea of ignorance.
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I write what is in my heart and mind. I write because I have stood within inches of the Great Tree of Life. I write what I have found in such abundance in hope that it will set people free - and I have more or less made a life time study of these “traditions of men . . . and the rudiments of this world.” These phrases, you will hardly understand or know what they truly mean. Let me tell you. They each reflect upon both the Jewish traditions as well as the pagan learning! According to my Matthew Henry Study Bible, where the following details are found, “the Jews governed themselves by the traditions of their elders, and the rudiments or elements of the world, the rites and observances which were only preparatory and introductory to the 'gospel state.' The Gentiles mixed their maxims of philosophy with their Christian principles. Both alienated their minds from Christ." He writes, "Those who pin their faith on other men's sleeves have turned away from following after Christ. The deceivers were especially the Jewish teachers, who endeavored to keep up the law of Moses in conjunction with the gospel of Christ, but really in competition with it, and contradiction to it.“
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In brief, you guys have been duped. It was all a big game starting with the Lunar Club, and it was a throw off from the older "Secret Univesity" of Cromwell's time. That became the "Royal Society," so mixed with the trappings of the secret societies of that day, they say, you could'nt tell when one meeting ending and another began.
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The whole framework of logic is contrivance. When TH Huxley became the head of the sciences in England, he ran everything throgh his "X club." The member could not even agree upon a name, but they were all the presidents and secretaries of learned societies, "handpicked for their views, and holding personal influence on almost every famous scientists in the world, as well as on may distinguished radicals." (Taylor, Ian T., In the Minds of Men, TFE Publishing, 1987, page 189.)

"Neither Darwin nor Lyell were members, but theirviews were held in the very highest esteeem. The members MET FOR DINNER ALWAYS IMMEDIATELY BEFORE EACH MEETING OF THE ROYAL SOCIETY, at which time strategy was plotted. By this means British science was literally 'governed' from 1864 until 1994, by Huxley and his disciples, and with their combined influence over the scientific press..." (Taylor, pg 189)​

Any one who is a honest to god, true scientist, should truly recoil at even the very least of implications surrounding the very nature of such a design, that they would all but quit! Most - never find out, what THE FATHERS ACTUALLY DID!
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LYELL'S GEOLOGICAL COLUM WAS NOT ESTABLISHED DOGMA until a skull was found near Freiberg, Germany, in 1842. (Taylor, pg 102, 103) "The geological colum is a theoretical and abstract device, but NOWHERE on earth will there be found a series of rock strata representing every age name in the column..."
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"The age names such as Cambrian, with the subdivisions of upper, middle, and lower that are given to rock strata, depend then on the fossils found and have nothing to do with color, texture, chemical composition, or any other characteristic. For example, a laywer of limestone at one point, of shale at another, and of sandstone at a thrid might all be called Cretaceous and assigned an age of 130 milllion years or so if they all happen to contain the same index fossil."
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"The oder of the geologica ge names is, therefore, the supposed order of a set of index fossils, based on the assumed order of the evolution of life, while evidence of the evolution of life is then said to be shown by the order of index fossils. This is circular reasoning and can in no way be called science."
."the ages of the various [supposed\ geological eras were determined by a combination of guesswork and calculation. It was noticed, for example that a river deposited a sediment each year when in flood; by estimating the depth of sediment deposited in one year, and knowing the total depth of sediment by drillinga hole, the age of the river system could be calculated, [or so they thought.] this, however, was based on the assumption that the deposition rate had been uniform throughout the entire time. The assigned ages, particulary for the earlies forms of life, seem to have been put on a sliding scale that increases in direct proportion to our understanding of the complexities of the living cell. In Lyell's day, for example, the beginning of life was thought to have occurred about 200 million years ago, but this estimate has esclated to 2,000 million years, just ten times longer, which suggests that this is more speculation than science. Even the radiometric methods, considered by many to be foolproof independent checks, are themselves based on a number of critical assumptions that leave a certain amount of uncertainty to the whole idea of age names." (Taylor, pgs. 103 and 102.)
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So now - if you can swallow all that, and say . . . "are you sick?" And you still believe that evolution is in fact true, then may God bless your soul!

In closing, do you actually know what the phrase means, “philosophy and vain deceit.” When I first read it, I saw for the first time – why everyone is so often snared by the godless values of evolutionary concepts. A fellow who used the pen name of Matthew Henry wrote this, and he spent not one minute of his entire life, looking at any fossils and/or bones. He wrote, “There is a philosophy which is a noble exercise of our reasonable faculties, and highly serviceable to religion. (And) Such a study of the works of God, leads us to the knowledge of God and confirms our faith in Him. And there is a philosophy which is vain and deceitful, which is prejudicial to religion, and it sets up the Wisdom of man in competition with the wisdom of God. While it pleases men's fancies, it ruins their faith.” In other words, even while you may not know it - as to how it was done or why - I've found that the real truth is, you've been had.

Bruce D. McKay, Elijah

 

[Data]

 

[Bruce D McKay Elijah]

Voltaire first! Exactly right - even denied a chuch burial. That was because he totally disagreed with the whole system of religion. "When I looked round me, and within me," he wrote, "I conceived that something exists for all eternity; since there are beings who exist today, I concluded that there IS A BEING who is NECESSARY and NECESSARILY ETERNAL." So it was not that Voltaire did not believe in God. He saw men as ignorant - "I saw, heard and felt, and I was nothing but a parrot at whom other parrots chattered." Taking this into consideration, he thought all those in the clergy to be "arrogant!" "At the bottom of your heats you feel your nonentity as I render justice to mine," he wrote. "But you are arrogant enough to want people to embrace your vain systems; unable to be tyrants over our bodies, you claim to be tyrants over your souls." That's the kind of stuff that forbade him a church burial! The same quote is quite fitting, is it not, in regard to what THE FATHERS have done, in the process of setting up all the logical scams of evolution? It would be much the same thing as my saying to all the evolutionists, "you are so lost and/or so arrogant that you want people to embrace your vain systems of God less logic! Unable to be the tryants over our bodies, your design is to be tyrants over our souls." Now I didn't come out and say that, because I didn't want to insult anyone. I did, however, want them to hopefully understand what the net is, that has entrapped them! I blame it all on THE FATHERS. They obviously got carried away in the process of trying to put an end to the age of Kings, following the bloodbath of the French Revolution.
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As for Popper, he wrote what I quote! He sees science as myths with seven league boots, so to speak. He says every concept is a myth, but their is a second line of dialogue which purifies expression and clarifies, clarifies, clarifies. The evolutionists are so dead set against all myths that they have classified every story about the flood, from every nation, as being a myth or a mere fable. Since Popper thumps it, any of it, as a myth, then evolution must be a myth too - according to his own statements.
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Now comes the surprise! The evolutionist thinks what he has been taught, what he has learned, is PURE science and absolute truth. When their hero (Popper) is found to declare their sacred trust (evolution) as a myth, in keeping with every other scientific theory that was every spoken or proposed, it immediately takes the wind out of their sails! Moreover, if it is a myth, and it is according to Popper, that means all the evolutionists are the biggest myth believers, in the entire world! Logically then, for them to beat up or tear down all the other religious ideas about the ancient history of the planet, BECAUSE WHAT THEY KNOW IS FAR MORE INSIGHTFUL OR FAR BETTER, it readily brings the real issue to the fore! The real issue is, it is a myth - and they use everything about it to beat down every other belief, or every other belief system.
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If you go and get a book on the formal rules of logic however, look it up and you will find that the whole system of logic is invalid - if any one of the major premises contains a mention, note, or even an implied fraility concerning "infinity." Why? Because if any term of infinity is mixed in, then everything in that system of logic all flows back to the trunk, in a never ending "arbor-like manner." Now does that sound like something you've heard of before? I'll tell you what that is, and how it all works out, as I am sure you are well aware of the evolutionary tree of life! In other words, all that any "arbor-like" evolutionary tree actually means, is that the major premise has been in fact plouted or foiled(!) by the blaten open use of some factor of infinity, or the hidden application of, the same! When Charles Lyell saw that they were not going to beat down his concept of uniformitarinism, in that everything about it had been based on an immense period of time, that's when he decided to give up studying law anymore. That's when he decided to devote the rest of his life, to defending his supposedly true "theory of geology." He knew from the start, what was wrong with it, and he had in all probability picked it up from one of his professors in law school. They had told him, no argment is valid because it will only go on and on and on, if you never set down an exact time frame for what has happened or what is happening! Having learned how this was forbidden, in a court of law, Lyell had succeeded in making a quite profitable application of it, in terms of placing himself at the head of all the geological sciences! For this reason alone, I see him as "the wicket Prophet," that the scriptures claim, as emerging in the last days, to deceive the entire world.
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Thanks for your questions.

Bruce D McKay, Elijah

 

[Data]

It's just so nonsensical!

 

[davekinky]

Before you were born, probably, in the year 1951 - I died and was taken up to heaven. You don't want to hear about all that. Fine. Then I was sent back - and after I returned, I refused to open a text book for the next five years. I adamantly told them all, "if it isn't going to get me back to heaven, I don't want it in my head." I am called an NDE'er. My real name is, as stated.
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Please don't call that being sick. I had been out of here, feely moving, seeing and being, in a whole different world. Sent back by God himself.

Bruce D. McKay, Elijah

Wow! do you know almost the exact same thing happened to me?
I fought a long battle against a ferocious enemy and beat him at the cost of my own life!
I was buried but came back about 2 months later and there were 4 separate versions of me - and 1 turned out to be my clone! Then....
oh hold on
That was Superman, sorry

One word - drugz

 

[PhantomLlama]

Before you were born, probably, in the year 1951 - I died and was taken up to heaven. You don't want to hear about all that. Fine. Then I was sent back - and after I returned, I refused to open a text book for the next five years. I adamantly told them all, "if it isn't going to get me back to heaven, I don't want it in my head." I am called an NDE'er. My real name is, as stated.

You know, this paragraph explains a lot. Just not in the way you think.

One teacher asked me to stand up in front of the entire class and explain to them, why, in the future, no one whould ever need to learn how to spell. I did, and I immediately perdicted the "marriage of TV and the electric typewriter" or what is now the computer.

Except that the presence of the computer in no way removes the need to learn to spell. Spellcheckers do to an extent but a spellchecker could be made for a typewriter if needed.

 

[Peiper]

:rules:

I think that Bruce D McKay, Elijah is guilty of breaking at least three rules here:

5. Be willing to retire your conversation if one side or the other is getting exasperated.



6. 20 page discussions on massive generalized issues make for hard reading for beginners to get on board, so please limit your threads to talking about one issue, one point at a time.

:spam:

7. You will come in here with the attitude and mindset that you are not always right. Stonewallers, and trolls need not apply (and hence will be happily removed from the board). This includes people on both sides of the debate.

:troll: