Evolution is mathematically impossible

[OldWiseGuy]

But you refuse to do that with biology and evolution.

That ship has sailed for me.

 

[Queller]

That ship has sailed for me.

Yes, we know. You have decided that evolution is wrong without understanding anything about it. Ignorance is bliss as they say.

 

[Queller]

I have highly developed intuition.

Intuition is useless when it comes to science.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Intuition is useless when it comes to science.

Not totally. It almost amounts to an admission that one is wrong when they admit that that is what they relied on for their beliefs.

 

[bhsmte]

Worst idea ever

I have the impression, his intuition is tied to what is comfortable.

 

[bhsmte]

I have highly developed intuition.

Based on what?

You do appear to have highly developed defense mechanisms.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Not totally. It almost amounts to an admission that one is wrong when they admit that that is what they relied on for their beliefs.

My intuition is the result of experience. Without this "fools rush in".

 

[Subduction Zone]

My intuition is the result of experience. Without this "fools rush in".

It appears that you have not interpreted your experience properly, which leads to the end of your post applying to you. Why not try to learn at least the basics of science? You could easily learn the scientific method and the concept of evidence.

 

[pitabread]

I have highly developed intuition.

Intuition is great for things where you have to make quick decisions often with limited information.

It's not so great so areas where one is afforded more time and resources to perform careful reasoning and deduction. Especially given the cognitive biases that exist.

 

[the iconoclast]

Hey hey @Speedwell waiting on your reply, Good news and bad news. Bad news always first, @Subduction Zone has steered away from the discussion but i will try and get him back on track soon.

Good news is @In situ has decided to join our discussion check out his post and good news for me.

This is not a good definition since a) it is unclear what "impossible' referes to, and as such b) it might include non-random processes, e.g. pseudo-random algorithms.


A more precis definition is 'a process is random if it lacks a cause for any event'.

Hey hey @in stu

My dear, i do not know if you are aware but your reply helps my cause and you just put yourself in opposition to @Speedwell. I do not think you are aware of the material in this discussion.

Hey brother @Speedwell and brother @sfs, what do you think about this definition?

It might look similar to the above definition at a first glance but the difference is it excludes any form of hidden states which the above definition allows, i.e. the above definition includes determinstic processes which it is "impossible" to have sufficient knowledge about to predict the outcome. Such process might be called random for practical purposes but they are not random but rather a reflection of our current lack of knowledge.

Brother @speewell and brother @sfs, what do you think about this response? The man seems to disagree with you 2?

I find this claim doubtful. What if I design a deterministic process which emulate a random output, is this process random then?

Lets see, was there intention to design a deterministic process?

Do you have a source to the claim that the outcome determines if a process is random or not or is this something you concluded yourself?

Lets ask @sfs. What do think brother, is there?

Note: if there is detectable "patter" in a process then that process cannot be random. A random process is characterized by the lack of any pattern, i.e. the same thing as saying it is unpredictable.

Thank you so much for your input, i dont think you are aware of what you are doing but i applaud you for it.

You are now apart of our discussion, if you wanna go against me i recommend reading the whole discussion and find out what @sfs and @Speedwell are saying, so far your definition helps me.

Cheers you marvel

 

[the iconoclast]

I am sorry that you cannot understand a straight forward post. Your posts are extremely disjointed and all but unreadable.

Hey hey my dear

Please excuse my poor performance. I will try to be more coherent in the future.

In another thread you made a gross error and did not own up to it.

Please excuse me, i would love to remedy this and i am curious. What gross error do you refer to?

Tell me, why should I respond to someone that will not discuss the topic properly?

I do not know, you engaged me my dear and from what i can tell you are quite familiar with me - Im flattered you read my posts by the way.

Did you engage me to speak about your feelings? Why did you enegage me?

Please learn how to post properly. Try again.

Please excuse me, again...

In relation to your reply.
"if one wants to claim that such a hand exists the burden of proof is upon that person"

1. What kind of proof would you like?

2. How is evolution a natural event?

I think that should be clear enough. I got my mum to proof read it and she said it was c+ material. Anways your obviously quite intelligent - and smarter than me - so there should be no issue in replying to 2 questions that are clear and straight to the point.

Cheers

 

[the iconoclast]

What claims are you referring to?

Hey hey my friend ;p

I made the comment in reference to our discussion on "Do you think reading the bible is important?".

Youre lack of motivation and attention to detail was a disappointment. I found what you accused that cf member of was similar to my experience with you. You prefer to make statements rather than defend them.

What faith belief?


We should get clear first.


In regards to faith, i use the merriam webster definition,

Lets clear something up friend.




Lets use the miriam webster dictionary and throw in google answer to compare.



Miriam webster
Definition of faith

(Entry 1 of 2)

1a: allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTYlost faith in the company's president

b(1): fidelity to one's promises

(2): sincerity of intentionsacted in good faith

2a(1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God

(2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion

b(1): firm belief in something for which there is no proofclinging to the faith that her missing son would one day return

(2): complete trust

3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction

faith
verb
\ ˈfāth \
faithed; faithing; faiths

Definition of faith (Entry 2 of 2)
transitive verb

archaic
: BELIEVE, TRUST





From google.

faith
/feɪθ/
noun

1.
complete trust or confidence in someone or something.

2.
strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.





The google one sums up miriam webster quite well. Faith can be reduced to Trust, confidence or belief.

Lets examine your situation and my situation.

I gave you my testimony to which you replied cool. Consider my experience, would say i now have trust in God, confidence in God or belief in God?

When we consider your position and how much esteem you have for the conclusions of men and the scientific method, would you consider that trust, confidence or belief?

so my lack of belief in the christian god, has zero to do with faith a d everything to do with not having reliable/indepenent evidence to substantiate that specific belief.

This takes us back to a question you cannot answer. What proof do you expect? What proof do you need? What proof would satisfy your criteria?

Dont say already answered, if you did i wouldnt be asking. Dont be shy after all, im Christian... you atheists are right therefore your position should trump mine. Right?

I do have faith, i will win lotto one day though.

Would you say you trust that one day you will win the lotto, belief that you will or confidence that you will?

Cool story.

It was cool, i hope you too can experience something real!

Im curious, do you think im lying or what do you think about it?

 

[tas8831]

My intuition is the result of experience. Without this "fools rush in".

What does your gut tell you about the creation tale of humans? One tribal deity of ancient numerologists and mystics breahted into dirt and a fully formed adult human male popped out?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

What does your gut tell you about the creation tale of humans? One tribal deity of ancient numerologists and mystics breahted into dirt and a fully formed adult human male popped out?

It was the Supreme God of the Universe, and he followed by popping out a fully formed female. *

(*Worship is for God, not the female. )

 

[bhsmte]

Hey hey my friend ;p

I made the comment in reference to our discussion on "Do you think reading the bible is important?".

Youre lack of motivation and attention to detail was a disappointment. I found what you accused that cf member of was similar to my experience with you. You prefer to make statements rather than defend them.



Lets clear something up friend.




Lets use the miriam webster dictionary and throw in google answer to compare.



Miriam webster
Definition of faith

(Entry 1 of 2)

1a: allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTYlost faith in the company's president

b(1): fidelity to one's promises

(2): sincerity of intentionsacted in good faith

2a(1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God

(2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion

b(1): firm belief in something for which there is no proofclinging to the faith that her missing son would one day return

(2): complete trust

3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction

faith
verb
\ ˈfāth \
faithed; faithing; faiths

Definition of faith (Entry 2 of 2)
transitive verb

archaic
: BELIEVE, TRUST





From google.

faith
/feɪθ/
noun

1.
complete trust or confidence in someone or something.

2.
strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.





The google one sums up miriam webster quite well. Faith can be reduced to Trust, confidence or belief.

Lets examine your situation and my situation.

I gave you my testimony to which you replied cool. Consider my experience, would say i now have trust in God, confidence in God or belief in God?

When we consider your position and how much esteem you have for the conclusions of men and the scientific method, would you consider that trust, confidence or belief?




This takes us back to a question you cannot answer. What proof do you expect? What proof do you need? What proof would satisfy your criteria?

Dont say already answered, if you did i wouldnt be asking. Dont be shy after all, im Christian... you atheists are right therefore your position should trump mine. Right?





Would you say you trust that one day you will win the lotto, belief that you will or confidence that you will?



It was cool, i hope you too can experience something real!

Im curious, do you think im lying or what do you think about it?

Faith to me, is something that is personal and does not have independent outside evidence to support. That is how i use the term.

I dont need faith to trust or rely on science, because i enjoy the conveniences of science everyday (as do you) and the results keep producing the same results independent of my personal observations and are reliable.

You see, i dont need faith the light switch will turn the lights on when i flip the switch, because the is a proven track record of objective and reproducable results. I do need faith, that i will win lotto one day, because a reliable track record or objective evidence this will happen, is scant.

What evidence do i need? I have indicated this numerous times; the claim of a christian god and the attributes applied to this god, is a pretty amazing claim. For me to believe this is true, will require an equal amount of amazing evidence and i dont mean, stories written by anonymous authors, decades after the events claimed to have happened, personal claims by people who talk about their belief, threats that those who dont believe are doomed (quite childish the threats).

Humans have manufactered god claims for thousands of years, nothing new there. From a psychology standpoint, not difficult to see how some grab onto whatever god or religion that suits them, when they are presented with threats if they dont, and eternal life if they jump onboard. When we had little knowledge of the world, you can see how faith and religious beliefs would bring comfort.

Dont worry though, no matter what anyone else thinks, you are free to believe what you believe.

 

[sfs]

Brother @speewell and brother @sfs, what do you think about this response? The man seems to disagree with you 2?

I think the same thing I've told you before: if you want to discuss evolution, I'll be happy to do so. I have no interest in debating definitions of words -- especially not definitions of a word that I haven't even used here.

 

[tas8831]

It was the Supreme God of the Universe, and he followed by popping out a fully formed female.

And your super high IQ has not qualms about accepting that - with no evidence at all - at face value.

THIS is why creationists are dangerous.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

And your super high IQ has not qualms about accepting that - with no evidence at all - at face value.

I look at pretty much the same evidence that you look at. I just see creation with purposeful design. Why is that dangerous?

 

[bhsmte]

I look at pretty much the same evidence that you look at. I just see creation with purposeful design. Why is that dangerous?

It is only dangerous, if you are in a position of authority, that attempts to use the same, to influence others.

Besides that, believe as you will.

 

[pitabread]

My understanding has changed over time, but the source material hasn't.

The source material has changed though. This is why there are so many different religious beliefs both around the world today and throughout history.

Religious beliefs are not static. They change over time as cultures change.