Eric Holder: American Greatness never really existed

[PeachyKeane]

Crime is crime. It can be committed by anyone of any race. Yet you can have a disproportionate amount of crime committed by a certain race. Facts are stubborn things . Just like you can have illegal immigrants coming across the southern border. A disproportionate number of them are of a certain race. They are just facts man. Facts aren't racist or bigotted. Kids graduate high school. 84% of white kids graduate. 71% of Hispanic kids do. Those are facts.

Could it be there is a cultural issue at play? Is there not a Hispanic culture? Is there not an NDN culture?

I keep pointing out that I've lived through two very different socio-economic situations. In one I saw a lot of crime, in the other I didn't.

Is it possible, just possible, that certain types of crime are a symptom of economics, and not the amount of melanin in one's skin as you seem to attribute it to?

 

[rjs330]

I keep pointing out that I've lived through two very different socio-economic situations. In one I saw a lot of crime, in the other I didn't.

Is it possible, just possible, that certain types of crime are a symptom of economics, and not the amount of melanin in one's skin as you seem to attribute it to?

I don't believe color of skin decides whether a person is successful or not. But to deny there is culture is to turn a blind eye. People are now claiming there is "cultural appropriation". That's claiming culture. If one wishes to have culture one must accept there is good and bad in that culture.
Is it the color of skin alone that determines that black people graduate at a lower rate than white people? Of course not. Why is the graduation rate lower? Is it because of economic status. I am less well off therefore I can't graduate? Abuse in the NDN tribes is very high. Can we equate that being less well off makes them abuse each other? Do NDNs abuse each other simply because of the color if their skin? Ridiculous. My city hosts a Pow Wow every year. During that time the crime rate goes up and the police are busier. Theft, abuse and drug use goes up.

In my town our University has huge support for the Native American people. We have a whole department dedicated to the success of our Native American students. Yet we have very few despite the opportunities afforded to them. Why?
Why is it that we can have family housing where everyone there is pretty much on the same economic scale yet we have a disproportionate amount of abuse among the Native Americans?

Someone needs to wake up and smell the roses. Stop blaming economics for everything. Sure poor economics can make it more difficult. But they don't have to drive people to abuse, kill and be addicted. I grew up poor myself. We went once a year to by new clothes for me and my sister. I got one pair of new shoes a year. My Christmas presents contained mostly new socks and a new shirt. For my birthday I got one present and it wasn't an expensive one. My parents never took me to the doctor cause they couldn't afford it. But I did go to school and graduated.

There are factors of different kinds that come into play. If one deny's culture as being a significant one then one has their eyes closed. You cannot say that culture only provides good things. Bad things can also creep into a culture.

 

[PeachyKeane]

I don't believe color of skin decides whether a person is successful or not. But to deny there is culture is to turn a blind eye. People are now claiming there is "cultural appropriation". That's claiming culture. If one wishes to have culture one must accept there is good and bad in that culture.
Is it the color of skin alone that determines that black people graduate at a lower rate than white people? Of course not. Why is the graduation rate lower? Is it because of economic status. I am less well off therefore I can't graduate? Abuse in the NDN tribes is very high. Can we equate that being less well off makes them abuse each other? Do NDNs abuse each other simply because of the color if their skin? Ridiculous. My city hosts a Pow Wow every year. During that time the crime rate goes up and the police are busier. Theft, abuse and drug use goes up.

In my town our University has huge support for the Native American people. We have a whole department dedicated to the success of our Native American students. Yet we have very few despite the opportunities afforded to them. Why?
Why is it that we can have family housing where everyone there is pretty much on the same economic scale yet we have a disproportionate amount of abuse among the Native Americans?

Someone needs to wake up and smell the roses. Stop blaming economics for everything. Sure poor economakes it

I feel this was cut off. If not economics, and not race, what is it?

Do you think culture is affected more by economics or melanin?

 

[Kaon]

The former American “greatness” that Trump suppprters assert existed is either a myth or is a time that included segregation.

The people who cling to the romanticism are the ones who likely forget the latter part of your statement - quite conveniently.

 

[bhsmte]

Hey hey

Im having a similar problem with you. Whats with that?

What claims are you referring to?

 

[PreviouslySeeking...]

I don't believe color of skin decides whether a person is successful or not. But to deny there is culture is to turn a blind eye. People are now claiming there is "cultural appropriation". That's claiming culture. If one wishes to have culture one must accept there is good and bad in that culture.
Is it the color of skin alone that determines that black people graduate at a lower rate than white people? Of course not. Why is the graduation rate lower? Is it because of economic status. I am less well off therefore I can't graduate? Abuse in the NDN tribes is very high. Can we equate that being less well off makes them abuse each other? Do NDNs abuse each other simply because of the color if their skin? Ridiculous. My city hosts a Pow Wow every year. During that time the crime rate goes up and the police are busier. Theft, abuse and drug use goes up.

In my town our University has huge support for the Native American people. We have a whole department dedicated to the success of our Native American students. Yet we have very few despite the opportunities afforded to them. Why?
Why is it that we can have family housing where everyone there is pretty much on the same economic scale yet we have a disproportionate amount of abuse among the Native Americans?

Someone needs to wake up and smell the roses. Stop blaming economics for everything. Sure poor economics can make it more difficult. But they don't have to drive people to abuse, kill and be addicted. I grew up poor myself. We went once a year to by new clothes for me and my sister. I got one pair of new shoes a year. My Christmas presents contained mostly new socks and a new shirt. For my birthday I got one present and it wasn't an expensive one. My parents never took me to the doctor cause they couldn't afford it. But I did go to school and graduated.

There are factors of different kinds that come into play. If one deny's culture as being a significant one then one has their eyes closed. You cannot say that culture only provides good things. Bad things can also creep into a culture.

Quick question. This concept of "culture" you are discussing, is it created in a vacuum? Is it the result of both internal and external issues or just internal?

For example, African people from Ghana have a different culture from Black people from Georgia, US. Do you acknowledge that has to do with the both the peoples within the culture and external forces on those cultures since they diverged hundreds of years ago?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Especially when there is no one living who were abused by slavery. It's time to get past that. A lot of Americans died to end the slavery. It's time to be grateful. It's also time to be grateful to the people that cleaned up the Civil Rights and ended the nonsense of segregation. There's not a lot of people around that we're alive during the segregation period either.

There have been throughout history people that gave been conquered, enslaved starved and abused. Sometimes we just have to move past the past and quit living there. Especially when we weren't actually there to experience it ourselves.

True. Many people waste their lives, and opportunities, waiting for someone to right all the wrongs that have been done to their distant relatives.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Damage will always linger, when humans are abused.

You got that right (I still have these...tics).

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Damage will always linger, when humans are abused.

It does stay with you and it will haunt you.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

True. Many people waste their lives, and opportunities, waiting for someone to right all the wrongs that have been done to their distant relatives.

Many people dedicate their lives to social justice advocacy and diligently take a stand against various forms of discrimination (ageism, gender, sexual orientation, religious, racially or tribal related).

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Many people dedicate their lives to social justice advocacy and diligently take a stand against various forms of discrimination (ageism, gender, sexual orientation, religious, racially or tribal related).

This requires a closer look. Many victims become advocates, but remain mainly victims, thus adding to the problem instead of finding solutions. They then turn to the very people who are discriminating against them for solutions; asking the fox to protect the henhouse.

 

[rjs330]

I feel this was cut off. If not economics, and not race, what is it?

Do you think culture is affected more by economics or melanin?

Culture is what a group of people allow to be. For example the NDN. Each tribe had it's own culture of what that tribe allowed to be. Some we're far more warlike and that was their culture. Others were far more peaceful and that was theirs.

The culture in the south allowed slavery. The culture of the north did not.

Sometimes culture covers a large group of people. For example the Japanese culture highly values strong education over social experiences. In the US we value strong social experiences in the educational system more than the Japanese do. But not all Asians are the same In that regard.

So color of skin does not drive culture. If you are wondering if negative aspects of culture are driven by economics then I disagree. Culture is driven by choices not economics. One can still make good choices despite economics. Blaming economics for a negative allowance in a culture is a cop out.

 

[rjs330]

Quick question. This concept of "culture" you are discussing, is it created in a vacuum? Is it the result of both internal and external issues or just internal?

For example, African people from Ghana have a different culture from Black people from Georgia, US. Do you acknowledge that has to do with the both the peoples within the culture and external forces on those cultures since they diverged hundreds of years ago?

See post 332. I think it may answer your question.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Culture is what a group of people allow to be. For example the NDN. Each tribe had it's own culture of what that tribe allowed to be. Some we're far more warlike and that was their culture. Others were far more peaceful and that was theirs.

The culture in the south allowed slavery. The culture of the north did not.

Sometimes culture covers a large group of people. For example the Japanese culture highly values strong education over social experiences. In the US we value strong social experiences in the educational system more than the Japanese do. But not all Asians are the same In that regard.

So color of skin does not drive culture. If you are wondering if negative aspects of culture are driven by economics then I disagree. Culture is driven by choices not economics. One can still make good choices despite economics. Blaming economics for a negative allowance in a culture is a cop out.

There is much race-related culture.

 

[PeachyKeane]

Culture is what a group of people allow to be. For example the NDN. Each tribe had it's own culture of what that tribe allowed to be. Some we're far more warlike and that was their culture. Others were far more peaceful and that was theirs.

The culture in the south allowed slavery. The culture of the north did not.

Sometimes culture covers a large group of people. For example the Japanese culture highly values strong education over social experiences. In the US we value strong social experiences in the educational system more than the Japanese do. But not all Asians are the same In that regard.

So color of skin does not drive culture. If you are wondering if negative aspects of culture are driven by economics then I disagree. Culture is driven by choices not economics. One can still make good choices despite economics. Blaming economics for a negative allowance in a culture is a cop out.

Really? Do you think someone in a lower economic station has the same options as someone in a higher economic station?

By son grew up with a very different socio-economic station than I did. Do you think I had the same options as he has? The same number? Better or worse?

 

[PeachyKeane]

There is much race-related culture.

So does race determine culture?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

So does race determine culture?

Largely, yes. For example American blacks and Native Americans have a culture of victimhood. Latino women have a culture of obesity believing it makes them more attractive to men. This is not found among white or Asian women, with the possible exception of Hmong's. Asians have a cultural zeal for education unrivaled by other races.

 

[PeachyKeane]

Largely, yes. For example American blacks and Native Americans have a culture of victimhood. Latino women have a culture of obesity believing it makes them more attractive to men. This is not found among white or Asian women, with the possible exception of Hmong's. Asians have a cultural zeal for education unrivaled by other races.

When you say these things, what, in your mind, is the difference between race and culture? I'm curious why you have no observations on white people

Do you understand how and why this post is extremely racist? Do you maintain that you are not racist and that racism is bad?

 

[Shimokita]

Largely, yes. For example American blacks . . . have a culture of victimhood.

Some do, but by and large I think this is a misperception. What you have is black "leadership" that sells victimhood so that they can benefit from it. But this black "leadership" is essentially controlled by white liberals and not representative of the majority of black people in any significant sense. If you look at the attitudes of everyday black people I think you will find a wide range of attitudes, that generally tend to range more conservative than the average white American. There are large numbers of blacks on the ground who reject the "victimhood" or "integration" mentality and simply believe in "doing for self". You can find these attitudes going very far back, for example:

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Some do, but by and large I think this is a misperception. What you have is black "leadership" that sells victimhood so that they can benefit from it. But this black "leadership" is essentially controlled by white liberals and not representative of the majority of black people in any significant sense. If you look at the attitudes of everyday black people I think you will find a wide range of attitudes, that generally tend to range more conservative than the average white American. There are large numbers of blacks on the ground who reject the "victimhood" or "integration" mentality and simply believe in "doing for self". You can find these attitudes going very far back, for example:

The victimhood culture has sucked all the air out of the room.